Freeze and Dabo negative religious recruit UT

#126
#126
BruinVol said:
Wow just wow

Unreal the assumptions the sports world makes

I mean good grief our coach had self imposed penalties for waving to the crowd at a basketball game.

Breaking NCAA rules doesn't make anyone less of a Christ follower and in fact in many cases it might mean the opposite
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The word around here in Memphis is Freeze had extramarital relationships with high school students while still coaching at Briarcrest High School, and the word "statutory" has been used to describe their age. My Aunt and Uncle sent their children there and from what they've told me it isn't exactly just a baseless rumor. Obviously we can never prove it, but if true, doesn't sound exactly Christ-like now, does it?

Also, using religion to recruit for or against a school is wrong in my opinion. I'm a Christian, but it feels like they're pandering to emotions and feelings in the name of a football program, which is essentially a big business. It seems wrong, but apparently, it works.
 
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#127
#127
SECVolFan said:
Hahaha dang, this guy is owning you all. Seriously though, he has been really reserved and eloquent with his side of the conversation. Can't really say the same about the other side...

Yet, he continues to have an interesting, respectful exchange.

Good for you, VnB.

As for you others, shame shame.
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Thanks, SECVF. I enjoy the conversations on VN. I think everyone's been pretty respectful today. I, honestly, never intend to offend anyone.

Switching back to the topic of the thread though, I think it must be an incredibly hard job for these head coaches to keep things within the lines. To start with the lines, as drawn by the NCAA, are, at best, vague and ever-changing. Secondly, there are so many outside factors in play that controlling 85 (?) college-aged kids full of hormones must be nearly impossible. I think by and large they do their best, but the pressures certainly do get to them. Whether it's ethical or not to negative recruit against a school, if you feel your lively hood is on the line and maybe you feel it's a little justice we all might make that same decision to degrees.

As for something as serious as rape, I think the way Butch handled the AJ/MW case was about as good as you can do it. You want to treat the kids as innocent until proven guilty as that is their right, but you also can't be seen doing nothing with an allegation that serious. I know that our VFL program touches on the players putting themselves in the right situations and that is clearly a case where those two young men could have done better regardless of the actual facts.
 
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#128
#128
WilliamDuVOL said:
Also, using religion to recruit for or against a school is wrong in my opinion. I'm a Christian, but it feels like they're pandering to emotions and feelings in the name of a football program, which is essentially a big business. It seems wrong, but apparently, it works.
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2 ways to do it.


1) come play for me and I will be a leader of men and take care of your kid and treat him like my own. I will treat him in a Godly way and offer develop opportunities in the name of my faith. I know your other choices don't have the same atmosphere so if this is important to you and your family then we are the right choice

2) come play me, a man of integrity and a man of God. Your other choices are led by men that only care about their players on the field and could care less about the character of their players.


Number 1 is plenty fair IMO.

Number 2 I agree with you
 
#129
#129
a vol n tears said:
I promise to pray for you. Better to believe in hell and be wrong, than not believe and find out it's true.
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Thanks, Blaise Pascal.

Also, does it make anyone one else laugh when someone professes their unbelief in God/Heaven/Hell and someone immediately quotes them a bible verse to try and prove them wrong?
 
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#130
#130
BruinVol said:
2 ways to do it.


1) come play for me and I will be a leader of men and take care of your kid and treat him like my own. I will treat him in a Godly way and offer develop opportunities in the name of my faith. I know your other choices don't have the same atmosphere so if this is important to you and your family then we are the right choice

2) come play me, a man of integrity and a man of God. Your other choices are led by men that only care about their players on the field and could care less about the character of their players.


Number 1 is plenty fair IMO.

Number 2 I agree with you
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Like I said, I have trouble having heard what I've heard, and believing Freeze isn't doing all of this for personal gain.

As another poster pointed out, negative recruiting in the sense of saying "they're not Christly enough, look at my Christlyness, I am far more Christly, play for me instead" seems un-Christian as well. Ye who is without sin cast the first stone and all that.
 
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#131
#131
BruinVol said:
So a coach that doesn't act "Christlike" at all times is causing destruction when they proclaim their faith?


If you don't follow freeze on twitter I would love for your take as a minister of his tweets. Does it come off to you as a man all about personal gain by pushing his faith
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Freeze is a joke. He's repeatedly said God has blessed Ole Miss and their football program. There's probably multiple ways to interpret that but on the surface it says God chose to bless them and potentially not other programs. Don't think God cares one way or the other who wins a college football game or what school has the best recruiting classes.
 
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#133
#133
WilliamDuVOL said:
Like I said, I have trouble having heard what I've heard, and believing Freeze isn't doing all of this for personal gain.

