Fraudulent Christians

#301
#301
Roustabout said:
I’ve had this debate many times. Here the article is ripe with paranoid commentary, smearing and question begging, but very little if any discussion.

Most of the ID movement today is responding to the fact that teaching science is morphing into scientist and secular humanism.
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Ok. So which part of that article offended you so much that you state it shows paranoia and smearing? The fact is several states a few years ago were attempting to put creationism in science classes.

The ID movement is an attempt to reconcile science with their beliefs.
 
#302
#302
clarksvol00 said:
If you want the benefits the state provides to married couples including tax breaks, potentially insurance, survivor benefits, etc., I guess they might want to be able to verify that you actually are married. Or they might want to verify that you're not marrying a 15 year old. Various considerations to that effect.
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Lol no they just care about getting their money
 
#303
#303
USMC-TNVOL said:
Ok. So which part of that article offended you so much that you state it shows paranoia and smearing? The fact is several states a few years ago were attempting to put creationism in science classes.

The ID movement is an attempt to reconcile science with their beliefs.
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I didn’t say I was offended. I just stated my observation having read it.

The ID movement is many things. Like I said, you’d have to get into an entire discussion on how basic science is being hijacked by secular humanism.
 
#304
#304
Wafflestomper said:
This is a pretty good example. I do think this sort of thing is fairly uncommon though.
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Agree. I have mixed feelings on much of it. I think there are areas of ID that are purely a methodology of multiple competing hypothesis. It’s very difficult to escape the connection to creationism, even though in what I’ve seen presented academically, there are clear distinctions.

What’s not as easily dealt with is the secular humanism and scientism that has crept into the text of science. This moves beyond teaching science and into teaching worldview.
 
#305
#305
Roustabout said:
I didn’t say I was offended. I just stated my observation having read it.

The ID movement is many things. Like I said, you’d have to get into an entire discussion on how basic science is being hijacked by secular humanism.
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Regardless, the fact is there is a push in some states (usually conservative) to push creationism into schools.

As far as hijacked, religion will never marry up with science. The belief in the supernatural in religion guarantees that. No one ideology can really hijack science as its based on presenting facts. It’s more of Christians being afraid that their religion is fading away with the presentation of these facts. As the number of non-religious people increase, so will the number of scientists that view that.
 
#306
#306
Roustabout said:
Agree. I have mixed feelings on much of it. I think there are areas of ID that are purely a methodology of multiple competing hypothesis. It’s very difficult to escape the connection to creationism, even though in what I’ve seen presented academically, there are clear distinctions.

What’s not as easily dealt with is the secular humanism and scientism that has crept into the text of science. This moves beyond teaching science and into teaching worldview.
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Do you have an example of textbooks/curriculum including scientism/secular humanism?
 
#308
#308
#309
#309
Roustabout said:
not sitting in front of me. There are others who have compiled the research. The roadblock I always find is that very few delineate science and scientism, or materialism or humanism.

https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=2200&context=ndlr
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The author of this piece has a reasonable take on the subject but the conclusion seems to be that, of all the examples given, only one was an establishment clause issue. Ironically, it was in a home economics textbook and was fairly innocuous in my opinion--"you are the most important person in your life" and "morals are rules made by people."
I think these statements could easily be made by laypersons who are trying to communicate difficult issues in such a way that kids can understand. My question is when did they start teaching morality in home economics?
 
#310
#310
Roustabout said:
not sitting in front of me. There are others who have compiled the research. The roadblock I always find is that very few delineate science and scientism, or materialism or humanism.

https://scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=2200&context=ndlr
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“Whether the public school textbooks are actually promoting secular humanism is also not clear. The area has been confused by plaintiffs who
fail to distinguish between statements in the textbooks which actually promote tenets of secular humanism and those which are merely antire- ligious. While making antireligious statements or ignoring religion's role in history might establish a religion of secularism or impermissibly inhibit Christianity, such statements do not establish the religion of secular humanism. However, values education in the public school textbooks does appear to promote secular humanism. The teaching of values clarification violates the establishment clause because it is an outgrowth of humanistic philosophy and is based upon the answers to questions of ultimate concern and the faith claims of the adherents of secular humanism.
Lawsuits claiming an establishment of secular humanism will probably not be a panacea for concerned plaintiffs. Much of what they find objectionable in the public schools cannot be clearly traced to actual teaching of secular humanism. However, when the tenets of secular hu- manism are promoted as truth in the textbooks, courts should not hesitate to find a violation of the establishment clause. If the government is to truly maintain a position of neutrality toward religion, it cannot endorse the faith claims of any religion, whether centered on God or man.”

