Even more petty and vindictive behavior

#126
#126
Grand Vol said:
You refuse to have a discussion because you won't be able to refute my points?

We can have a discussion. By all means.

Exactly what have Democrats done over the last four years that have improved our standing internationally?
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no, I can’t have a SERIOUS discussion with anyone who thinks that Trump was anything but destructive.
 
#127
#127
clarksvol00 said:
I can see where you're coming from, but the feds started handing down conspiracy indictments for the Capitol riot today. One was to a leader of one of these militia groups. That means there was advanced planning. If you're affiliated with one of those groups you don't need to be working security at the inauguration a week after your beer buddies/brothers in arms planned an attack/infiltration/rowdy unauthorized tour of the Capitol.
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I read a couple articles about that and if the articles lay out all the Feds have it's a pretty weak conspiracy case.
 
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#129
#129
NorthDallas40 said:
Keep this idiot behavior up libs and you won’t get to chest thump on the “lol what militia can stand up to our military” dumbassery that gets routinely spouted here.

12 National Guard Members Removed From Inauguration Duty; 2 for ‘Inappropriate' Comments
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Guess these criminals are ok. Trump was correct again.

Gang Activity in the U.S. Military (thebalancecareers.com)

"Although most prevalent in the Army, the Army Reserves, and the National Guard, gang activity is pervasive throughout all branches of the military"
 
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#131
#131
clarksvol00 said:
I can see where you're coming from, but the feds started handing down conspiracy indictments for the Capitol riot today. One was to a leader of one of these militia groups. That means there was advanced planning. If you're affiliated with one of those groups you don't need to be working security at the inauguration a week after your beer buddies/brothers in arms planned an attack/infiltration/rowdy unauthorized tour of the Capitol.
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Anybody they caught inside the Fed building fine go ahead indict them. They are adults and responsible for their actions.

However questioning a soldiers integrity and professionalism with no actual proof of wrong doing is complete bull **** and wrong. Keep this crap up and the military will turn on them.
 
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#132
#132
Grand Vol said:
You understand the "conspiracy" charge normally is the biggest crock of **** in the criminal code?

It's impossible to prove. Plus, the prosecutors have already backed off several of the charges in the case like the "intent to kidnap and murder."

Your side of this equation needs to stop tapping the glass...
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@hog88

Just like breaking into the Capitol, conspiracy is a crime whether you think its a crock of s*** or not. All they have to prove is that a group of two or more people decided to commit a crime and then acted in furtherance of commission that crime. They don't even have to be successful at committing the crime.

If you watched what happened last week and didn't think there was going to be heavily beefed up security this week, I've got a bridge to sell you. In terms of looking into the backgrounds of the guard members, its not great optics, but if there's a potential there are proud boys or oath keepers in there that's a problem. Saying they shouldn't be there because the voted for Trump is a different story.
 
#133
#133
clarksvol00 said:
@hog88

Just like breaking into the Capitol, conspiracy is a crime whether you think its a crock of s*** or not. All they have to prove is that a group of two or more people decided to commit a crime and then acted in furtherance of commission that crime. They don't even have to be successful at committing the crime.

If you watched what happened last week and didn't think there was going to be heavily beefed up security this week, I've got a bridge to sell you. In terms of looking into the backgrounds of the guard members, its not great optics, but if there's a potential there are proud boys or oath keepers in there that's a problem. Saying they shouldn't be there because the voted for Trump is a different story.
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You really should stop carrying water on this dumbass based questioning of the NGs professionalism and integrity. It isn’t worth the effort
 
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#134
#134
NorthDallas40 said:
Anybody they caught inside the Fed building fine go ahead indict them. They are adults and responsible for their actions.

However questioning a soldiers integrity and professionalism with no actual proof of wrong doing is complete bull **** and wrong. Keep this crap up and the military will turn on them.
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If Trump were about to get inaugurated and there was concern antifa would storm the inauguration, I'd say any national guard members affiliated with antifa don't need to be there either. I just said in another post, I don't care who they voted for, but if they're part of a group that they may be guarding against, they need to sit this one out.
 
#136
#136
clarksvol00 said:
@hog88

Just like breaking into the Capitol, conspiracy is a crime whether you think its a crock of s*** or not. All they have to prove is that a group of two or more people decided to commit a crime and then acted in furtherance of commission that crime. They don't even have to be successful at committing the crime.

If you watched what happened last week and didn't think there was going to be heavily beefed up security this week, I've got a bridge to sell you. In terms of looking into the backgrounds of the guard members, its not great optics, but if there's a potential there are proud boys or oath keepers in there that's a problem. Saying they shouldn't be there because the voted for Trump is a different story.
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I think the .gov will have a hard time getting a jury to convict on conspiracy unless they have some rock solid evidence of them planning how and when to break into the capital building.
 
