'24 FL CB Cai Bates (FSU Commit)

#2,004
#2,004
BigOrangeTrain said:
So Martinez gets credit for a SR Taylor getting drafted? You putting Martinez name together with Garner is hilarious. Garner has actually improved his unit since he has been here. Martinez has not.
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Was Taylor going to be drafted in the second round before Martinez arrived?

It’s not really hilarious when you actually research players drafted. I love Rodney Garner, but no one cares what the actual research shows.

Tim Banks coaches the safeties and calls the plays.
 
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#2,005
#2,005
mr.checkerboards said:
Gibson has mostly played on ST and only played corner when injuries forced him in the lineup or we are up big.

Hobbs has pretty much only played in the blowout games.

So neither have gotten anything really meaningful.
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Again, what freshmen were you going to start? The complexities of the college game does not allow all freshmen to play. Yall don't see practices, so you just assume that freshmen are ready to play and are better than upperclassmen.
 
#2,006
#2,006
titansvolsfaninga said:
Again, what freshmen were you going to start? The complexities of the college game does not allow all freshmen to play. Yall don't see practices, so you just assume that freshmen are ready to play and are better than upperclassmen.
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Yeah I'd rather have Freshmen who are more athletic and physically gifted out there. Every body in the secondary could've been replaced, minus Hadden(post Florida) and the results would've stayed the same.
 
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#2,007
#2,007
mr.checkerboards said:
Yeah I'd rather have Freshmen who are more athletic and physically gifted out there. Every body in the secondary could've been replaced, minus Hadden(post Florida) and the results would've stayed the same.
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So, if the results were not changed, why put them out there to risk energy or delay in development. Honestly, at this level the players are all athletic. As we saw, Herring was not ready to be a full time starter at MLB as a sophomore, but you all think freshmen are ready. Injuries forced him into starting. Playing all freshmen, may have had us losing another game or 2.
 
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#2,008
#2,008
titansvolsfaninga said:
So, if the results were not changed, why put them out there to risk energy or delay in development. Honestly, at this level the players are all athletic. As we saw, Herring was not ready to be a full time starter at MLB as a sophomore, but you all think freshmen are ready. Injuries forced him into starting. Playing all freshmen, may have had us losing another game or 2.
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No it wouldn't have. Putting them out there gives them valuable experience that helps in the long run.
Herring just isn't good, if it wasn't for his brother he wouldn't even be in Knoxville.
 
#2,009
#2,009
mr.checkerboards said:
No it wouldn't have. Putting them out there gives them valuable experience that helps in the long run.
Herring just isn't good, if it wasn't for his brother he wouldn't even be in Knoxville.
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So next year, you will be calling for the next batch of freshmen to start because you will bad mouth the freshmen you demanded be started this year for not being developed. It's like you can't wrap your head around freshmen not being physically and mentally ready to play at a high level. Both Offense and Defense are complicated to play. Everyone can't do it. For every freshman that does it, there are 10 or so that can't.
 
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#2,010
#2,010
titansvolsfaninga said:
So next year, you will be calling for the next batch of freshmen to start because you will bad mouth the freshmen you demanded be started this year for not being developed. It's like you can't wrap your head around freshmen not being physically and mentally ready to play at a high level. Both Offense and Defense are complicated to play. Everyone can't do it. For every freshman that does it, there are 10 or so that can't.
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Depends on if they can play the position and look like the athletically belong out there or not.
 
#2,011
#2,011
BigOrangeTrain said:
So when our CBs suck who should get the blame then? When our secondary plays terrible who should we blame? I am genuinely curious. Because it’s obvious many will go to whatever lengths necessary to defend Martinez.
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The guy coaching with multiple safeties out and his best corner, who inherited Vandy level DB talent and was playing a walk on at slot the majority of the game? No.

I would blame this guy for being horrific at recruiting DBs
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#2,015
#2,015
titansvolsfaninga said:
So, if the results were not changed, why put them out there to risk energy or delay in development. Honestly, at this level the players are all athletic. As we saw, Herring was not ready to be a full time starter at MLB as a sophomore, but you all think freshmen are ready. Injuries forced him into starting. Playing all freshmen, may have had us losing another game or 2.
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Why are injuries always thrown our as an excuse for FR? Like FR are extremely fragile and/or upperclassmen are immune from injury. I’m unaware of the higher chances of getting injured as a FR trend/research.
 
#2,016
#2,016
Vol8188 said:
The guy coaching with multiple safeties out and his best corner, who inherited Vandy level DB talent and was playing a walk on at slot the majority of the game? No.