It seems the cases in that link don’t clearly show a bias for humanism or anti religious views, and the plaintiffs couldn’t clearly provide that. One of those classes was an English literature class, which is a type of class that isn’t usually restricted as much in its content. The case focused on a line in the book that a student was offended by.

PARENTS' GROUPS PURGING SCHOOLS OF 'HUMANIST' BOOKS AND CLASSES

In the 80s, I guess humanism was the hot topic. Then metal music and satanism in the 90s. Seems the Christians always need a group to hate on and blame for the “degrading of morals in society.”
 
#312
#312
USMC-TNVOL said:
“Whether the public school textbooks are actually promoting secular humanism is also not clear. The area has been confused by plaintiffs who
fail to distinguish between statements in the textbooks which actually promote tenets of secular humanism and those which are merely antire- ligious. While making antireligious statements or ignoring religion's role in history might establish a religion of secularism or impermissibly inhibit Christianity, such statements do not establish the religion of secular humanism. However, values education in the public school textbooks does appear to promote secular humanism. The teaching of values clarification violates the establishment clause because it is an outgrowth of humanistic philosophy and is based upon the answers to questions of ultimate concern and the faith claims of the adherents of secular humanism.
Lawsuits claiming an establishment of secular humanism will probably not be a panacea for concerned plaintiffs. Much of what they find objectionable in the public schools cannot be clearly traced to actual teaching of secular humanism. However, when the tenets of secular hu- manism are promoted as truth in the textbooks, courts should not hesitate to find a violation of the establishment clause. If the government is to truly maintain a position of neutrality toward religion, it cannot endorse the faith claims of any religion, whether centered on God or man.”

It seems the cases in that link don’t clearly show a bias for humanism or anti religious views, and the plaintiffs couldn’t clearly provide that. One of those classes was an English literature class, which is a type of class that isn’t usually restricted as much in its content. The case focused on a line in the book that a student was offended by.

PARENTS' GROUPS PURGING SCHOOLS OF 'HUMANIST' BOOKS AND CLASSES

In the 80s, I guess humanism was the hot topic. Then metal music and satanism in the 90s. Seems the Christians always need a group to hate on and blame for the “degrading of morals in society.”
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I agree, public schools should not endorse religion. I’m not surprised when a secular humanist says the schools aren’t teaching secular humanism. LOL
 
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#313
#313
Roustabout said:
I agree, public schools should not endorse religion. I’m not surprised when a secular humanist says the schools aren’t teaching secular humanism. LOL
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The link your provided that stated there was no evidence for it and you’ve provided nothing that really demonstrates the school does. Just another boogeyman that’s “destroying our culture” for you guys.

Additionally, I think it’s telling that we can’t find much since the late 80s regarding it.
 
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#315
#315
USMC-TNVOL said:
The link your provided that stated there was no evidence for it and you’ve provided nothing that really demonstrates the school does. Just another boogeyman that’s “destroying our culture” for you guys.

Additionally, I think it’s telling that we can’t find much since the late 80s regarding it.
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That’s not what it said at all.
 
#316
#316
I have to admit I laughed when I read this.

The board’s statement about Falwell on Friday referred to “various rumors and claims,” which may be related to indications that a news service planned to air new claims from the man who Becki Falwell had the affair with a pool attendant the Falwells met and befriended in 2012 while staying at the Fontainebleau Miami Beach.

Exclusive: Falwell says ‘Fatal Attraction’ threat led to depression
 
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#321
#321
Sad, but, that is people.

Peddlers of false and hypocritical notions, beliefs, and actions. Conviction and real conviction are hard to find anywhere anymore, no matter the trains of thoughts that are spoken or preached.

Just that religion and politics lend themselves to the many pulpit preaching peddlers of "thou" not "thee". Nothing new.

It's worse knowing that grown people follow any man or woman that they "hold" up because of their station in life, both political and religious.
 
#324
#324
Y9 Vol said:
What is truly sad is that people revel in a person's spiritual downfall.
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A spiritual "downfall" implies that there was a time when he actually had a higher or elevated or better spirit. And I don't think he did. This has always been a grift for him. He rode his Daddy's name and milked it, knowing that all he had to do was say the right things, show up on Sunday morning, and then do whatever he wanted the rest of the week.
 
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#325
#325
evillawyer said:
A spiritual "downfall" implies that there was a time when he actually had a higher or elevated or better spirit. And I don't think he did. This has always been a grift for him. He rode his Daddy's name and milked it, knowing that all he had to do was say the right things, show up on Sunday morning, and then do whatever he wanted the rest of the week.
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Says it all to me.
 
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