Football and Capitalism...

#126
#126
droski said:
what a bunch of garbage. what about hte thousands of people benefiting from buying things at walmart 20% cheaper than they could before? that doesn't matter? the cost savings and sales tax benefits far outweighs any extremely minimal wage decreases for a couple of hundred people. what about the senior level high paying jobs walmart provides? do you realize how much money a walmart manager makes? if these workers deserved to be paid $20 an hour instead of $9 then they would be. end of story. don't believe hte bs your union puts out. and i love this theory that guys bagging groceries were making 60k a year before walmart moved in.
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Where did the workers work that are buying things cheaper at Wal Mart, oops, I meant "China Mart".

The local electronics store probably sold Phillips/Magnavox Tv's (built in Knoxville, TN) or RCA tv's Built in the USA. Wal Mart sells Sanyo, Gold Star, or Awisia all built in China so that worker who use to work at Phillips in Knoxville now doesn't have a job because Phillips can't compete against the 20% cheaper China tv's at Wal Mart and they shut down the tv factory.

Wal Mart is a master at convincing the public to sell it's soul to them. We buy inferior products from them because they are cheaper and in the process cut our own throats by not supporting the local merchants who support us. Instead of our money staying local and going back into the local economy it eft's off to somewhere else where it's benefit to the community it came from lacks.
 
#127
#127
droski said:
there is absolutely zero argument the law wasn't broken. i think violating 200 years of US bankruptcy law, the foundation of our economic system, is a egregious use of presidentail power. particurally since it directly benefited one of his most major campaign contributors. there is zero evidence of bush commiting war crimes. warentless wiretaps should be investigated. as should iran contra or any involvment in a presidential assisination. ANY time there is evidence a president does something which is not legal he should be investigated. end of story.
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How do we proceed?
 
#128
#128
alwaysorange81 said:
I think when we move from arguments of principle, to proposed statements of fact, I'll have to demand evidence. What you cannot believe is not actually the point of the discussion, but thanks for the contribution.
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these aren't complicated legal issues. there is no gray area. it's illegal. he only got away with it because he threatened the bondholders with a) demonizing them in the public, b) harrasment from the IRS, and c) told them they wouldn't get anything, if they sued.
 
#130
#130
CardassianVol said:
Yes. It is all a vast conspiracy to get our own economy to fail. I see.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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langtooncolor081810.jpg
 
#131
#131
KYSkipper said:
Where did the workers work that are buying things cheaper at Wal Mart, oops, I meant "China Mart".

The local electronics store probably sold Phillips/Magnavox Tv's (built in Knoxville, TN) or RCA tv's Built in the USA. Wal Mart sells Sanyo, Gold Star, or Awisia all built in China so that worker who use to work at Phillips in Knoxville now doesn't have a job because Phillips can't compete against the 20% cheaper China tv's at Wal Mart and they shut down the tv factory.

Wal Mart is a master at convincing the public to sell it's soul to them. We buy inferior products from them because they are cheaper and in the process cut our own throats by not supporting the local merchants who support us. Instead of our money staying local and going back into the local economy it eft's off to somewhere else where it's benefit to the community it came from lacks.
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right. let's go back to producing our own toasters. either they'll cost $200 or you have to take a 75% pay cut. your choice. but you are right. that low paying job is so much better than your current one where you don't actually "make something." my bad. and if walmarts products are so inferior why do we buy them? we are all stupid? the fact of the matter is the walmart model is more efficient. because of these efficiencies they can sell the SAME GOODS for less.
 
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#132
#132
droski said:
these aren't complicated legal issues. there is no gray area. it's illegal. he only got away with it because he threatened the bondholders with a) demonizing them in the public, b) harrasment from the IRS, and c) told them they wouldn't get anything, if they sued.
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So the President can count on your vote in 2012 yes?

It's good to smile sometimes.
 
#133
#133
KYSkipper said:
Where did the workers work that are buying things cheaper at Wal Mart, oops, I meant "China Mart".

The local electronics store probably sold Phillips/Magnavox Tv's (built in Knoxville, TN) or RCA tv's Built in the USA. Wal Mart sells Sanyo, Gold Star, or Awisia all built in China so that worker who use to work at Phillips in Knoxville now doesn't have a job because Phillips can't compete against the 20% cheaper China tv's at Wal Mart and they shut down the tv factory.

