Fraudulent Christians

#76
#76
marcusluvsvols said:
let me also say this:

I think it is EXTREMELY foolish to ever call someone a fraudulent Christian, or attempt to judge someone else's relationship with God to be lacking. The spiritual condition of another person is absolutely unknowable. Only he and God could ever know that...and i think it is a very bad look trying to pass judgment on someone that you don't even know...especially that aspect of them.

Let's say for this example JF jr. Actually slept with his assistant. What if that is the only real sin in his life? What if he spends hours every day in prayer...and volunteers his free time every week selflessly helping people in his community in Gods name? What if he is by all accounts a great man, other than this mistake or flaw? Who are you, or we, to judge him? What sin do you have in YOUR LIFE? Do you lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, gossip, etc etc? Are you without sin and perfect somehow that it would put you in a place to make judgments as to other men's spiritual condition?

No. Of course not. I know that, because the Bible says so. Not 1 man who has ever lived, besides Christ, is without sin. We are told over and over again not to judge other people in this way...not to point out the splinter in our brothers eye...while we have a plank in our own eyes.

Why is it that people who claim not to believe in God are always the first ones tryinf to tear down Christians who they feel "aren't Christian enough"??? How would you ever know? How could you possibly know what goes on in this man's life?
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So you deleted the long post?

Very good post. Both of them.

I think some hearts are hardened to the idea that as humans we have an immortal soul and need to consider how we expect to spend eternity.

I believe there is more to us than the material that makes up our flesh and bones.
 
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#80
#80
marcusluvsvols said:
I typed a long post trying to explain what the handful of people I have known actually have, but ended up deleting it. To try and explain it to someone who doesn't believe is like trying to explain to my wife the difference between a 2 and 4 stroke engine. It isn't that she isn't capable of understanding, under the right circumstances anyway...it's that she doesn't really care...and her life experiences thus far are such that the best she could gain is an intellectual understanding...not a practical working knowledge that would help her right now.

Suffice to say this: of all the folks I have known and worshipped with since 2003 when I got saved, I have known a handful of people who are truly 100% "sold out", in love with Jesus Christ and live each and every day of their lives trying to please Him in every way that they can. One thing I have noticed that these exceptional people have in common is that they seemingly begin every day praying some version of this:

" Dear Lord, wherever I go today, and whatever it is that I do...let it not be because of me or MY will...let each and every thing that I say and do be YOUR will...let everything that I do be pleasing to you..that I might glorify you and bring others to know YOU."

I have only known a few people with the strength of character, unyielding faith, discipline, and "death to self" attitude capable of living each and every day for God, rather than themselves. It is an amazing thing to behold, and to be around these rare people is to witness the power of God manifest on Earth. It is difficult to aptly describe...and amazing to witness. These people see God's hand and His miracles frequently. They are on a high that no Earthly drug could ever hope to produce. In everything they do, they live, breathe, and walk by Faith.

I have never personally been able to make it to that place in my walk. I have felt God's presence in my life...i have seen Him work a miracle that directly affected my family...i have felt the peace that ONLY comes from Him, when I was doing exactly what HE called me to do, and was right in the center of God's will for my life. It is an amazing feeling...but I am not worthy to be 1 of the people that I described above. I am just a sinner, saved by grace...who still struggles mightily with my own flesh and desires. Not that the people I spoke of above are perfect and without sin...nobody is...but they are so much further along in their relationship with God Almighty that their sins are tiny in comparison. Generally, I believe, sins of omission...rather than commission. Impure thoughts from time to time...things of that nature. They hold themselves to a higher standard and in return are blessed to spend the overwhelming majority of their lives with the peace and joy that can only come from being right in the center of God's will for a man's life. Which differs from man to man.

Anyway...most people probably will not understand what I am speaking of. That's OK...I probably did a crappy job of saying what I intended to...and I know the scripture pertaining to these things and understand that many folks minds will not understand nor believe because their hearts are in no condition to receive the message anyway.