As another poster pointed out, negative recruiting in the sense of saying "they're not Christly enough, look at my Christlyness, I am far more Christly, play for me instead" seems un-Christian as well. Ye who is without sin cast the first stone and all that.
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Think about this.

How many names of prominence havnt been rumored to have had extramarital affairs?


It's a large % and I dare say the most used rumor of slander there is. Sure it's true a lot of times but if you are shaping your judge of character on that rumor that's pretty tough IMO.

Butch has been rumored the same.

Fulmer was rumored with a student himself

Peyton was rumored a few yeArs ago.

Hell there is even a rumor about Obama having an affair out there right now
 
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#134
#134
bowlinggreenvol said:
Freeze is a joke. He's repeatedly said God has blessed Ole Miss and their football program. There's probably multiple ways to interpret that but on the surface it says God chose to bless them and potentially not other programs. Don't think God cares one way or the other who wins a college football game or what school has the best recruiting classes.
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What???

So I shouldn't say God Has blessed my family because it's some how disrespectful to other families?
 
#136
#136
Vol'n'beers said:
AV, you are very complimentary though you too could be this wise if you were to read on the subject matters.

Obviously, I'm not going to be able to answer your question as the change from single celled organisms to multicellular ones is still being researched. As an engineer this is not my focus of work so I rely on that tool I mentioned above, reading. When the scientists working on it figure it out, I'll come back here and try to explain it.

If I had to answer I would think that it had something to do with energy dispersal. All life is just a process of energy conversion, but that requires energy to enter and leave the system. The earliest cells probably had an advantage when they grew in size. However, I would imagine there is a point where the cellular walls become weak and it would be beneficial and maybe necessary to reform the wall, thus creating a separate chamber needing its own separate way to regulate the aforementioned energy transfer. The gender differences would just be an evolutionary change based on the increase in survivability of a species based on having a wide variety of chromasomal combinations. That's just a crazy idea based off things I've read though.

Edit: it's important to note that the time scale of 1-3 billion years is significant to this process.
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Thank you for the kind and thoughtful response. The basic gist I get is you (and science) lack proof of reproductive evolution, yet you believe (and science theorizes) it happened. I lack proof (scientific, as I required of you) of a loving God but I still believe He exists. So, we (and everyone else on earth) all have faith in something. Yours is in science, mine in God and his son Jesus.

You have not been condescending in your discussion, and I appreciate that. All too often, however, those who argue your position do so from a stance of intellectual superiority because they have "Science!" and all we unenlightened dullards have is faith. Truth is, we all just have faith.

I apologize to you for those on here who are guilty of what far too often happens on my side - arguing from a stance of moral superiority. I'm just an old sinner saved by grace. My hope is someday you will be, too. Realizing you already have faith might be a first step.

AV
 
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#140
#140
Vol'n'beers said:
And cancer apparently. And Zika virus, polio, scurvy, lupus, etc. We have extremely delicate systems that easily fail. The earth itself will kill us given any opportunity. And we have plans (dna) that are often flawed and result in a whole host of other problems. For some reason we must eat through the same part of our bodies that we breathe. That's just dumb. So, if your statement above is correct, then my statement about being a lousy creator is also true.
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You're only covering half the discussion. Created perfect, yet fallen.

You choose to believe that randomness begat order. I choose to believe that order is descending into randomness. In my 30 years as an engineer, my stuff never got better over time, only the opposite...completely consistent with the entropic nature of the universe. So from my perspective, my belief is backed by observation.

But that's the great things about belief...it's up to you to choose.
 
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#141
#141
BigZiti09 said:
They also can't snap their fingers or do jumping jacks.

Edit: Not going to argue with you VnB. You've been pretty respectful and obviously we disagree on creation. I'll leave this link for you to a speaker addressing science questions regarding the God of the Bible. I think you'll find it interesting if you are in to these kind of questions... Transformation Church - Sermons Video - 3 Questions: Has Science Disproved the God of the Bible?
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Ziti, I appreciate the link. Although I normally wouldn't watch that video, I started it out of curiosity. Unfortunately, I noticed it's 53 min long and I'm already dodging work as it is. If I can surmise, the speaker goes on to relate that scientific discoveries don't disprove the existence of God, but just the intricacy of the universe He created? While as an atheist I obviously wouldn't follow that line of thinking and would definitely have some questions/comments, but I do believe that it's a nuanced and sophisticated form of your faith. I appreciate any line of thinking that adjusts with discovery/investigation. You shouldn't hide from the universe and what we can learn about it, but rather try to understand how your beliefs fit into it. I'm totally cool with that. Actually, I'm totally cool with the old-school Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, young Earth line as well. Don't try to make me live by it, pay for it, or subscribe to it, but if it brings you happiness rock on. :rock:

I also want to make the point that science as a process is not trying to disprove any god whether Christian, Hindu, Ancient Greek, etc. It seeks only to find plausible answers to observations so that we can find new questions to ask.
 