Wal Mart is a master at convincing the public to sell it's soul to them. We buy inferior products from them because they are cheaper and in the process cut our own throats by not supporting the local merchants who support us. Instead of our money staying local and going back into the local economy it eft's off to somewhere else where it's benefit to the community it came from lacks.
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Why blame Walmart solely for a problem they did not create? They simply capitalized on a trend that started long before Wal Mart became the giant it is. They saw were American manufacturing was going and seized on it.

Let's talk about these so called inferior import products, many of which have a much higher rate of satisfaction than similar American made products which are much more expensive? One of those reasons is the union influence in American manufacturing.

Why is this Wal Mart's fault when so much of the problem was self imposed by Americans to begin with?
 
#134
#134
alwaysorange81 said:
I think when we move from arguments of principle, to proposed statements of fact, I'll have to demand evidence. What you cannot believe is not actually the point of the discussion, but thanks for the contribution.
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Don't take my comments in a bubble. I don't need to restate what else has been said in this thread. I'm just surprised you would be so ambivolent of such an egregious intrusion into the private sector by this administration and usurp longstanding bankrupcy laws.
 
#135
#135
it's just fear of change kb5252. nothing more, nothing less. american history has been a process of us moving from lower paying more manufacturing jobs to higher paying service jobs. because of this movement we have the greatest economy in the world. making less things is a good thing. not a bad thing.
 
#136
#136
KYSkipper said:
Where did the workers work that are buying things cheaper at Wal Mart, oops, I meant "China Mart".

The local electronics store probably sold Phillips/Magnavox Tv's (built in Knoxville, TN) or RCA tv's Built in the USA. Wal Mart sells Sanyo, Gold Star, or Awisia all built in China so that worker who use to work at Phillips in Knoxville now doesn't have a job because Phillips can't compete against the 20% cheaper China tv's at Wal Mart and they shut down the tv factory.

Wal Mart is a master at convincing the public to sell it's soul to them. We buy inferior products from them because they are cheaper and in the process cut our own throats by not supporting the local merchants who support us. Instead of our money staying local and going back into the local economy it eft's off to somewhere else where it's benefit to the community it came from lacks.
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It's actually called specialization and trade. We get a better product at a better price and give them our food, or bombs, or whatever we're good at making.

Whats killing us right now is negative trade gap, which of course, Wal-Mart has little to do with. (Chinese currency manipulation and the like).

really simple economics...like 101.

My only beef with Wal-mart is the same as any other large company. I feel the workers and other stakeholders should see their returns improve relative to their contributions at an equal pace as that of management.
 
#137
#137
alwaysorange81 said:
I feel the workers and other stakeholders should see their returns improve relative to their contributions at an equal pace as that of management.
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first off walmart's managment doesn't make a lot of money. particurally compared to other fortune 50 companies. next isn't it the workers job to decide if they are being paid worthy of their contributions rather than the govts? i.e. what's to stop the walmart workers from finding a new job?
 
#138
#138
KYSkipper said:
The local electronics store probably sold Phillips/Magnavox Tv's (built in Knoxville, TN) or RCA tv's Built in the USA. Wal Mart sells Sanyo, Gold Star, or Awisia all built in China so that worker who use to work at Phillips in Knoxville now doesn't have a job because Phillips can't compete against the 20% cheaper China tv's at Wal Mart and they shut down the tv factory.
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Walmart.com: Electronics: TV & Video: TVs: All TVs

and any store marketing itself as a high-end one (or one without cheaper alternatives) shouldn't really be competing with Walmart
 
#139
#139
droski said:
first off walmart's managment doesn't make a lot of money. particurally compared to other fortune 50 companies. next isn't it the workers job to decide if they are being paid worthy of their contributions rather than the govts? i.e. what's to stop the walmart workers from finding a new job?
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The sheer numbers of workers must be counted as a disadvantage to them in terms of mobilization, and concerted effort. By the time a mass quit took effect half of them would have starved to death.

Certainly not the Govts job. I'm just not convinced that what a regional manager makes is commensurate with his / her worth in relation to that of a cashier.

In the end what you make is your business. Thats why I make more than a cashier.
 
#140
#140
alwaysorange81 said:
The sheer numbers of workers must be counted as a disadvantage to them in terms of mobilization, and concerted effort. By the time a mass quit took effect half of them would have starved to death.

