Fraudulent Christians

#276
#276
Rasputin_Vol said:
I thought the 10% referred to 10% of crops & livestock to help support the Levites in Jerusalem since they didn't have any land?
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During the barter system part of their society this would definitely have been correct.

But as they moved away from this into a currency phase using anatolian coins or the shekel it was modified by their society and culture.

I will say though your statement does pose a problem though as tithing of money is never mentioned in the bible, only goods.

I just dont know how someone could even tithe straight goods to a church in modern times and the church stay open due to the worlds current monetary system.
 
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#277
#277
NEO said:
During the barter system part of their society this would definitely have been correct.

But as they moved away from this into a currency phase using anatolian coins or the shekel it was modified by their society and culture.

I will say though your statement does pose a problem though as tithing of money is never mentioned in the bible, only goods.

I just dont know how someone could even tithe straight goods to a church in modern times and the church stay open due to the worlds current monetary system.
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I understand the following to mean if for some reason you need to keep all of your goods, you can give money instead, but 12%.

Leviticus 27:30-31

30 ‘Thus all the tithe of the land, of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s; it is holy to the Lord. 31 If, therefore, a man wishes to redeem part of his tithe, he shall add to it one-fifth of it.

The point is to give back some of what he has given. You either understand it or you don't. If you believe in God and you want to barter that with him at judgment, have at it.

I'm using "you" in general.
 
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#278
#278
Rickyvol77 said:
The institution of marriage was created as a religious ceremony
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It has also been used by multiple religions and the state. Just cause one group thought it up doesn't mean they have exclusive rights to it. Being married under the laws of the state and being married under the laws of a religion can be two different things.
 
#279
#279
USMC-TNVOL said:
The issue with saying everything shouldn’t be taken literal means everything is questionable in the Bible then.

If laws shouldn’t apply to illegals, then there’s no issue treating them like slaves then?

Our Freedom of speech is based on the idea from the Greeks before Christianity. Christians in Europe stamped that out (in regards to religion at least) once it became a dominating force. Our country was not founded on Christian principles and not all the founding fathers believed in religion.
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I think interpreting the Bible is difficult. And I don't pretend to have all the answers, I think what's important is accepting Jesus. As far as illegals. I think your misunderstanding what I'm saying as well as using the term slave a bit too freely. Illegals are not physically compelled to work somewhere in this country. The migrants in the countries I was speaking of sometimes are. The biggest thing illegals face is a lack of labor regulation. I don't see how you are turning that into slavery. The United States was undoubtedly founded partially on Judeo-Christian values. You can be a non Christian and still acknowledge the value of some of the teachings.
 
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#280
#280
Behr said:
I understand the following to mean if for some reason you need to keep all of your goods, you can give money instead, but 12%.

Leviticus 27:30-31

30 ‘Thus all the tithe of the land, of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s; it is holy to the Lord. 31 If, therefore, a man wishes to redeem part of his tithe, he shall add to it one-fifth of it.

The point is to give back some of what he has given. You either understand it or you don't. If you believe in God and you want to barter that with him at judgment, have at it.

I'm using "you" in general.
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I personally view that my entire bank account belongs to God, not a church, but God.

I think anyone who is a Christian should be giving to charities and the church and do as much to help people as possible.

For some that may mean less than 1 percent. For some that may mean 25 percent.
 
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#281
#281
NEO said:
I personally view that my entire bank account belongs to God, not a church, but God.

I think anyone who is a Christian should be giving to charities and the church and do as much to help people as possible.

For some that may mean less than 1 percent. For some that may mean 25 percent.
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My bad, I should have been more specific. My post was in reference to this...

I will say though your statement does pose a problem though as tithing of money is never mentioned in the bible, only goods.
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#282
#282
Behr said:
My bad, I should have been more specific. My post was in reference to this...
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It does pose an issue as onky once was money mentioned and it was it duet I believe where goods were flipped for money then back to goods before tithing.

Maybe it was Matthew though. Going off memory.

Now this could be because society was highly a barter system back then.

At the end of the dsy though I just dont think it matters as it's a heart thing.

My comment simply was though that someone who is legalistic could prescribe to food and goods only and have a strong case.

Did this post clarify anything on my end or just more me rambling lol?
 
#283
#283
lukeneyland said:
I think interpreting the Bible is difficult. And I don't pretend to have all the answers, I think what's important is accepting Jesus. As far as illegals. I think your misunderstanding what I'm saying as well as using the term slave a bit too freely. Illegals are not physically compelled to work somewhere in this country. The migrants in the countries I was speaking of sometimes are. The biggest thing illegals face is a lack of labor regulation. I don't see how you are turning that into slavery. The United States was undoubtedly founded partially on Judeo-Christian values. You can be a non Christian and still acknowledge the value of some of the teachings.
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Human trafficking is definitely an issue in the US. That is modern day slavery basically. I think regardless of status, there are certain rights that should be afforded regardless since they’re contributing to the economy.

