'24 FL CB Cai Bates (FSU Commit)

[Orangeburst]

As we have already witnessed both positively and negatively, staff continuity is very important
If Heupel wants to retain him, just who are we to question?

 

[sjt18]

The overall hero worship of an average Martinez on this board is baffling.

He's a good DB coach. But what huge impact are you looking for from a DB coach? He needs to teach skills, get along with the players, and recruit. If there is any kind of hero worship it is far less than those who overestimate his actual impact compared to Banks.

 

[AllThingsTN]

The overall hero worship of an average Martinez on this board is baffling.

I don’t know one way or the other. But it’s not like he’s had a bunch of studs to work with. We were starting walk-ons last year…

 

[MarcoVol]

As we have already witnessed both positively and negatively, staff continuity is very important
If Heupel wants to retain him, just who are we to question?

So you don’t think posters on a message board know what’s best for the program vs a HC who won 10 regular season games in Y2 including FL, Bama, and LSU on the road?

 

[BelieveTheHeup93]

He's a good DB coach. But what huge impact are you looking for from a DB coach? He needs to teach skills, get along with the players, and recruit. If there is any kind of hero worship it is far less than those who overestimate his actual impact compared to Banks.

I think Banks gets the benefit of the doubt because of the game he called against Pitt, LSU, and Kentucky. He called a lot of phenomenal pressures those games. He also made some bad calls against Diet USC. Particularly bad coverages. I don’t think we know yet if some of those bad coverages were because he was doing the best with what he had to work with or if he was just making horrible calls. We should have a much better idea this season what kind of defensive team we’ll be moving forward though

 

[sjt18]

I think Banks gets the benefit of the doubt because of the game he called against Pitt, LSU, and Kentucky. He called a lot of phenomenal pressures those games. He also made some bad calls against Diet USC. Particularly bad coverages. I don’t think we know yet if some of those bad coverages were because he was doing the best with what he had to work with or if he was just making horrible calls. We should have a much better idea this season what kind of defensive team we’ll be moving forward though

I can give him a pass on USCe. But he has been inconsistent outside of that game. Some is talent and depth.

All I can say is that I'm not ready to "buy" Banks yet. The O and O staff... I'm gungho. Still have doubts about the DC. Not writing him off and respect that Heupel seems to like him... I just want to see the D perform at a high level with consistency.

 

[BelieveTheHeup93]

I can give him a pass on USCe. But he has been inconsistent outside of that game. Some is talent and depth.

All I can say is that I'm not ready to "buy" Banks yet. The O and O staff... I'm gungho. Still have doubts about the DC. Not writing him off and respect that Heupel seems to like him... I just want to see the D perform at a high level with consistency.

In a passing oriented game it’s hard to have a consistent defense when your corners can’t cover

 

[sjt18]

In a passing oriented game it’s hard to have a consistent defense when your corners can’t cover

OTOH, it is difficult to cover if your schemes and playcalling put you at a disadvantage too often. Could be one. Could be the other. Very likely a combination of the two.

I'm not ready at all to throw the players under the bus.

 

[BelieveTheHeup93]

OTOH, it is difficult to cover if your schemes and playcalling put you at a disadvantage too often. Could be one. Could be the other. Very likely a combination of the two.

I'm not ready at all to throw the players under the bus.

I think when they can get pressure with 4-5 instead of having to send the star or safety that they should be better in coverage

 

[sjt18]

I think when they can get pressure with 4-5 instead of having to send the star or safety that they should be better in coverage

Playing the devil's advocate... I saw times when they seemed to be smothering receivers and times when the whole secondary looked lost. Getting pressure with 4 will definitely help. There could be other things though. Like the CB recruits/transfer in the past cycle though. Hopeful they can help.

Maybe an overlooked issue is the inadequacy of UT's OLs in coverage last year.

But again, that's why I'm not fixed on it being a player problem rather than a scheme/coaching issue.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

OTOH, it is difficult to cover if your schemes and playcalling put you at a disadvantage too often. Could be one. Could be the other. Very likely a combination of the two.

I'm not ready at all to throw the players under the bus.

I'm with you there

It felt to me like our DB's were way more effective when they were allowed to be aggressive. Sure they'd get burnt, but it made it easier for them to make plays. That zone is just not it, especially since Slaughter and Walker were the only ones who could tackle. Losing Burrell hurt us when it came to tackling as well.

