Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

[GmanTN]

What does this have to do with anything? Vanderbilt beat KY 38-8 last year. Last yrs Vandy team was far and away better than KY. Vandy beat KY with KY having their QB play even. I blame the coaching staff 100%. We should have ran them out of the stadium last yr at UK. Did you see the stands? The stadium was half empty. Even the KY fans didnt think they would beat us as bad as we were.

Kentucky should have beat SEC East Champs GA the week before playing us. Their defense held GA in check all game and if it wasn't for a few tough breaks in that game the wildcats may have won.

Our offense lost that game, I understand where you want to blame the coaching staff but, how many coaches on offense knew going into that game that they were not going to be retained for the next season? Injured players, sick players and coaches who knew this was their last game coaching at UT all led up to the fiasco.

 

[Gramps]

What does this have to do with anything? Vanderbilt beat KY 38-8 last year. Last yrs Vandy team was far and away better than KY. Vandy beat KY with KY having their QB play even. I blame the coaching staff 100%. We should have ran them out of the stadium last yr at UK. Did you see the stands? The stadium was half empty. Even the KY fans didnt think they would beat us as bad as we were.

I think Randy Sanders deserves some credit for the KY win. He put together a very simple offense without a quarterback and his team played their hearts out.
It was a simple scheme and the Wilcox defense could not stop them when they needed to.

 

[whobethis16]

Kentucky should have beat SEC East Champs GA the week before playing us. Their defense held GA in check all game and if it wasn't for a few tough breaks in that game the wildcats may have won.

Our offense lost that game, I understand where you want to blame the coaching staff but, how many coaches on offense knew going into that game that they were not going to be retained for the next season? Injured players, sick players and coaches who knew this was their last game coaching at UT all led up to the fiasco.

So, you'll use the defense that coaches (only 2 years in the program, if that) knew it was their last game for last year's UK game, but not when the head coach of 17 years gets fired days before the Wyoming game? Really? Way to show the hypocricy and double standards of many UT fans.

 

[GmanTN]

So, you'll use the defense that coaches (only 2 years in the program, if that) knew it was their last game for last year's UK game, but not when the head coach of 17 years gets fired days before the Wyoming game? Really? Way to show the hypocricy and double standards of many UT fans.

A. Last I checked Wyoming is not a rivalry with us and KY is still a better football team than Wyoming.
B. Usually a HC firing rallies the troops to win for the coach who recruited them.
C. Position coaches are not the same as head coaches and if you have a job and you know at the end of the day you are going to be let go, are you going to try your hardest or say heck with it and not worry about it?
D. The talent level on the 2008 team versus the 2011 team was like daylight to dark, so based on talent alone we should have beat Wyoming.

 

[82_VOL_83]

2011 team had the least talent. No doubt. It just concerns me that this staff couldnt get the 2011 team ready to go win what should have been a cakewalk and a much needed bowl game looming. Not to mention the longest winning streak vs another opponent in the nation. I know that upsets happen, but, Im sure you saw the game. Ridiculous. Sorry dude, I told you many posts back, I hate KY.

What does this have to do with anything? Vanderbilt beat KY 38-8 last year. Last yrs Vandy team was far and away better than KY. Vandy beat KY with KY having their QB play even. I blame the coaching staff 100%. We should have ran them out of the stadium last yr at UK. Did you see the stands? The stadium was half empty. Even the KY fans didnt think they would beat us as bad as we were.

I think it obvious that you have never coached above Pee Wee. I have coached at the HS level for 9 years. I participated in both the TSHA (Tennessee State Hockey Association) and TSLA (Tennessee State Lacrosse Association). Every level you go, the less the coach has to do with motivation and more to do with planning and personnel management. I do NOT understand people on here that "Blame the coaches 100%" for TYLER BRAY, DA'RICK ROGERS, and the rest of the offense that just decided that they DID NOT want to play that day. There is little if anything that you can do to get a kid "fired up" at that level. The ONLY thing you can do is to get them to hustle in practice, learn the game plan, and provide them with the mental tools to go win the game. After that you can give them the "ole, win one for the gipper" speech, but that only goes so far.

However, if you are going to lay this kind of performance at the coaches feet, I have seen WAY more games that CPF coached that looked like the players either didn't want to play from down one or left at the half. These were teams with way more talent and depth. So when you are blaming a coach for players having down mental days, you need to go back and think of all the times when a game was over under CPF and you just sat there and thought "dang, I could take the loss if they just looked like they wanted to be here". Trust me, viewing game on TV from S. Florida, I thought that MANY times.

 

[justingroves]

.

 

[justingroves]

I do NOT understand people on here that "Blame the coaches 100%" for TYLER BRAY, DA'RICK ROGERS, and the rest of the offense that just decided that they DID NOT want to play that day. There is little if anything that you can do to get a kid "fired up" at that level.

However, if you are going to lay this kind of performance at the coaches feet, I have seen WAY more games that CPF coached that looked like the players either didn't want to play from down one or left at the half.