I would blame this guy for being horrific at recruiting DBs
View attachment 596900
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In JP’s defense, Tank was a 4* and has spent 3 years under this staff vs 2 under Pruitt. Same for Burrell. Slaughter was a 4* who spent one year under Pruitt. Tyus Fields was a 4* who transferred, Key Lawrence 4* who transferred, Charles has only played for this staff. Unless we’re saying Pruitt and the recruiting services missed on our DB’s rankings then some of it has to fall on development and/loss of would be upperclassman.
 
#2,017
#2,017
AthensVol2007 said:
In JP’s defense, Tank was a 4* and has spent 3 years under this staff vs 2 under Pruitt. Same for Burrell. Slaughter was a 4* who spent one year under Pruitt. Tyus Fields was a 4* who transferred, Key Lawrence 4* who transferred, Charles has only played for this staff. Unless we’re saying Pruitt and the recruiting services missed on our DB’s rankings then some of it has to fall on development and/loss of would be upperclassman.
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Sure, we have a few 4* guys. Everyone does. The point is we had less than everyone not named Vandy last season. Lawrence I'm assuming was one of the guys who had to transfer. Fields did nothing here under either staff (only one season under this staff) and has done next to nothing as a D3 guy. Slaughter was a 247 composite 3*

So you've really only got Tank of the guys you mentioned.

That's Vandy level bad.
 
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#2,019
#2,019
NighthawkVol said:
When they play poorly, Martinez should get the blame. When they play well, he gets credit. It’s not that hard.

The subject was Alontae Taylor. He improved under Martinez. To say otherwise smacks of agenda.
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I don’t think it’s that simple. Talent and scheme have to be considered. Hell even the Dline needs to be considered. Hadden looked really solid outside of one idiot play vs Florida. Hell the whole secondary looked “better”. Still not where I want them to be but whatever. My sole issue with Martinez is the player’s not getting their head around in coverage enough. A lot of the other is the scheme we’re in and that’s on Banks.

To be completely fair I still don’t think we have the players we need at every position and the depth we need. As long as Heupel and company keep improving in recruiting and performance I’m good with it. Offense regressed this year, I think the defense took a step forwards before injuries got us.
 
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#2,021
#2,021
AthensVol2007 said:
Why are injuries always thrown our as an excuse for FR? Like FR are extremely fragile and/or upperclassmen are immune from injury. I’m unaware of the higher chances of getting injured as a FR trend/research.
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That’s not what he said. He said injuries forced him to play. Meaning people ahead of him on the depth chart went down
 
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#2,022
#2,022
AthensVol2007 said:
Why are injuries always thrown our as an excuse for FR? Like FR are extremely fragile and/or upperclassmen are immune from injury. I’m unaware of the higher chances of getting injured as a FR trend/research.
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Physically they are not able to play against older and stronger people. It's not "rocket surgery". Also, when you're not sure what you're doing, you have a tendency to hesitate, which will increase chances of injury. Unfortunately, our fans that don't know football don't hesitate to write think pieces.
 
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#2,024
#2,024
AthensVol2007 said:
In JP’s defense, Tank was a 4* and has spent 3 years under this staff vs 2 under Pruitt. Same for Burrell. Slaughter was a 4* who spent one year under Pruitt. Tyus Fields was a 4* who transferred, Key Lawrence 4* who transferred, Charles has only played for this staff. Unless we’re saying Pruitt and the recruiting services missed on our DB’s rankings then some of it has to fall on development and/loss of would be upperclassman.
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Tank was a top 200 player. But Burrell was a composite 3 star and 66th at his position. Slaughter was a composite 3 star and 39th. McDonald was a 3 star. We really have had average talent in the secondary.
 
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#2,025
#2,025
DaddyChad said:
I don’t think it’s that simple. Talent and scheme have to be considered. Hell even the Dline needs to be considered. Hadden looked really solid outside of one idiot play vs Florida. Hell the whole secondary looked “better”. Still not where I want them to be but whatever. My sole issue with Martinez is the player’s not getting their head around in coverage enough. A lot of the other is the scheme we’re in and that’s on Banks.

To be completely fair I still don’t think we have the players we need at every position and the depth we need. As long as Heupel and company keep improving in recruiting and performance I’m good with it. Offense regressed this year, I think the defense took a step forwards before injuries got us.
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I agree with all of that. My comment was more in answering his question...everything he's done isn't bad, nor is it all good. It's more nuanced than that. But, regarding Alontae Taylor, who was the subject, it's hard not to see that he developed a lot his senior year, the only one under Martinez.

Theo Jackson, Taylor, Hadden all developed under Martinez. So has Tamarion McDonald, IMO. Turnage and Burrell seem to have either stayed the same or regressed.
 
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