I think certain values/morals are innate regardless of religion. There may be some teachings that you can say apply to everyone, but I wouldn’t say they’re the origin of the morals.
 
#284
#284
USMC-TNVOL said:
While many were religious, the notable ones showed deistic tendencies such as Franklin and Jefferson. Even Washington was debated on whether he was religious. Franklin and Jefferson would not be viewed men of “faith” for the fact they didn’t believe in any miracles from religion. If they had the knowledge of today, they would probably be agnostic or atheist. I think some would have been more open if they lived in a society that was less religious.

The constitution itself does not mention god. I think the only mention of it in the declaration is “nature’s god.”
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And many would be more out spoken, unable to fathom an America that was hostile to Christian living and practice.

So, you mention two? Again, by today’s standards they would be considered Favorable towards the Christian faith. Anything else you’ve said is speculation.
saying people in the past would think a different on matters of faith if they had our experience is highly condescending and prejudicial.
 
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#285
#285
clarksvol00 said:
It has also been used by multiple religions and the state. Just cause one group thought it up doesn't mean they have exclusive rights to it. Being married under the laws of the state and being married under the laws of a religion can be two different things.
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The question is why does the state have any stake in supporting or regulating marriage.
 
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#288
#288
Roustabout said:
Not relevant to my point or argument. But, yes that’s true
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If you want the benefits the state provides to married couples including tax breaks, potentially insurance, survivor benefits, etc., I guess they might want to be able to verify that you actually are married. Or they might want to verify that you're not marrying a 15 year old. Various considerations to that effect.
 
#289
#289
clarksvol00 said:
If you want the benefits the state provides to married couples including tax breaks, potentially insurance, survivor benefits, etc., I guess they might want to be able to verify that you actually are married. Or they might want to verify that you're not marrying a 15 year old. Various considerations to that effect.
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Ok, thanks for stopping by.
 
#294
#294
Roustabout said:
And many would be more out spoken, unable to fathom an America that was hostile to Christian living and practice.

So, you mention two? Again, by today’s standards they would be considered Favorable towards the Christian faith. Anything else you’ve said is speculation.
saying people in the past would think a different on matters of faith if they had our experience is highly condescending and prejudicial.
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Hostile? The only ones that push that agenda are Fox News with its yearly war on Christmas specials, while Christians try to push their beliefs on schools or display the commandment in courthouse locations. Almost every president has been Christian or portrayed themselves as it. America is nowhere near “hostile.” They wouldn’t be able to recognize the Christianity of today.

Disbelief in miracles isn’t friendly towards Christianity as many books in the Bible display supernatural beliefs where the laws of nature are defied. You state I speak on speculation and that I’m highly prejudiced and condescending yet you state they’d be friendly towards the Christian faith based on them being diests. Jefferson, when he made his own bible, cut out all the parts that defy nature. If someone were to do that today they would be ostracized by Christians.
 
#296
#296
USMC-TNVOL said:
Hostile? The only ones that push that agenda are Fox News with its yearly war on Christmas specials, while Christians try to push their beliefs on schools or display the commandment in courthouse locations. Almost every president has been Christian or portrayed themselves as it. America is nowhere near “hostile.” They wouldn’t be able to recognize the Christianity of today.

Disbelief in miracles isn’t friendly towards Christianity as many books in the Bible display supernatural beliefs where the laws of nature are defied. You state I speak on speculation and that I’m highly prejudiced and condescending yet you state they’d be friendly towards the Christian faith based on them being diests. Jefferson, when he made his own bible, cut out all the parts that defy nature. If someone were to do that today they would be ostracized by Christians.
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Im very familiar with Jefferson. How many people today would even make their own bible? You’re missing it.

Trust me, I am equally concerned about Christian nationalism. It’s funny as I’m having a debate with Christians that the US isn't founded on the Bible.
The effort to make the Bible the state book was ridiculous. However, I do see these as reactions to a decay in the culture and society. I’m not saying it’s an appropriate response, but a reaction nonetheless. A good example is the reaction on CNN to the prayer said at the DNC. You should look that up.

I see the Roy Moore’s as being just as wrong. What would be your best example of Christians pushing their beliefs on schools?
 
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#298
#298
Roustabout said:
Im very familiar with Jefferson. How many people today would even make their own bible? You’re missing it.

Trust me, I am equally concerned about Christian nationalism. It’s funny as I’m having a debate with Christians that the US isn't founded on the Bible.
The effort to make the Bible the state book was ridiculous. However, I do see these as reactions to a decay in the culture and society. I’m not saying it’s an appropriate response, but a reaction nonetheless. A good example is the reaction on CNN to the prayer said at the DNC. You should look that up.

I see the Roy Moore’s as being just as wrong. What would be your best example of Christians pushing their beliefs on schools?
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From 2019: “Alternative Facts” in the Classroom: Creationist Educational Policy and the Trump Administration
 
#299
#299
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