What I speak of is very real though. As real as the air that we breathe, as solid as the Earth on which we stand. God is so very real, Jesus Christ is a very real person...and Christianity at its core is not about religion...it is about a RELATIONSHIP. A relationship between men and a God who loves them. When a person is willing to completely deny himself and his own desires, and live his life 100% to please God...amazing things result. I have seen it. I have seen Gods power made manifest on Earth, and seen what He can and will do for those who love Him enough to live on Faith. I am not that good of a Christian honestly. At this point in my life I still wrestle with sin. Those of you who mock Christ and Christians are so very wrong though. We will all come to understand how very real the God of the Bible is...either in life or death. O hope that for all of us it is here in this life.
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Amen.
 
#81
#81
marcusluvsvols said:
I typed a long post trying to explain what the handful of people I have known actually have, but ended up deleting it. To try and explain it to someone who doesn't believe is like trying to explain to my wife the difference between a 2 and 4 stroke engine. It isn't that she isn't capable of understanding, under the right circumstances anyway...it's that she doesn't really care...and her life experiences thus far are such that the best she could gain is an intellectual understanding...not a practical working knowledge that would help her right now.

Suffice to say this: of all the folks I have known and worshipped with since 2003 when I got saved, I have known a handful of people who are truly 100% "sold out", in love with Jesus Christ and live each and every day of their lives trying to please Him in every way that they can. One thing I have noticed that these exceptional people have in common is that they seemingly begin every day praying some version of this:

" Dear Lord, wherever I go today, and whatever it is that I do...let it not be because of me or MY will...let each and every thing that I say and do be YOUR will...let everything that I do be pleasing to you..that I might glorify you and bring others to know YOU."

I have only known a few people with the strength of character, unyielding faith, discipline, and "death to self" attitude capable of living each and every day for God, rather than themselves. It is an amazing thing to behold, and to be around these rare people is to witness the power of God manifest on Earth. It is difficult to aptly describe...and amazing to witness. These people see God's hand and His miracles frequently. They are on a high that no Earthly drug could ever hope to produce. In everything they do, they live, breathe, and walk by Faith.

I have never personally been able to make it to that place in my walk. I have felt God's presence in my life...i have seen Him work a miracle that directly affected my family...i have felt the peace that ONLY comes from Him, when I was doing exactly what HE called me to do, and was right in the center of God's will for my life. It is an amazing feeling...but I am not worthy to be 1 of the people that I described above. I am just a sinner, saved by grace...who still struggles mightily with my own flesh and desires. Not that the people I spoke of above are perfect and without sin...nobody is...but they are so much further along in their relationship with God Almighty that their sins are tiny in comparison. Generally, I believe, sins of omission...rather than commission. Impure thoughts from time to time...things of that nature. They hold themselves to a higher standard and in return are blessed to spend the overwhelming majority of their lives with the peace and joy that can only come from being right in the center of God's will for a man's life. Which differs from man to man.

Anyway...most people probably will not understand what I am speaking of. That's OK...I probably did a crappy job of saying what I intended to...and I know the scripture pertaining to these things and understand that many folks minds will not understand nor believe because their hearts are in no condition to receive the message anyway.

What I speak of is very real though. As real as the air that we breathe, as solid as the Earth on which we stand. God is so very real, Jesus Christ is a very real person...and Christianity at its core is not about religion...it is about a RELATIONSHIP. A relationship between men and a God who loves them. When a person is willing to completely deny himself and his own desires, and live his life 100% to please God...amazing things result. I have seen it. I have seen Gods power made manifest on Earth, and seen what He can and will do for those who love Him enough to live on Faith. I am not that good of a Christian honestly. At this point in my life I still wrestle with sin. Those of you who mock Christ and Christians are so very wrong though. We will all come to understand how very real the God of the Bible is...either in life or death. O hope that for all of us it is here in this life.
Click to expand...
As a Christian I fall short of what Jesus wants of me. I can honestly say that I met two Christians in my life who you can see the Holy Spirit working in their lives. One
passed away in 1963 when I was a child.
She was in her eighties and the other is a
90 year lady who is still alive today.
 