Certainly not the Govts job. I'm just not convinced that what a regional manager makes is commensurate with his / her worth in relation to that of a cashier.

In the end what you make is your business. Thats why I make more than a cashier.
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huh? i'm talking about the individual worker. obviously walmart workers don't feel underpaid otherwise they would look for other employment and walmart would have a problem hiring people.

you make what the market bears. i don't think walmart is in the primary business of trying to make their execs rich.
 
#141
#141
funny how a discussion about capitalism always ends up being a discussion about Wal Mart
 
#142
#142
alwaysorange81 said:
I would also point out. If the law were broken here, the management of GM, the Union, and the Judge presiding the case would all be, at the least, complicit. Should they be indicted?
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"A leading bankruptcy attorney representing hedge funds and money managers told ABC News Saturday that Steve Rattner, the leader of the Obama administration's Auto Industry Task Force, threatened one of the firms, an investment bank, that if it continued to oppose the administration's Chrysler bankruptcy plan, the White House would use the White House press corps to destroy its reputation."

....

Perella Weinberg Partners, Lauria said, "was directly threatened by the White House and in essence compelled to withdraw its opposition to the deal under the threat that the full force of the White House press corps would destroy its reputation if it continued to fight. That’s how hard it is to stand on this side of the fence."

White House Denies Charge By Attorney that Administration Threatened to Destroy Investment Firm's Reputation* - Political Punch

This whole union bailouts should have been a much bigger issue at the time but people were still Obama crazy and the mainstream media barely touched it.

Gangsta government by team Obama.
 
#143
#143
vols4sure said:
"A leading bankruptcy attorney representing hedge funds and money managers told ABC News Saturday that Steve Rattner, the leader of the Obama administration's Auto Industry Task Force, threatened one of the firms, an investment bank, that if it continued to oppose the administration's Chrysler bankruptcy plan, the White House would use the White House press corps to destroy its reputation."

....

Perella Weinberg Partners, Lauria said, "was directly threatened by the White House and in essence compelled to withdraw its opposition to the deal under the threat that the full force of the White House press corps would destroy its reputation if it continued to fight. That’s how hard it is to stand on this side of the fence."

White House Denies Charge By Attorney that Administration Threatened to Destroy Investment Firm's Reputation* - Political Punch

This whole union bailouts should have been a much bigger issue at the time but people were still Obama crazy and the mainstream media barely touched it.

Gangsta government by team Obama.
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Shall I provide some of the countless accounts of government strongarm tactics compelling citizens to do as they're told from each and every administration in American history? What you describe here is not the first time it's happened (if it did happen like this). If we want to reform government then by all means, lets do it. But I can't get on board with a movement that only finds fault in the other side.
 
#145
#145
alwaysorange81 said:
Shall I provide some of the countless accounts of government strongarm tactics compelling citizens to do as they're told from each and every administration in American history? What you describe here is not the first time it's happened (if it did happen like this). If we want to reform government then by all means, lets do it. But I can't get on board with a movement that only finds fault in the other side.
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yes. please provide me a similar example from a prior administration that hasn't been investigated. much thanks.
 
#146
#146
droski said:
huh? i'm talking about the individual worker. obviously walmart workers don't feel underpaid otherwise they would look for other employment and walmart would have a problem hiring people.

you make what the market bears. i don't think walmart is in the primary business of trying to make their execs rich.
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I think that just because someone hasn't quit isn't evidence of their contentedness with their pay. Chinese sweatshop workers keep showing up so they must like it.

I do believe that executives would act in their own best interest. And since they direct the company, I have no problem in believing they would act in such a way to increase their own incomes. I would furthermore, seriously doubt that they would act in a similar manner on behalf of employees (not that they should). But I think blind protectionism of Wal-Mart is as unreasonable as wild fantasies about nefarious Wal-Mart money making plots.
 
#148
#148
alwaysorange81 said:
I think that just because someone hasn't quit isn't evidence of their contentedness with their pay. Chinese sweatshop workers keep showing up so they must like it.

I do believe that politicians would act in their own best interest. And since they direct the gov't, I have no problem in believing they would act in such a way to increase their own incomes. I would furthermore, seriously doubt that they would act in a similar manner on behalf of constituents (not that they should). But I think blind protectionism of gov't is as unreasonable as wild fantasies about nefarious gov't money making plots.
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FYP!

:hi:
 
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