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#142
#142
BigZiti09 said:
I went to college to get a degree so I could get a job.
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Lol


I think it would be fascinating to see this thread if freeze was coaching Tenn and jones was coaching ole miss.

Just a guess but I feel fairly certain most of this board would be literally praising the hell out of freeze and how good of an influence he was on our VFLers
 
#143
#143
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Being a minister I will say without reservation, that more damage is done to the cause of Christ by proclaimed "Christians" using it as a vehicle for selfish gain, than anything else. They leave a slimy trail of broken faith, distrust and cynicism behind. Once someone's innocent faith has been broken, it is almost impossible to win them back.
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So true. If Dabo and/or Freeze are negative recruiting via Christianity, then they are surely using it for selfish reasons.
 
#144
#144
HSVol said:
It's been a long time, but I've seen Freeze behind closed doors and he openly promoted a Christian atmosphere amongst his staff. Always felt he was an interesting paradox of high morals but flexible ethics.

And, of course, that's only what I observed and not a summary judgement of who he truly is.
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High morals and flexible ethics? You've just described many "highly religious" people.
 
#145
#145
SSVol said:
You're only covering half the discussion. Created perfect, yet fallen.

You choose to believe that randomness begat order. I choose to believe that order is descending into randomness. In my 30 years as an engineer, my stuff never got better over time, only the opposite...completely consistent with the entropic nature of the universe. So from my perspective, my belief is backed by observation.

But that's the great things about belief...it's up to you to choose.
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Well put about belief, SS. I agree 100%.

I do want to make the point about entropy, though, as it has been making the rounds lately. The thermodynamic law that entropy will always increase is only valid for a closed system. Many of the applications I see on the internet are not closed at all. Any transfer of energy in/out of the system opens it.
As for order from randomness, I'm not actually sure where I stand on that other than it's somewhere in the middle. I think what we view as being order is one of many outcomes given the expanse of spacetime. I don't know that that makes it any more/less likely than a system full of unconnected parts. Going back to what I said above, energy is constantly flowing into and out of everything so over a small enough time period you could probably argue both sides. Gas compacts into stars and stars explode into gas.
 
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#146
#146
Vfl2407 said:
Swain this morning saying that all schools that recruit against Vols are using the Title Nine lawsuit story against us.
Saying that Hugh Freeze and Dabo Swinney, who heavily emphasize religion in their recruiting, will really jump on Vols about not having a Christian family values culture like Ole Miss and Clemson have.
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Lived in a small hick town that had this. No thanks. They are worse than anyone else. :hi:
 
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#148
#148
Vol'n'beers said:
Ziti, I appreciate the link. Although I normally wouldn't watch that video, I started it out of curiosity. Unfortunately, I noticed it's 53 min long and I'm already dodging work as it is. If I can surmise, the speaker goes on to relate that scientific discoveries don't disprove the existence of God, but just the intricacy of the universe He created? While as an atheist I obviously wouldn't follow that line of thinking and would definitely have some questions/comments, but I do believe that it's a nuanced and sophisticated form of your faith. I appreciate any line of thinking that adjusts with discovery/investigation. You shouldn't hide from the universe and what we can learn about it, but rather try to understand how your beliefs fit into it. I'm totally cool with that. Actually, I'm totally cool with the old-school Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, young Earth line as well. Don't try to make me live by it, pay for it, or subscribe to it, but if it brings you happiness rock on. :rock:

I also want to make the point that science as a process is not trying to disprove any god whether Christian, Hindu, Ancient Greek, etc. It seeks only to find plausible answers to observations so that we can find new questions to ask.
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It's worth watching IMO.

As to your point about "don't try to make me live by it" I would just say that I can't and it would defeat the purpose if could somehow force you to believe. Having faith is a personal choice that nobody can force upon you. That said, the Great Commission was not a suggestion. Christians are charged to take the Gospel to all nations. Some will believe and some will not.

Anyway, I hope you'll take the time to watch the video or listen to it.
 
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#150
#150
Vfl2407 said:
Swain this morning saying that all schools that recruit against Vols are using the Title Nine lawsuit story against us.
Saying that Hugh Freeze and Dabo Swinney, who heavily emphasize religion in their recruiting, will really jump on Vols about not having a Christian family values culture like Ole Miss and Clemson have.
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I wonder how Swain knows this? It seems like he just grabbed a random thought he had and said it on the air.
 
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