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#137
#137
clarksvol00 said:
If Trump were about to get inaugurated and there was concern antifa would storm the inauguration, I'd say any national guard members affiliated with antifa don't need to be there either. I just said in another post, I don't care who they voted for, but if they're part of a group that they may be guarding against, they need to sit this one out.
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I say that the military needs to do a better job of training if they are worried about soldiers not following legal orders.
 
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#138
#138
hog88 said:
I say that the military needs to do a better job of training if they are worried about soldiers not following legal orders.
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They are killing their recruitment efforts in half, if not more. Gonna make the militray seem chic wearing high heels. Biden will proclaim High Heels Up Day in the service.
 
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#139
#139
clarksvol00 said:
Hell, people have been carrying the water for the rioters for a week now and seem to think its worth the effort.
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If this were just a few years ago and the left doing it, the argument would be very different. All first amendment: if you can burn stuff in the name of free speech then you could break windows in the name of free speech. The !st amendment also has the part about (peaceably) assemble to petition the government. It seems like the location and how peaceable are fairly undefined, so where better than the Capitol than to assemble ... the government is there.
 
#140
#140
clarksvol00 said:
@hog88

Just like breaking into the Capitol, conspiracy is a crime whether you think its a crock of s*** or not. All they have to prove is that a group of two or more people decided to commit a crime and then acted in furtherance of commission that crime. They don't even have to be successful at committing the crime.

If you watched what happened last week and didn't think there was going to be heavily beefed up security this week, I've got a bridge to sell you. In terms of looking into the backgrounds of the guard members, its not great optics, but if there's a potential there are proud boys or oath keepers in there that's a problem. Saying they shouldn't be there because the voted for Trump is a different story.
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Two things. First, is the "furtherance" that tends to get real murky. You say "I'm going to storm the Capitol" and drive east on an Interstate, that can be construed as "furtherance." Which is impossible to prove and any night school lawyer worth a hootie darn could beat... obviously, LG is exempt from that rule.

Second, what is the issue with Oath Keepers? I'm curious to hear what you have to say on that matter.
 
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#141
#141
hog88 said:
I think the .gov will have a hard time getting a jury to convict on conspiracy unless they have some rock solid evidence of them planning how and when to break into the capital building.
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We'll see if the prosecutors have the goods. I don't pretend to know the ends and outs of it. If they've got text messages or internet chatter it will strengthen their case. The article I read (WSJ) referenced a video where 8 or 10 guys get together form up in a line and talk about sticking to the plan on a way into the Capitol. That plan could be a conspiracy even if the plan is just trespassing.
 
#142
#142
Grand Vol said:
Two things. First, is the "furtherance" that tends to get real murky. You say "I'm going to storm the Capitol" and drive east on an Interstate, that can be construed as "furtherance." Which is impossible to prove and any night school lawyer worth a hootie darn could beat... obviously, LG is exempt from that rule.

Second, what is the issue with Oath Keepers? I'm curious to hear what you have to say on that matter.
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I believe one of them was one of those indicted for conspiracy today.
 
#144
#144
hog88 said:
I say that the military needs to do a better job of training if they are worried about soldiers not following legal orders.
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And considering recent events in places like Ft Hood and gang problems - possibly related, a much much better job on screening recruits.
 
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#146
#146
AM64 said:
If this were just a few years ago and the left doing it, the argument would be very different. All first amendment: if you can burn stuff in the name of free speech then you could break windows in the name of free speech. The !st amendment also has the part about (peaceably) assemble to petition the government. It seems like the location and how peaceable are fairly undefined, so where better than the Capitol than to assemble ... the government is there.
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Carry that water.
 
#148
#148
clarksvol00 said:
We'll see if the prosecutors have the goods. I don't pretend to know the ends and outs of it. If they've got text messages or internet chatter it will strengthen their case. The article I read (WSJ) referenced a video where 8 or 10 guys get together form up in a line and talk about sticking to the plan on a way into the Capitol. That plan could be a conspiracy even if the plan is just trespassing.
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That plan would have to include specific mention of storming, breaking into the capital for it to be a conspiracy. Planing to go to DC and "raise some hell" isn't a conspiracy.
 
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#149
#149
Grand Vol said:
One. Now, what is wrong with the Oath Keeper organization?
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"Around eight to 10 people wearing helmets, reinforced vests and clothing with paraphernalia identifying themselves of the right-wing militia group Oath Keepers moved in a tactical fashion and forced their way to the front of the crowd, a video cited in the complaint shows."

Maybe they were antifa false flags.
 
#150
#150
AM64 said:
And considering recent events in places like Ft Hood and gang problems - possibly related, a much much better job on screening recruits.
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Gang membership can be beaten I mean trained out of recruits.
 
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