Federal Indictment of Donald Trump

#8,329
#8,329
lawgator1 said:
Biden and Pence did not realize it. The docs were discovered inadvertently and immediately returned, very small in number.

Trump took FIFTEEN boxes of them (reports are some may be missing), knew he had them, knew the Archives and then the FBI were lawfully demanding they be returned. And he refused. Repeatedly.

Enormous difference.

Not that you care about that.
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Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.
 
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#8,332
#8,332
Biden 11/22

“We just have to demonstrate that he will not take power if he does run, making sure he — under legitimate efforts of our Constitution — does not become the next president again,” Biden said.
 
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#8,337
#8,337
OrangeBoro said:
Or defund the corrupt partisan FBI
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Or obey the law. He intentionally kept classified documents. He refused to turn them over despite being repeatedly asked to return them.
He lied about the documents. He shared some of the documents with other people, apparently. The FBI isn't responsible for the indictment.. A grand jury assessed the evidence--as compiled by the special prosecutor---and made the decision to indict. The FBI merely collected the documents.

Trump's corrupt and deeply dishonest, and has always thought he was above the law. No one is above the law.
 
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#8,338
#8,338
BreatheUT said:
This DOJ is transparently dirty. The same day as Burisma scandal is getting confirmed the Stasi comes out with this Trump indictment.
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What Burisma scandal? Has somebody been indicted for that yet? There is only one person who's dirty--the gangster.
 
#8,341
#8,341
lawgator1 said:
Biden immediately returned the documents when they were discovered. As did Pence.

Trump refused and obstructed return over and over and over again, when lawfully asked.


You guys keep leaving out that rather important difference.
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The claim is that NARA knew where the Trump documents were and just wanted them locked up at their place. On the other hand, nobody seemed to know about the biden documents, and they were missing for a far longer period of time with no accountability regarding who had access. Surely as a lawyer you can draw a comparison. The contents of one set of documents was known and the risk easily assessed, and the holder wasn't giving them up; the other set wasn't even known to be missing for years (allegedly), and there was no way of assessing the damage or risk. If you can't figure it out, think about cluelessly granting bail for a guy without ever considering or assessing whether he is a flight risk ... or known to drive people to suicide.
 
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#8,342
#8,342
K-town Vol Fan said:
Idk but I'd imagine there is a chain of command with classified material. If the Pentagon or whoever has no clue who is in possession of classified material, were ****ed.
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Duh. That's the big deal that nobody is talking about. You can do risk assessment and take corrective/protective measures when you know classified material is missing. Guess what you can't do if you don't even know it's missing. There should be some custodial types hanging from the rafters for not knowing what Pence, Biden, and probably others had/have ... obama is probably out in the backyard still burying his. If NARA is that incompetent, they have no business controlling classified materials.
 
#8,343
#8,343
lawgator1 said:
No idea of his personal role in selecting them. But we apparently are about to learn that he had a central, direct role, in refusing to return them.

I reiterate my question of the last 6 months.

Why? To me, that's the ultimate issue. If he has a legitimate reason this is far less serious to me. But given the circumstances it's just hard to imagine such a real reason.
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How about two reasons - one more or less bogus and the other real. "Important" people love biographies to be remembered and for the money book deals bring politicians these days. But you just gotta have the footnotes and references to back up the text. Remember a guy named Petraeus?

The other reason - dems have been after Trump's hide since before the walked into the WH - didn't even matter that they had to fabricate "facts". So if you are facing another impeachment or trial, it's a bird in the hand kind of thing with regard to documentation. Do you want what supports your case in your hands or are you just going to trust that the legal custodian didn't lose it is and will hand it over ... supposing at that point you have no security clearance to even access the records - even if you were the person who generated them in the first place. Consider the biden case and what it was like for congress to pry documentation out of the FBI's hands.
 
#8,344
#8,344
So now I guess the next object for right wing scorn will be the American judicial system. I'm sure if Trump is actually convicted you will all say it's a rigged system despite it being based on real evidence not some crap created out of thin air by Fox. And you'll say it even as you praise the system for locking up people you see as criminals.

What will you say if he is convicted and it is upheld by the Supreme Court, where 6 of the 9 are conservatives?

Guess it all depends on what side of the street you're standing on at the time.

As for me, I was an adult when Watergate went down and I can tell you that this is bad for the country. I hate to see it. But I am willing to wait and see the government's case.

Oh and all you guys wanting to defund the FBI, can't stop laughing. Weren't you the same people who hated on BLM for wanting to defund the police?
 
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#8,345
#8,345
turbovol said:
Or obey the law. He intentionally kept classified documents. He refused to turn them over despite being repeatedly asked to return them.
He lied about the documents. He shared some of the documents with other people, apparently. The FBI isn't responsible for the indictment.. A grand jury assessed the evidence--as compiled by the special prosecutor---and made the decision to indict. The FBI merely collected the documents.

Trump's corrupt and deeply dishonest, and has always thought he was above the law. No one is above the law.
Click to expand...

i0HE7l.gif


R.b87bcd6d4a71a4617839b32b0fda26f6
 
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#8,346
#8,346
turbovol said:
Or obey the law. He intentionally kept classified documents. He refused to turn them over despite being repeatedly asked to return them.
He lied about the documents. He shared some of the documents with other people, apparently. The FBI isn't responsible for the indictment.. A grand jury assessed the evidence--as compiled by the special prosecutor---and made the decision to indict. The FBI merely collected the documents.

