Expectations and Keys

[TennaciousD957]

If the "changes" you mention would result in more homeristic sheep cluttering the place with the typical "Brooce Purl is awsum. We woodn't have no baskitball if'n it weren't fer him" posts, you can be certain they won't be made. The reason this place has thrived is that it isn't a sheep pen.
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Maybe if you didn't think of every Vol Fan that actually likes the Vols as the TYPICAL "Brooce Purl is awsum" you could have a small ounce of respect for people that may happen to disagree with you. A strong sign of intelligence is not only the ability to form strong supported opinions (as you do) for your side of an argument, but also the ability to identify and respect support for the other side of the argument.

No one (well maybe some people, but not me) is asking for you to change your opinions, as you are completely entitled to them. The request is actually quite simple. Respect the other side of the argument as it also has its warrants.

 

[JZVOL]

Let's say Lofton and J. Smith's improvement was all about Pearl and his coaching.

Name one low post player who has developed a low post game under Pearl or a PG he has developed.

Why have T. Smith and Prince not improved as shooters? Have they lost interest like Childress did?

Why does Prince still not play D? Why does Chism still have games where he disappears or continually makes stupid fouls?

Why do we run a half court offense I ran in high school?

Listen, no one is saying Pearl hasn't been good for UT, but there are a lot of issues that seem to be ignored over the past couple of years.

 

[hatvol96]

Let's say Lofton and J. Smith's improvement was all about Pearl and his coaching.

Name one low post player who has developed a low post game under Pearl or a PG he has developed.

Why have T. Smith and Prince not improved as shooters? Have they lost interest like Childress did?

Why does Prince still not play D? Why does Chism still have games where he disappears or continually makes stupid fouls?

Why do we run a half court offense I ran in high school?

Listen, no one is saying Pearl hasn't been good for UT, but there are a lot of issues that seem to be ignored over the past couple of years.

Infidel. How dare you speak ill of our Macarena Games gold medal coach?
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[TennaciousD957]

Let's say Lofton and J. Smith's improvement was all about Pearl and his coaching.

Name one low post player who has developed a low post game under Pearl or a PG he has developed.

Why have T. Smith and Prince not improved as shooters? Have they lost interest like Childress did?

Why does Prince still not play D? Why does Chism still have games where he disappears or continually makes stupid fouls?

Why do we run a half court offense I ran in high school?

Listen, no one is saying Pearl hasn't been good for UT, but there are a lot of issues that seem to be ignored over the past couple of years.

The truth of the matter is all of these issues have at least some degree of merit, especially based on last years performance. I am pretty sure that Tyler, JP, and Wayne are still on the team right? We all are looking for improvements and development in their games. If they do not develop at all past last year as individuals or as a team then this year will another disappointment. If they do, however, then we are in for a good year.

The surprising part of this argument to me is that anyone can deny that Lofton, JuJuan, Bradshaw, CJ Watson, etc did not develop at all with Bruce as the coach. If there was absolutely zero development of these players under Bruce as is so eloquently stated an infinite amount of times on this site, then how did the team go from 14-17 to 22-8 to 24-11 to 31-5. What is black magic or some form of hypnosis?

 

[utvolpj]

how could Bruce develop JaJuan and Lofton into great shooters but fail to do it for any other player at UT since?

 

[TennaciousD957]

Infidel. How dare you speak ill of our Macarena Games gold medal coach?
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Outstanding breakdown argument. Really it is the details that make it stand out. It's an interesting approach to making your point stand up, but hey to each his own. Sometimes I try to mention points and counterpoints followed by lucid intelligent rhetoric, but that's just me.

 

[JZVOL]

The truth of the matter is all of these issues have at least some degree of merit, especially based on last years performance. I am pretty sure that Tyler, JP, and Wayne are still on the team right? We all are looking for improvements and development in their games. If they do not develop at all past last year as individuals or as a team then this year will another disappointment. If they do, however, then we are in for a good year.

The surprising part of this argument to me is that anyone can deny that Lofton, JuJuan, Bradshaw, CJ Watson, etc did not develop at all with Bruce as the coach. If there was absolutely zero development of these players under Bruce as is so eloquently stated an infinite amount of times on this site, then how did the team go from 14-17 to 22-8 to 24-11 to 31-5. What is black magic or some form of hypnosis?

I never said Bruce didn't help them, at all.

CJ was always solid at UT and Pearl didn't develop him.

I could easily make a case that Lofton and J. Smith getting better was the natural progression of guys getting older and gaining experience as you could say Pearl developed them.