#82
#82
marcusluvsvols said:
I typed a long post trying to explain what the handful of people I have known actually have, but ended up deleting it. To try and explain it to someone who doesn't believe is like trying to explain to my wife the difference between a 2 and 4 stroke engine. It isn't that she isn't capable of understanding, under the right circumstances anyway...it's that she doesn't really care...and her life experiences thus far are such that the best she could gain is an intellectual understanding...not a practical working knowledge that would help her right now.

Suffice to say this: of all the folks I have known and worshipped with since 2003 when I got saved, I have known a handful of people who are truly 100% "sold out", in love with Jesus Christ and live each and every day of their lives trying to please Him in every way that they can. One thing I have noticed that these exceptional people have in common is that they seemingly begin every day praying some version of this:

" Dear Lord, wherever I go today, and whatever it is that I do...let it not be because of me or MY will...let each and every thing that I say and do be YOUR will...let everything that I do be pleasing to you..that I might glorify you and bring others to know YOU."

I have only known a few people with the strength of character, unyielding faith, discipline, and "death to self" attitude capable of living each and every day for God, rather than themselves. It is an amazing thing to behold, and to be around these rare people is to witness the power of God manifest on Earth. It is difficult to aptly describe...and amazing to witness. These people see God's hand and His miracles frequently. They are on a high that no Earthly drug could ever hope to produce. In everything they do, they live, breathe, and walk by Faith.

I have never personally been able to make it to that place in my walk. I have felt God's presence in my life...i have seen Him work a miracle that directly affected my family...i have felt the peace that ONLY comes from Him, when I was doing exactly what HE called me to do, and was right in the center of God's will for my life. It is an amazing feeling...but I am not worthy to be 1 of the people that I described above. I am just a sinner, saved by grace...who still struggles mightily with my own flesh and desires. Not that the people I spoke of above are perfect and without sin...nobody is...but they are so much further along in their relationship with God Almighty that their sins are tiny in comparison. Generally, I believe, sins of omission...rather than commission. Impure thoughts from time to time...things of that nature. They hold themselves to a higher standard and in return are blessed to spend the overwhelming majority of their lives with the peace and joy that can only come from being right in the center of God's will for a man's life. Which differs from man to man.

Anyway...most people probably will not understand what I am speaking of. That's OK...I probably did a crappy job of saying what I intended to...and I know the scripture pertaining to these things and understand that many folks minds will not understand nor believe because their hearts are in no condition to receive the message anyway.

What I speak of is very real though. As real as the air that we breathe, as solid as the Earth on which we stand. God is so very real, Jesus Christ is a very real person...and Christianity at its core is not about religion...it is about a RELATIONSHIP. A relationship between men and a God who loves them. When a person is willing to completely deny himself and his own desires, and live his life 100% to please God...amazing things result. I have seen it. I have seen Gods power made manifest on Earth, and seen what He can and will do for those who love Him enough to live on Faith. I am not that good of a Christian honestly. At this point in my life I still wrestle with sin. Those of you who mock Christ and Christians are so very wrong though. We will all come to understand how very real the God of the Bible is...either in life or death. O hope that for all of us it is here in this life.
Click to expand...
I can see the Lord was with you writing
this post. I believe you explained it perfectly.
 
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#83
#83
I am unworthy to even speak of Him brother. I promise you that. I have seen Him move though...and it is something to behold.

Thank you for the kind words though.
 
#89
#89
hUTch2002 said:
Actually, I believe I asked a question. I didn’t make a statement.
Click to expand...

Your question implied that I was crapping on this country, which is a stupid conclusion to draw for calling you out on implying that religious freedom is "thanks to living in the greatest country on Earth" when, again, it is hardly a novel concept. You then went on to move the goalposts and tried referring to all freedoms, which, yet again, is not unique to the US.
 