Hard to give up on them when we saw four solid games from them against some of the best teams in the country (Pitt, LSU, UK and Clemson)

With the amount of experience we have back there someone is bound to step up and most of them have shown flashes

I hate to say this, but our defense got much better with Trevon Flowers moving on. That's no secret to you or most people obviously. Walker + McCullough is way more effective than Flowers and McCullough and I think we saw that immediately.

Flowers goes out of the lineup and boom 56-0 against Vandy and then 31-14 against Clemson. Our safety play has maybe hurt us more than anything and I have some suspicions that as soon as McCullough is sent to the bench we will see a similar net gain. Its truly puzzling why those two got so many reps. They arent always bad, but there was no real reason Walker should have played so few snaps all year.

It'll be interesting to see if Turrentine or someone can take Jaylens spot or Martinez will just continue to be stubborn about it.

 

[sjt18]

I'm with you there

It felt to me like our DB's were way more effective when they were allowed to be aggressive. Sure they'd get burnt, but it made it easier for them to make plays. That zone is just not it, especially since Slaughter and Walker were the only ones who could tackle. Losing Burrell hurt us when it came to tackling as well.

Hard to give up on them when we saw four solid games from them against some of the best teams in the country (Pitt, LSU, UK and Clemson)

With the amount of experience we have back there someone is bound to step up and most of them have shown flashes

I hate to say this, but our defense got much better with Trevon Flowers moving on. That's no secret to you or most people obviously. Walker + McCullough is way more effective than Flowers and McCullough and I think we saw that immediately.

Flowers goes out of the lineup and boom 56-0 against Vandy and then 31-14 against Clemson. Our safety play has maybe hurt us more than anything and I have some suspicions that as soon as McCullough is sent to the bench we will see a similar net gain. Its truly puzzling why those two got so many reps. They arent always bad, but there was no real reason Walker should have played so few snaps all year.

It'll be interesting to see if Turrentine or someone can take Jaylens spot or Martinez will just continue to be stubborn about it.

IMHO, Martinez recommends. Banks and Heupel make the decision.

TBH, Christian Charles is my guy for filling that other spot @ safety if someone dislodges McCullough. I believe it really screwed with him to have to play CB. Turnage could be that guy. Slaughter could still be rotated back if some of the guys come along at CB.

I believe there is enough talent to build a very good secondary now. If it doesn't improve... I may end up pointing at the coaches even more.

 

[bigl3327]

Alontae and Theo flourished during their one year under Martinez. 2022 saw our DB room decimated during the spring and summer and riddled with injuries all fall. It's hard to fairly judge a coach under those circumstances.

 

[SweetasSoda]

There’s no need to torture yourself about firing a coach before the season even starts. CJH is paid to make the decisions, and he is not going to ask for your opinion. Why make yourself miserable worrying about something you have no control over? At least wait until the end of the season when something may be done. I don’t understand!

 

[jvols1999]

Certainly acting like he’s coming here. Let’s see.

What makes you say that?

 

[KnoxToTheBoro93]

I can give him a pass on USCe. But he has been inconsistent outside of that game. Some is talent and depth.

All I can say is that I'm not ready to "buy" Banks yet. The O and O staff... I'm gungho. Still have doubts about the DC. Not writing him off and respect that Heupel seems to like him... I just want to see the D perform at a high level with consistency.

I like your takes but I’m higher on banks than you I think the overall jump from the defense last year was very good from year 2 I think heup transforming the offense to number 1 puts unfair criticism on banks… talent n depth was questionable and he was still learning strengths and weaknesses… I think the clemson game is the turning point… I think banks will match Heup’s aggression and blitz early n often that seems to be the best recipe for us… may give up a few more big plays but will create much more negative plays… I think Beasley has an AA type season… we will see though this is the money year for banks.

 

[butchna]

I'm with you there

It felt to me like our DB's were way more effective when they were allowed to be aggressive. Sure they'd get burnt, but it made it easier for them to make plays. That zone is just not it, especially since Slaughter and Walker were the only ones who could tackle. Losing Burrell hurt us when it came to tackling as well.

Hard to give up on them when we saw four solid games from them against some of the best teams in the country (Pitt, LSU, UK and Clemson)

With the amount of experience we have back there someone is bound to step up and most of them have shown flashes

I hate to say this, but our defense got much better with Trevon Flowers moving on. That's no secret to you or most people obviously. Walker + McCullough is way more effective than Flowers and McCullough and I think we saw that immediately.

