Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

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#9,027
#9,027
GreveHaller said:
Kiff was CO-offensive coordinator with PC calling the plays. Still he had zero college HC experience, not even on a mid major level.

While Al Davis might be considered nutzo, it seems that his tirade on Kiff is warranted but that's hindsight. Even so, his HC record at Oak is lower than ant poop.

He was a "name" only with no resume and MH bought it hook line sinker without waiting to see who else might be interested.
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But what does that matter? Kiffin had a team with talent in some places, but if I remember correctly, we were starting multiple walk-ons. I can't stand what he did to us, but regardless what we think of him for that, the man could coach football and was a relentless recruiter. I mean he put one of the biggest head case quarterbacks at UT ever into the NFL and brought in a top 10 class with only a few weeks to get things together. I'm not trying to defend him, but all I'm saying is don't say he wasn't a good hire as far as getting the job done. Had he been here longer, I imagine we would be on our way to great things. His leaving, however, totally handicapped us.
 
#9,028
#9,028
livefaith said:
It's actually plausable IMHO.
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I love the Vols as much as the next guy on here, but I honestly don't think I would ever accept the head coaching position if I was a proven coach. I would now because I'm one of those that has nothing to lose. But a guy like Paterno (don't start that pedo situation) or Bowden Sr would never do it because it is practically career suicide if there is ever the slightest bit of trouble. Paterno had a couple losing seasons, he didn't get canned, and he started winning again. They were loyal to the man that was so loyal to them.
 
#9,030
#9,030
whobethis16 said:
I love the Vols as much as the next guy on here, but I honestly don't think I would ever accept the head coaching position if I was a proven coach. I would now because I'm one of those that has nothing to lose. But a guy like Paterno (don't start that pedo situation) or Bowden Sr would never do it because it is practically career suicide if there is ever the slightest bit of trouble. Paterno had a couple losing seasons, he didn't get canned, and he started winning again. They were loyal to the man that was so loyal to them.
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Bowden got forced out. Paterno would have had he not turned things around, but he got forced out because of a scandal.
 
#9,031
#9,031
WA_Vol said:
Bowden got forced out. Paterno would have had he not turned things around, but he got forced out because of a scandal.
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Paterno had back to back losing records in 2000 and 2001. And again in 2003 and 2004. He wasn't fired. Case in point, right there. And he came and had 5 straight seasons of 9+ wins, a couple with 11.
 
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#9,033
#9,033
whobethis16 said:
Paterno had back to back losing records in 2000 and 2001. And again in 2003 and 2004. He wasn't fired. Case in point, right there.
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Paterno won 2 NC and finished ranked in the top 5 nine times before 4 losing seasons. If he wasn't trying to beat Bowden for most wins in Div 1 all time he probably would have been fired, truth be known.
 
#9,035
#9,035
whobethis16 said:
He had a higher winning percentage for coaches with 10+ years coaching, a BCS title, and 2 SEC titles in the toughest conference in the country. So yes, I am.
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When you compare two entities you need to include both sides being compared. If you did that you would fall out of your chair laughing at the comparison.
 
#9,036
#9,036
hmanvolfan said:
When you compare two entities you need to include both sides being compared. If you did that you would fall out of your chair laughing at the comparison.
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We're talking about loyalty and being fired for a BS reason. Based on the numbers I provided, Paterno would've been run off from Tennessee if he was coaching here. I'm not arguing whether or not he is better, but based on the numbers, and the powerhouse that is the SEC when Fulmer was coaching, it was crap he was fired. And now we get to deal with the god-awful performances we've seen since then. And again, I am a Dooley fan and want him to be here a long time.
 
#9,037
#9,037
hmanvolfan said:
When you compare two entities you need to include both sides being compared. If you did that you would fall out of your chair laughing at the comparison.
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And in the years they both coached, Paterno had 4 losing seasons, 3 conference titles, and 0 national titles. Fulmer had 2, 2, and 1. It's not Phil's fault he's that much younger.
 
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#9,038
#9,038
whobethis16 said:
We're talking about loyalty and being fired for a BS reason. Based on the numbers I provided, Paterno would've been run off from Tennessee if he was coaching here. I'm not arguing whether or not he is better, but based on the numbers, and the powerhouse that is the SEC when Fulmer was coaching, it was crap he was fired. And now we get to deal with the god-awful performances we've seen since then. And again, I am a Dooley fan and want him to be here a long time.
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Whatever, he wasn't. The reason we have had the God awful performances is due to Coach Fulmer decimating the program with his decided disinterest in recruiting football players and Lane Kiffin's lunacy.
 
#9,039
#9,039
whobethis16 said:
And in the years they both coached, Paterno had 4 losing seasons, 3 conference titles, and 0 national titles. Fulmer had 2, 2, and 1. It's not Phil's fault he's that much younger.
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And it's not Paterno's fault he had most of his bigtime seasons when Fulmer wasn't the head caoch at Tennessee.
 
#9,040
#9,040
whobethis16 said:
He had a higher winning percentage for coaches with 10+ years coaching, a BCS title, and 2 SEC titles in the toughest conference in the country. So yes, I am.
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You would swear some of these folks were closet Gator fans the way the talk about Fulmer. Fulmer was easily on pace to have a Paterno like career. Against a much tougher league too. Easy comparison to make.
 