Props to Bruce for finding a spot where Dane could make a difference! Still not sure how he developed though?

 

[JZVOL]

how could Bruce develop JaJuan and Lofton into great shooters but fail to do it for any other player at UT since?

That's what I don't get about that argument. Bruce helped JaJuan and Lofton become better shooters but Bradshaw and Howell got worse at shooting.

Fact is Lofton came to UT with the ability to shoot, and the way Lofton did it isn't coachable.

J. Smith was always a streaky shooter who was athletic and played good D, but did dumb things at times.

 

[hatvol96]

Sometimes I try to mention points and counterpoints followed by lucid intelligent rhetoric, but that's just me.

You try, but, like Bruce Pearl attempting to install a coherent halfcourt offense, you fail in a most miserable way.
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[BasketvolsFan]

Great shooters are born---not made. You can either shoot the ball or you can't shoot. These players improved in many other aspects of the game, but not in shooting. Lofton improved in driving to the basket and taking his man off the dribble, not as a shooter. Last years team had no one who could consistently hit the three---as weird as it seems, Chism may have been our best from outside.
Chism improved last year to answer Hat's question. Unfortunately, he is inconsistent and doesn't want to play inside where we need him. Williams improved, but is maxed out on his talent level. Hopson improved as the season went along, but hopefully will show much more improvement this year. Smith tried to do too much and his game suffered for it.
Last years team played more of a half court game, didn't press, and didn't do as well. Interesting that Pearl didn't play his style last year that many say doesn't work---played a more convential style and did his worst job at UT. Before the comments start, I fully agree that our half court offense left much to be desired.

 

[TennaciousD957]

I never said Bruce didn't help them, at all.

CJ was always solid at UT and Pearl didn't develop him.

I could easily make a case that Lofton and J. Smith getting better was the natural progression of guys getting older and gaining experience as you could say Pearl developed them.

Props to Bruce for finding a spot where Dane could make a difference! Still not sure how he developed though?

Bruce and CJ worked in the offseason to make him more agressive as a scorer and shooter as he always had to the potential but was very hesitant to take the big shot when it counted. CJ was always a steady lead guard and assist man, but in order to make him and the team more effective Bruce helped him DEVELOP the confidence and ability to be an excellent outside shooter when needed and more aggressive taking the ball to the rim. The improvement in the team the next year had a lot to do with that DEVELOPMENT and CJs career in the NBA (CJ has said this exact same thing over and over and over again in the media).

How is possible to argue the "natural progression of guys getting older" is the only reason Lofton and Smith improved. Of course both of those guys had fantastic internal motivation to get better. However unless you can see into the minds of Lofton and Smith or possibly have the omniscient abilities of a higher power, there is absolutely no possible way to either prove or disprove that statement. Did Lofton and Smith become better players from their Freshman to Senior years. The answer is yes and the most logical and level-headed reason is that with their fantastic internal motivation and Bruce and his assitant's coaching it happened.

Not mention is seems so easy to say while that Lofton and Smith simply naturally developed with age, this years team will not improve one iota when they are bringing back what? 7-8 players who are now, what? 1 year older. Even is Bruce is so awful at development our team should be better simply because of the "natural progression of guys getting older".

I could go into Dane, but seriously. He was a complete and total disaster of a player who was not worthy of scholarship for underwater basket weaving until Bruce came in. I mean come on. I guess those 2 Florida games where sealed the victories with amazing highlight reel plays was just pure dumb luck. I guess any old Joe could made those plays.

 

[JZVOL]

Great shooters are born---not made. You can either shoot the ball or you can't shoot. These players improved in many other aspects of the game, but not in shooting. Lofton improved in driving to the basket and taking his man off the dribble, not as a shooter. Last years team had no one who could consistently hit the three---as weird as it seems, Chism may have been our best from outside.
Chism improved last year to answer Hat's question. Unfortunately, he is inconsistent and doesn't want to play inside where we need him. Williams improved, but is maxed out on his talent level. Hopson improved as the season went along, but hopefully will show much more improvement this year. Smith tried to do too much and his game suffered for it.
Last years team played more of a half court game, didn't press, and didn't do as well. Interesting that Pearl didn't play his style last year that many say doesn't work---played a more convential style and did his worst job at UT. Before the comments start, I fully agree that our half court offense left much to be desired.

I don't really disagree with any of that.

I think the thing newer posters don't get sometimes is many posters around here can point out flaws of their team or coach and still be a huge fan.