You don't put players on the field if they don't want to play? It was obvious Bray didn't look right from the first snap, due to the thumb, illness or not caring.

That's Fulmer's fault too.

 

[82_VOL_83]

You don't put players on the field if they don't want to play? It was obvious Bray didn't look right from the first snap, due to the thumb, illness or not caring.

That's Fulmer's fault too.

That is what can be blamed on CDD and CJC. Not the "having them ready". That is the point I am making. And yes, I have coached several teams where we lost games because our first line had players that just didn't want to be there that night. As a coach, you have to make the decision with the available talent at that time if a halfassed starter gives you a better chance than an under-talented player. That is the coaching part....as I said, game planning and personnel management. I can point to that during the KY game and say that CDD and CJC especially sucked that day, but to continue on and on about it is their job is to have them "fired up" come game time, that is the player's responsibility for the most part. And yes it is two different things. One is a gross generality used by those trying to tear down the current HC and staff and the other is actual decisions or lack there of that can be pointed to to say that CDD or CJW or CJC made a mistake here and it cost us or made a mistake there and it cost us. That I think most on VN, Fulmerites and Fulmergoners can agree on that.

 

[justingroves]

It's their (the coaches) job to make decisions that win ball games. They failed miserably in Lexington.

 

[whobethis16]

A. Last I checked Wyoming is not a rivalry with us and KY is still a better football team than Wyoming.
B. Usually a HC firing rallies the troops to win for the coach who recruited them.
C. Position coaches are not the same as head coaches and if you have a job and you know at the end of the day you are going to be let go, are you going to try your hardest or say heck with it and not worry about it?
D. The talent level on the 2008 team versus the 2011 team was like daylight to dark, so based on talent alone we should have beat Wyoming.

Again with point C: they all knew that the coaches were going to be gone, head and assistants, so maybe they all said the heck with it prior to the Wyoming game. Besides, it wasn't a rival or SEC game, so it didn't matter. You make this too easy, man.

 

[GmanTN]

Again with point C: they all knew that the coaches were going to be gone, head and assistants, so maybe they all said the heck with it prior to the Wyoming game. Besides, it wasn't a rival or SEC game, so it didn't matter. You make this too easy, man.

Wyoming record
2000-1-10
2001-2-9
2002-2-10
2003-4-8
2004-7-5
2005-4-7
2006-6-6
2007-5-7
2008-4-8

As bad as KY was last year they still would have beat Wyoming. Both were bad games but from a Talent standpoint the Wyoming loss hurt more because the talent was there to smash that team into pieces

 

[2ironVol]

Other than rampant speculation and other forms of guessery, no one knows either way whether CPF has turned down jobs or has been turned down for jobs. Pontificating as if you know one way or the other makes you look as if you are trying a bit to hard to prove your "case". Give it a rest. Fulmer is a SEC and National champion; and a HoF coach, what else does he need? -- Spurrier in high demand, not. Tuberville was in such high demand his school sent a plane in the middle of the night to court Harley Boy (who was busy courting himself most likely). Then he landed on his feet at, gulp, Texas Tech. You know, the football juggernaut replete with conference titles . Les Miles is hardly being asked to interview for jobs, sans Michigan a few years ago. Everybody would take Saban without a doubt. So, you have NO point as usual, and are just trying to take another shot at CPF. Go figure.

Sure they know. It was widely reported about Phillip's interest in Louisville and then widely reported that Louisville was going in another direction. Same thing with Kansas. Same thing with USF.

It's a fact he hasn't been sought after by any significant BCS school that has had openings. Now, Minnesota showed some interest and Phillip said he wasn't interested in going up there, but I wouldn't call Minnesota a significant BCS school by any measure in football.

 

[Big Orange 1]

Wyoming record
2000-1-10
2001-2-9
2002-2-10
2003-4-8
2004-7-5
2005-4-7
2006-6-6
2007-5-7
2008-4-8

As bad as KY was last year they still would have beat Wyoming. Both were bad games but from a Talent standpoint the Wyoming loss hurt more because the talent was there to smash that team into pieces

How do think the Wyoming loss hurt more? Other than the fact that CPF lost it. At the end of the 2005 season we all knew that we were going to have to rebuild with losing the HC. The KY loss killed the hope of (1) Going to a bowl game (2) Finishing last in the SECE(3) The (former) Streak. It was a momentum stopper, the last game of the year. Having to listen to that BIG BLUE sh87 all year. I just dont get it. How many Wyoming fans have you had to take crap from? The KY loss hurt UT way more than Wyoming ever did.

 

[whobethis16]

Wyoming record
2000-1-10
2001-2-9
2002-2-10
2003-4-8
2004-7-5
2005-4-7
2006-6-6
2007-5-7
2008-4-8

As bad as KY was last year they still would have beat Wyoming. Both were bad games but from a Talent standpoint the Wyoming loss hurt more because the talent was there to smash that team into pieces

Who cares about the record? One big argument you had for defending the UK loss is they gave up. Who's to say that they didn't give up before the Wyoming game? No one. You weren't in the locker room, you have no clue except your hatred for Fulmer. As the other guy said, the UK loss is significantly worse than the Wyoming loss much to the same reason the 1996 Memphis is not worse. Losing to an inferior conference team is always worse than a random non-conference team that we won't face for years, if not ever.