Trump's corrupt and deeply dishonest, and has always thought he was above the law. No one is above the law.
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If only your zeal extended to Democrats who also break the law.
 
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#8,347
#8,347
turbovol said:
Trump's dirty: It's too bad MAGA are too dumb and biased to acknowledge it.
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He is. So is Biden. Democrats such as yourself are just as insanely stupid in your staunch defense of a corrupt man. You are exactly the same as those you lambast. It almost amuses me to watch you belittle Trumpers because you might as well be belittling yourself. You're the exact same, just to a different egomaniac.
 
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#8,348
WBO said:
So now I guess the next object for right wing scorn will be the American judicial system. I'm sure if Trump is actually convicted you will all say it's a rigged system despite it being based on real evidence not some crap created out of thin air by Fox. And you'll say it even as you praise the system for locking up people you see as criminals.

What will you say if he is convicted and it is upheld by the Supreme Court, where 6 of the 9 are conservatives?

Guess it all depends on what side of the street you're standing on at the time.

As for me, I was an adult when Watergate went down and I can tell you that this is bad for the country. I hate to see it. But I am willing to wait and see the government's case.

Oh and all you guys wanting to defund the FBI, can't stop laughing. Weren't you the same people who hated on BLM for wanting to defund the police?
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When they only pursue one side, it is a rigged system. I'm all for enforcing the law and sending Trump to jail as long as Hillary, Biden, and every other politician who broke the same laws get prosecuted. But that's not going to happen. What is happening is Trump is being singled out for political reasons, not legal ones. Did he break laws? Absolutely. Did Hillary Clinton break laws? Absolutely. Was she prosecuted? Nope. Did Joe Biden break laws? Absolutely. Will he be prosecuted? Nope. Even Pence broke the law, but they have no interest in prosecuting him ATM. It'll be interesting to see if that changes if he somehow becomes a serious threat in the election.

The problem is the law is being selective based on politics. And make no mistake, that is a problem. I can't say enough bad things about Trump, he's arrogant, he's an egomaniac, and he's a garbage human being. It's easy to say he deserves this. But we're ignoring that many more deserve this as well, but are protected by their political allegiances. The law shouldn't be selective based on politics, but we're allowing it to be used that way.
 
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#8,349
#8,349
Weezer said:
When they only pursue one side, it is a rigged system. I'm all for enforcing the law and sending Trump to jail as long as Hillary, Biden, and every other politician who broke the same laws get prosecuted. But that's not going to happen. What is happening is Trump is being singled out for political reasons, not legal ones. Did he break laws? Absolutely. Did Hillary Clinton break laws? Absolutely. Was she prosecuted? Nope. Did Joe Biden break laws? Absolutely. Will he be prosecuted? Nope. Even Pence broke the law, but they have no interest in prosecuting him ATM. It'll be interesting to see if that changes if he somehow becomes a serious threat in the election.

The problem is the law is being selective based on politics. And make no mistake, that is a problem. I can't say enough bad things about Trump, he's arrogant, he's an egomaniac, and he's a garbage human being. It's easy to say he deserves this. But we're ignoring that many more deserve this as well, but are protected by their political allegiances. The law shouldn't be selective based on politics, but we're allowing it to be used that way.
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I agree a lot with this post. To believe it’s only “one side” that is somehow always in the wrong is just blind partisanship. Hillary wasn’t President. She didn’t have any protections for holding classified materials. I encourage people to read Comey’s statement from July 2016. (Statement by FBI Director James B. Comey on the Investigation of Secretary Hillary Clinton’s Use of a Personal E-Mail System — FBI). The sheer number of items they found and where some of those classified items wound up is amazing. Yet this is what he concluded….
“To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now.
As a result, although the Department of Justice makes final decisions on matters like this, we are expressing to Justice our view that no charges are appropriate in this case.”

So, like @Weezer, I’m just looking for consistency. Set a standard and apply it equally. To me, and a large number of Americans, that is not what we’re seeing.
 
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#8,350
#8,350
Weezer said:
When they only pursue one side, it is a rigged system. I'm all for enforcing the law and sending Trump to jail as long as Hillary, Biden, and every other politician who broke the same laws get prosecuted. But that's not going to happen. What is happening is Trump is being singled out for political reasons, not legal ones. Did he break laws? Absolutely. Did Hillary Clinton break laws? Absolutely. Was she prosecuted? Nope. Did Joe Biden break laws? Absolutely. Will he be prosecuted? Nope. Even Pence broke the law, but they have no interest in prosecuting him ATM. It'll be interesting to see if that changes if he somehow becomes a serious threat in the election.

The problem is the law is being selective based on politics. And make no mistake, that is a problem. I can't say enough bad things about Trump, he's arrogant, he's an egomaniac, and he's a garbage human being. It's easy to say he deserves this. But we're ignoring that many more deserve this as well, but are protected by their political allegiances. The law shouldn't be selective based on politics, but we're allowing it to be used that way.
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Please tell me the criminal statutes Biden has violated. And don't try saying there is anything equivalency between Biden and Pence mishandling classified docs versus Trump purposely hiding docs after being told he had to turn them over. Plus the docs Pence and Biden had were apparently not of the same level of sensitivity. Stories are also coming out about Trump actually showing the docs to visitors that he wanted to impress.

You fail to mention the Bush family. They are the poster children for the so-called Deep State. If there is a Deep State, Dick Cheney is its leader. But you guys never want to talk about that. The Navy use to fly HW's mistress (she was in State Department) around so Barbara wouldn't find out they were getting together.
 
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