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#92
#92
DinkinFlicka said:
Your question implied that I was crapping on this country, which is a stupid conclusion to draw for calling you out on implying that religious freedom is "thanks to living in the greatest country on Earth" when, again, it is hardly a novel concept. You then went on to move the goalposts and tried referring to all freedoms, which, yet again, is not unique to the US.
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I asked a question dude or dudette. I don’t know you or pretend to know you. Religious freedom isn’t novel but you have it as part of living in the greatest country on Earth. I really don’t care if you agree with that or not. The original comment wasn’t even directed towards you but you felt you needed to respond and why is that? I’m guessing because you don’t think the US is special but you are welcome to correct me if I’m incorrect. Maybe you don’t dump on our country like so many do these days but perhaps you do. You never answered the question and then drew your own stupid conclusion based on what you thought. I never said there aren’t other countries that have religious and other freedoms but those things are here and are part of why we are the greatest country. I never said it was the only reason. Perhaps you should stop accusing others of drawing stupid conclusions while drawing your own.
 
#93
#93
Tyler Durden said:
You won't go to heaven unless you give me 10% of your income.
Click to expand...


In the Bible it was actually closer to 12%, not 10%. The 10% is crucial because you are suppose to give back to the church and the church is suppose to then turn around and use it to help the poor and advance the ministry. The issue is many, many, many churches have not done this and this is evil.


All churches should show where their money goes and how it is being spent. If it's going into the preachers pocket and he is on a yacht or suddenly flying around in a private plane then that church has lost it's way.

You dont go into the ministry to become rich.
 
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#94
#94
hUTch2002 said:
I asked a question dude or dudette. I don’t know you or pretend to know you. Religious freedom isn’t novel but you have it as part of living in the greatest country on Earth. I really don’t care if you agree with that or not. The original comment wasn’t even directed towards you but you felt you needed to respond and why is that? I’m guessing because you don’t think the US is special but you are welcome to correct me if I’m incorrect. Maybe you don’t dump on our country like so many do these days but perhaps you do. You never answered the question and then drew your own stupid conclusion based on what you thought. I never said there aren’t other countries that have religious and other freedoms but those things are here and are part of why we are the greatest country. I never said it was the only reason. Perhaps you should stop accusing others of drawing stupid conclusions while drawing your own.
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I'm a dude.

I'll outline this for you, once more, so you can put it to bed and accept that you done goofed. That's the first and only step.

1) I originally quoted you because this is a *forum*. If you want your conversations to be private or lack outside comment, get an email address and do it there. I'm 100% sure you've quoted posts that weren't directed at you, so I'd sever that line of logic if I were you.

2) You said religious freedom (and later amended to many freedoms) were a part of living in the greatest country on earth, which is true, but you were saying it as though those freedoms were some sort of rarity, when they most certainly are not. You then went on to attempt reinforcing that notion by saying "there are plenty that do not" which is vague and, frankly, a poor effort to hammer on an already weak position. Sure, there are some, but freedom of speech and religion are a vast commonplace throughout the world. You can list the countries that don't have them quite quickly and briefly.

3) I didn't answer your question because it was A) a loaded question that you had no interest in actually learning an answer to and B) I don't bother answering those. I drew the correct conclusion because your implication was plainly stated in that same question.

4) You can't say that commonplace freedoms are part of what makes us the greatest country. Refer back to my analogy. The restaurant that has the best steak in town isn't going to cite their ice water as what makes their place so great.

Thanks for attending your own paddling. No harm, no foul. Have a great day!
 
#95
#95
DinkinFlicka said:
I'm a dude.

I'll outline this for you, once more, so you can put it to bed and accept that you done goofed. That's the first and only step.

1) I originally quoted you because this is a *forum*. If you want your conversations to be private or lack outside comment, get an email address and do it there. I'm 100% sure you've quoted posts that weren't directed at you, so I'd sever that line of logic if I were you. You yet again are struggling with making assumptions. Everyone responds to posts that weren’t directed at them. I asked why you responded to that one and then offered a guess. You jumped the shark on this assumption there fella. Nice straw man argument though.