Flowers goes out of the lineup and boom 56-0 against Vandy and then 31-14 against Clemson. Our safety play has maybe hurt us more than anything and I have some suspicions that as soon as McCullough is sent to the bench we will see a similar net gain. Its truly puzzling why those two got so many reps. They arent always bad, but there was no real reason Walker should have played so few snaps all year.

It'll be interesting to see if Turrentine or someone can take Jaylens spot or Martinez will just continue to be stubborn about it.

Won’t argue with that take. I’ve been patient as a fan with both Banks and Martinez. If anything makes me question that stance, it’s misplaced loyalty/trust in veteran players. Always been an advocate of playing your damn talent. Playing it safe and getting burnt anyway is an exercise in futility.

 

[NighthawkVol]

I think a lot of it is based on his past successes earlier in his career and the fact that he’s a recognized name by this fanbase. Recruits seem to love him though and Alonte Taylor speaks highly of him. I personally don’t think he’s a very good developer of talent. Both Moseley and Sutton didn’t improve all that much under him and our secondary hasn’t improved much during his current run. My biggest issue though was how he went about rebuilding our secondary through the portal in 2022. Instead of going after corners in the portal he moved a couple of safeties to corner and just added more safeties. Our DB recruiting seems to have improved significantly. So hopefully we can at least be a middle of the pack pass defense this year and then once the guys he actually recruited are on their 2nd and 3rd year on campus we can really start to see something that resembles an SEC championship caliber secondary

I’m not here to claim Martinez is a great coach or anything, but Sutton and Moseley absolutely improved under him. Moseley was a 135 lb QB in high school who WM scouted and projected as a CB. It took him forever to put on enough weight. But he made it to the NFL. Sutton improved too.

 

[thunder5]

IMHO, Martinez recommends. Banks and Heupel make the decision.

TBH, Christian Charles is my guy for filling that other spot @ safety if someone dislodges McCullough. I believe it really screwed with him to have to play CB. Turnage could be that guy. Slaughter could still be rotated back if some of the guys come along at CB.

I believe there is enough talent to build a very good secondary now. If it doesn't improve... I may end up pointing at the coaches even more.

Charles IMO…IF he can stay healthy…I think he and Walker will be a massive upgrade over what we’ve had the past two years…

I’m with you and others that I haven’t been able to say players or scheme up to this point…that changes this year…I believe (like you) that they have plenty of talent now…if they’re still bad then it’s clearly scheme IMO

 

[thunder5]

There’s no need to torture yourself about firing a coach before the season even starts. CJH is paid to make the decisions, and he is not going to ask for your opinion. Why make yourself miserable worrying about something you have no control over? At least wait until the end of the season when something may be done. I don’t understand!

True…but what else do we discuss during the “football purgatory” time of the year

I will say it speaks volumes IMO that Martinez is the only coach that didn’t get a raise this year

 

[NighthawkVol]

Charles IMO…IF he can stay healthy…I think he and Walker will be a massive upgrade over what we’ve had the past two years…

I’m with you and others that I haven’t been able to say players or scheme up to this point…that changes this year…I believe (like you) that they have plenty of talent now…if they’re still bad then it’s clearly scheme IMO

Everyone in the secondary having off-season surgery and missing spring practice (as well as many missing summer and fall) really stunted that group’s development. We’ll see how improved they are now. I believe they had an excuse last year. Not this year.

 

[StoVol]

Won’t argue with that take. I’ve been patient as a fan with both Banks and Martinez. If anything makes me question that stance, it’s misplaced loyalty/trust in veteran players. Always been an advocate of playing your damn talent. Playing it safe and getting burnt anyway is an exercise in futility.

TANK sucks is how id put it
But yes i agree

 

[RockyTop411]

Still feel good about Cai Bates?

Lean Vols right now. Family taking some time to process things together around the holiday. Late July decision still seems most likely

-Matt Ray

 

[wokawoka55]

I came to read about Bates and there’s all this talk about Martinez. What happened? Glad Bates is still leaning toward us. I think a decision before the season starts is better for us.

 

[SweetasSoda]

True…but what else do we discuss during the “football purgatory” time of the year

I will say it speaks volumes IMO that Martinez is the only coach that didn’t get a raise this year

Yeah, so that suggests it will take care of itself. And I prefer to think about what good could happen instead of pronouncing doom which has happened the last two offseasons. Obviously that’s just me though.