#9,041
#9,041
sonofUT62 said:
Kiffin is in no way shape or form a bad coach. Just a TERRIBLE person. The Raiders would have better had they listened to him seeing as he wanted Calvin Johnson instead of Jamarcus. We aren't in this mess because Kiffin is a bad coach. We're in this mess because Fulmers last recruiting class and Kiffins only full one were full of underachievers and criminals. And for the record Dooley wasn't the only coach we could have gotten. We could have had Calhoun if we paid more, we could have had Cut if Hammy would have let him bring his own assistants. I'm glad we have Dooley but you can rest assure that if it doesn't work out, we'll have a clear exit strategy and we won't get left at the alter this time.
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Kiffen doesn;t have to be a good person at USC, he can go within 200 miles of LA, and recruit the best talent in the state of California

He's in a dream position, he's young and recruiting hotspot, and he's also got his DAD
 
#9,042
#9,042
PimpVol said:
You would swear some of these folks were closet Gator fans the way the talk about Fulmer. Fulmer was easily on pace to have a Paterno like career. Against a much tougher league too. Easy comparison to make.
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And if a frog had a .45 he wouldn't be scared of snakes. I like and respect Coach Fulmer but by on pace you mean not having any titles and two losings seasons in his last ten years then I guess you have a point. :blink:
 
#9,046
#9,046
The only difference between 2005 5-7, 2006 9-4, 2007 10-4 and 2008 5-7 was David Cutcliffe. So many Fulmerites fail to accept the fact that if Cut had not come back for the 06-07 seasons Phil could have had losing seasons his last 4 years.

The first thing Cut noticed upon his return was lack of talent and depth on the OL, the lack of talent was a direct result of Phil concentrating more as an OC because he never trusted Sanders and less time at recruiting linemen which was his strong suit.

Remember the 2009 season? we started walk-ons and Freshmen OL, because we had no one else!
 
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#9,047
#9,047
hmanvolfan said:
And if a frog had a .45 he wouldn't be scared of snakes. I like and respect Coach Fulmer but by on pace you mean not having any titles and two losings seasons in his last ten years then I guess you have a point. :blink:
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If if's and buts were candy and nuts.... My point is I have been in this Fulmer debate for two years arguing for a Hall of Fame coach against a bunch of flippin' morons. Yesterday was a big hit for said morons. College Football thinks it was a HoF career just as I did. All that bunk about titles in 10 years and Urban Meyer and "a weak SEC" and whatever else you all hang your hat on really amounts to a bunch of pig shat now (as it always did). :birgits_giggle: -- Now, 152 wins over 17 years is on pace for 300 over 34. Clearly Paterno-esque. Now you have to somehow discredit the HoF, much like you have tried to do with Fulmer (and the SEC as a whole noless). Good luck with that. :whistling:
 
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#9,048
#9,048
No one in this thread has said that Phil would not make it to the HOF and that has not been the premise of your discussions in this thread for said 2 years. You have a case of butt hurt because not everyone views Phil the way you do, its as simple as that.

From 1992 thro 2000 Phil was a force to be reckoned with, after 2001 he began losing his edge for various reasons (Cut left for Ole Miss) and lost focus on recruiting. Phil still had a nice career but he was definately on the decline and I still say Hamilton did more to preserve his passage to the HOF than what you want to give him credit for.
 
#9,049
#9,049
GmanTN said:
The only difference between 2005 5-7, 2006 9-4, 2007 10-4 and 2008 5-7 was David Cutcliffe. So many Fulmerites fail to accept the fact that if Cut had not come back for the 06-07 seasons Phil could have had losing seasons his last 4 years.

The first thing Cut noticed upon his return was lack of talent and depth on the OL, the lack of talent was a direct result of Phil concentrating more as an OC because he never trusted Sanders and less time at recruiting linemen which was his strong suit.

Remember the 2009 season? we started walk-ons and Freshmen OL, because we had no one else!
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The only difference between Fulmer and 95 percent of college football coaches is being a Hall of Famer. -- Cutcliffe is a great offensive co-ordinator. As was Phil Fulmer. Fulmer easily outshines Cut as a head coach however. Cut and Chavis both are a huge part of our past success. They both deserve credit. Fulmer never fired either one, so apparently he knew it too. -- The 2nd thing Cut noticed when he got back was that he never should have left. -- Trying to separate years is one (of many) things the Fulmer haters mistakenly do that is not needed and which inherently flaws their argument. A career is best judged in it's totality, not in mere snippets. Sort of like it was yesterday. :salute:
 
#9,050
#9,050
GmanTN said:
No one in this thread has said that Phil would not make it to the HOF and that has not been the premise of your discussions in this thread for said 2 years. You have a case of butt hurt because not everyone views Phil the way you do, its as simple as that.

From 1992 thro 2000 Phil was a force to be reckoned with, after 2001 he began losing his edge for various reasons (Cut left for Ole Miss) and lost focus on recruiting. Phil still had a nice career but he was definately on the decline and I still say Hamilton did more to preserve his passage to the HOF than what you want to give him credit for.
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People in this thread have made an absolute mockery out of CPF. However, I am not hurt in my butt or anywhere else. I am actually quite happy. But anyhow, say what you wish. Give Hams all the credit you like too. Anyone but CPF. Just let the Hall take care of your light work for you :) .
 
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