 

[TennaciousD957]

You try, but, like Bruce Pearl attempting to install a coherent halfcourt offense, you fail in a most miserable way.
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Wow, you did it again Hat. Truly outstanding points. I am mesmerized by your ability to build a case, support it with solid detailed information and present is such a way as to not demean, but counter argue your opposition. Well done.

 

[Hardwood_fanatic]

I don't really disagree with any of that.

I think the thing newer posters don't get sometimes is many posters around here can point out flaws of their team or coach and still be a huge fan.

Righto. k:

Common sense is sometimes very uncommon.

 

[7thgroupvolfan]

If only we could put Dane Bradshaw's heart into our current players. The man had very little talent but, his drive and determination was impressive to watch.

 

[TennaciousD957]

I don't really disagree with any of that.

I think the thing newer posters don't get sometimes is many posters around here can point out flaws of their team or coach and still be a huge fan.

JZ you actually have a nice way expressing your opinion for sake of a good argument. I can appreciate that and love a good argument. Of course you have a right to your opinion and you may be correct. I am not trying to convince anyone to believe what I believe. I am simply building my side of the argument. In reality an argument should be an intelligent debate from two sides with differing opinions. Not 2 toddlers screaming at each other calling names because they both want the same toy. I prefer the latter and I can assume by your posts that you do to. However that does not seem to be the status quo by some of the most frequent posters.

In fact life would be no fun at all if everyone agreed on everything, but there are ways to discuss dissenting opinions with a little more class then brought to the table at this site.

 

[JZVOL]

JZ you actually have a nice way expressing your opinion for sake of a good argument. I can appreciate that and love a good argument. Of course you have a right to your opinion and you may be correct. I am not trying to convince anyone to believe what I believe. I am simply building my side of the argument. In reality an argument should be an intelligent debate from two sides with differing opinions. Not 2 toddlers screaming other calling names because they both want the same toy. I prefer the latter and I can assume by your posts that you do to. However that does not seem to be the status quo by some of the most frequent posters.

I get that.

I've gotten into it with hat over plenty of things and at least he is always a consistent arse (and I actually mean that in a good way), so I wouldn't take it personal.

BPV is a good guy as well but I guess he can rub people the wrong way.

The thing is once you get a feel for certain people it won't be as big of a deal. After awhile it becomes funny and you can just roll with it.

 

[hatvol96]

JZ you actually have a nice way expressing your opinion for sake of a good argument. I can appreciate that and love a good argument. Of course you have a right to your opinion and you may be correct. I am not trying to convince anyone to believe what I believe. I am simply building my side of the argument. In reality an argument should be an intelligent debate from two sides with differing opinions. Not 2 toddlers screaming other calling names because they both want the same toy. I prefer the latter and I can assume by your posts that you do to. However that does not seem to be the status quo by some of the most frequent posters.

When the pro Pearl sycophants come up with something better than "Hee's a hole lot bettur then Buzz Petursun," I'll consider actual debate. Until then, I'll just continue to ridicule them for supporting a guy who thinks a family vacation/vanity piece is more important than doing the job he's paid handsomely to do.
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[TennaciousD957]

When the pro Pearl sycophants come up with something better than "Hee's a hole lot bettur then Buzz Petursun," I'll consider actual debate. Until then, I'll just continue to ridicule them for supporting a guy who thinks a family vacation/vanity piece is more important than doing the job he's paid handsomely to do.
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Herein lies my problem. Of course it is a (relatively) free country as you have the right to do whatever you choose, especially when it comes to your message board behavior. I have been around this board for many years now (however only joined in 2008) and have obviously just decided to post my thoughts.

Your basketball information is a fantastic, needed addition to this site, which without it would be lacking.
However the blind assertion that if you like Bruce as a coach or hold out optimism that the team will improve this year instantly makes you a "Hee's a hole lot bettur then Buzz Petursun" fan that leaves something to be desired.

It is very easy to ridicule the masses of uninformed, but much less enjoyable and worthwhile then legitimate conversation and debate. Simply let the masses be "donkeys", but let them do it anonymity and ease up on the ears (or eyes) for the rest of us. Then we can all have a little actual debate and basketball discussion on this board instead of having to filter through 15 tanning bed posts to get to the 2 that actually contain a spec of basketball info.

 

[hatvol96]

However the blind assertion that if you like Bruce as a coach or hold out optimism that the team will improve this year instantly makes you a "Hee's a hole lot bettur then Buzz Petursun" fan that leaves something to be desired.