2) You said religious freedom (and later amended to many freedoms) were a part of living in the greatest country on earth, which is true, but you were saying it as though those freedoms were some sort of rarity, when they most certainly are not. You then went on to attempt reinforcing that notion by saying "there are plenty that do not" which is vague and, frankly, a poor effort to hammer on an already weak position. Sure, there are some, but freedom of speech and religion are a vast commonplace throughout the world. You can list the countries that don't have them quite quickly and briefly. So what I read here is that you agree that I was correct and then made yet another assumption that I was saying it is a rarity. What do you bet I find another assumption below?

3) I didn't answer your question because it was A) a loaded question that you had no interest in actually learning an answer to and B) I don't bother answering those. I drew the correct conclusion because your implication was plainly stated in that same question. Look, more assumptions. How is it loaded? If you’re not one of those people simply say so. Seriously dude, you read into sh*t more than my wife does.

4) You can't say that commonplace freedoms are part of what makes us the greatest country. Refer back to my analogy. The restaurant that has the best steak in town isn't going to cite their ice water as what makes their place so great. Ok, I can say that, and actually you agreed under #2 above but now you’re saying that those freedoms aren’t part of what makes this country great so that’s confusing but it really doesn’t matter.

Thanks for attending your own paddling. No harm, no foul. Have a great day!
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I find it funny you are claiming some kind of victory here when all you’ve done is proven that the saying about assumptions is true. But, as you said, it’s a forum and you’re allowed to make all the stupid assumptions you want. Thanks for my “spanking”. Please don’t assume I mean that literally.
Edit: See bold responses to your points above.
 
#96
#96
All I know is when I have parties on my boat.... attendees have to check their phones at the door
 
#97
#97
hUTch2002 said:
I find it funny you are claiming some kind of victory here when all you’ve done is proven that the saying about assumptions is true. But, as you said, it’s a forum and you’re allowed to make all the stupid assumptions you want. Thanks for my “spanking”. Please don’t assume I mean that literally.
Edit: See bold responses to your points above.
Click to expand...

I'm very unsettled by a wife and spanking reference in the same post.

I think "You're just making assumptions" is your only retort here because you realized ya done goofed. It's cool.
 
#98
#98
DinkinFlicka said:
I'm very unsettled by a wife and spanking reference in the same post.

I think "You're just making assumptions" is your only retort here because you realized ya done goofed. It's cool.
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Trust me, it’s not as exciting as it appears on the surface. That was a funny comment though so kudos for that one. As far as your other comment, I would hardly say me calling you out for your assumptions is evidence of me having “goofed” but, just for you, you win. Congratulations! You are the winner of the internet. Have a good one man.
 
#99
#99
NEOCON said:
In the Bible it was actually closer to 12%, not 10%. The 10% is crucial because you are suppose to give back to the church and the church is suppose to then turn around and use it to help the poor and advance the ministry. The issue is many, many, many churches have not done this and this is evil.


All churches should show where their money goes and how it is being spent. If it's going into the preachers pocket and he is on a yacht or suddenly flying around in a private plane then that church has lost it's way.

You dont go into the ministry to become rich.
Click to expand...
In the Bible tithing had NOTHING to do with currency. It was a way to provide for the priesthood, and what was excess was returned to the people. Grain, cattle, spices. It had nothing to do with money and was strictly for the nation of Israel. Any preacher that says you are obligated to give the church (whatever that means) 10% so they can pay half-ass vocational ministers and have a gymnasium is full of crap.
 
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#100
#100
Roustabout said:
In the Bible tithing had NOTHING to do with currency. It was a way to provide for the priesthood, and what was excess was returned to the people. Grain, cattle, spices. It had nothing to do with money and was strictly for the nation of Israel. Any preacher that says you are obligated to give the church (whatever that means) 10% so they can pay half-ass vocational ministers and have a gymnasium is full of crap.
Click to expand...

They were on the Mercantile system at that point. We are no longer on this system.
 
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