How is it a blind assertion? Look at the vast majority of posts that follow anytime someone dares to have the temerity to question Saint Bruce. It's all about "Would u rathur have Buzzz bak?" or "He's bettur than Waid Hustun or Jerry Green." Thus, I treat them accordingly.
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[sk vol]

From a team perspective, the defense has remained pathetic, shooting has dropped like a stone, offense remains disorganized until late in the play clock, ft shooting is hideous, our best players still no show or mail it in far too often.
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I see this as the key to the season. This might be the captain obvious in me talking, but the mental toughness of last year's team was disappointing. As the season went on last year, the Vols could not finish in close games. We saw the same team not close out Memphis in Knoxville that we saw against Oklahoma State.

Pearl will have to be the leader this year as the play and body language of the seniors on this team was not that of leaders during last season. My feeling on Pearl is he put it on cruise control. He admitted that he took his foot off the gas and babied them to an extent. If he pushes this team, there are probably five more wins on the schedule compared to last year. It does not hurt that this year's schedule is easier than last year. Those five wins should account for a better seed, which gives the Vols a better chance to advance in the post-season tournaments.

 

[TennaciousD957]

How is it a blind assertion? Look at the vast majority of posts that follow anytime someone dares to have the temerity to question Saint Bruce. It's all about "Would u rathur have Buzzz bak?" or "He's bettur than Waid Hustun or Jerry Green." Thus, I treat them accordingly.
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It is blind because because it applies to any dissenting opinion from yours. Not just the "Would u rathur have Buzzz bak?" or "He's bettur than Waid Hustun or Jerry Green" posters. Hey, you know what. You just keep doing what you do, but a measuring stick of intelligence is the quality of the argument AND the quality of the opponent you choose debate. Blasting every poster that says we may have a good season casts a very wide net and you are not doing yourself any favors swimming with the schooling fish.

 

[TennaciousD957]

I see this as the key to the season. This might be the captain obvious in me talking, but the mental toughness of last year's team was disappointing. As the season went on last year, the Vols could not finish in close games. We saw the same team not close out Memphis in Knoxville that we saw against Oklahoma State.

Pearl will have to be the leader this year as the play and body language of the seniors on this team was not that of leaders during last season. My feeling on Pearl is he put it on cruise control. He admitted that he took his foot off the gas and babied them to an extent. If he pushes this team, there are probably five more wins on the schedule compared to last year. It does not hurt that this year's schedule is easier than last year. Those five wins should account for a better seed, which gives the Vols a better chance to advance in the post-season tournaments.

Your points of emphasis for this season are valid. Last years team definitely lacked mental toughness. In fact one could say if the coaching staff and/or players could add that one simple ingredient to the mix, then this years team (which is almost identical to last years +Goins, Hall, and McBee which will be role players at best) will be vastly improved compared to last year. IMO vast improvement would equal 26-29 wins and Sweet 16. Could we be a top 8 team over the course of the season? Not by talent and not over the long haul of the season, because as others have stated repeatedly teams such as UK, MSU, KANSAS, UNC have decided talent advantages. However we IMO have a decided talent advantage over the rest of the field and its the team that wins each of their individual games in the tourney that advance. IMO that gives a chance for a great season if said mental toughness is developed over this off season. Maybe we will be the exact same team this year as last, but some improvement could go a long way.

 

[emainvol]

A few of us care about the basketball team on here and are not so eaten up with jealousy of Bruce Pearl that we sound like idiots.

So, how did Bruce take it when he found out you called him a loser?

 

[hatvol96]

Your points of emphasis for this season are valid. Last years team definitely lacked mental toughness. In fact one could say if the coaching staff and/or players could add that one simple ingredient to the mix, then this years team (which is almost identical to last years +Goins, Hall, and McBee which will be role players at best) will be vastly improved compared to last year. IMO vast improvement would equal 26-29 wins and Sweet 16. Could we be a top 8 team over the course of the season? Not by talent and not over the long haul of the season, because as others have stated repeatedly teams such as UK, MSU, KANSAS, UNC have decided talent advantages. However we IMO have a decided talent advantage over the rest of the field and its the team that wins each of their individual games in the tourney that advance. IMO that gives a chance for a great season if said mental toughness is developed over this off season. Maybe we will be the exact same team this year as last, but some improvement could go a long way.

With the obvious exception of Kailin Lucas compared to the JUCO washouts we have at the point, how does Michigan State have a decided talent advantage over Tennessee?Posted via VolNation Mobile