 

[2ironVol]

Both bad losses. Neither is worse

Still, after all this silly debate, the bottom line is that Fulmer got fired for allowing the program to slide into perpetual mediocrity and there's is no intelligent argument that he should still be our coach

 

[Big Orange 1]

Both bad losses. Neither is worse

Still, after all this silly debate, the bottom line is that Fulmer got fired for allowing the program to slide into perpetual mediocrity and there's is no intelligent argument that he should still be our coach

There is no intelligent argument that he should still be our coach, I'll agree. Based on what we have seen the past 3 years there is no intelligent argument that he shouldnt be our coach either.

 

[VolsDeep]

I'm just curious, what do Florida fans think of Urban Meyer? Does he get bashed by their fanbase for leaving the program for health reasons, only to take over OSU a year later? I was thinking of how long it's been since Fulmer last coached, but that he still garnered so much disdain from certain fans. There has to reach a point where people just let it go, right?

 

[2ironVol]

There is no intelligent argument that he should still be our coach, I'll agree. Based on what we have seen the past 3 years there is no intelligent argument that he shouldnt be our coach either.

I often get ignorantly labeled as a Fulmer hater because in retrospect, I can see exactly where Fulmer started this thing towards the ditch. That Fulmer shouldn't still be our coach IS the intelligent argument. The last three years has nothing to do with it but I can see you will never get that side of it.

 

[Big Orange 1]

I often get ignorantly labeled as a Fulmer hater because in retrospect, I can see exactly where Fulmer started this thing towards the ditch. That Fulmer shouldn't still be our coach IS the intelligent argument. The last three years has nothing to do with it but I can see you will never get that side of it.

It has everything to do with it. We have regressed the last (3) years. We werent as good last year as 2010, we werent as good in 2010 as in 2009. The only intelligent arguments on here are yours.

 

[82_VOL_83]

There is no intelligent argument that he should still be our coach, I'll agree. Based on what we have seen the past 3 years there is no intelligent argument that he shouldnt be our coach either.

Is a big part of the intelligent argument as to why he shouldn't be our head coach.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I'm just curious, what do Florida fans think of Urban Meyer? Does he get bashed by their fanbase for leaving the program for health reasons, only to take over OSU a year later? I was thinking of how long it's been since Fulmer last coached, but that he still garnered so much disdain from certain fans. There has to reach a point where people just let it go, right?

He doesn't get the flak as much as the people that continually put him on a pedestal by saying that he was as good when he was fired as he was in the 90's and should have been given carte blanche to "fix" the team. He should never have put the recruiting and the coaching staff in a position where it had to be fixed.

I often get ignorantly labeled as a Fulmer hater because in retrospect, I can see exactly where Fulmer started this thing towards the ditch. That Fulmer shouldn't still be our coach IS the intelligent argument. The last three years has nothing to do with it but I can see you will never get that side of it.

You can't say anything bad about Obama without being a racist either. Just comes with the territory. You aren't the only one 2iron, many of us are in that boat. You look at a situation and analyze it properly then do something about it. Using the Fulmerites philosophy, MLB teams would have an average age of 90 because they would just keep all the old players that the game has passed up because they just need that "one more year" and it will turn around.

Love him, respect him, DON'T hate him....Phil is gone and if we can EVER get to 10k posts we can move on.

 

[knoxvols1]

There is no intelligent argument that he should still be our coach, I'll agree. Based on what we have seen the past 3 years there is no intelligent argument that he shouldnt be our coach either.

If he was still the coach EVERYONE would be asking why is he still the coach because program would still be where it is with no sign of improving!
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Big Orange 1]

If he was still the coach EVERYONE would be asking why is he still the coach because program would still be where it is with no sign of improving!
Posted via VolNation Mobile

You're right. Everyone would be asking why he is still the coach. My point is once again and it always has been : It would have served the University better to have handled the firing of CPF with a little more integrity and class. If you don't think the way the whole CPF thing was handled hasnt scared off or made some coaches think twice about coaching at Tenn, then let me tell you about some swampland I have for sale. If UT is gonna fire a native son, former player, yada, yada, yada like this then why would an outsider take a chance on coming here.

 

[Gramps]

You're right. Everyone would be asking why he is still the coach. My point is once again and it always has been : It would have served the University better to have handled the firing of CPF with a little more integrity and class. If you don't think the way the whole CPF thing was handled hasnt scared off or made some coaches think twice about coaching at Tenn, then let me tell you about some swampland I have for sale. If UT is gonna fire a native son, former player, yada, yada, yada like this then why would an outsider take a chance on coming here.

How should the university have handled the firing of Fulmer IYO ?

You do agree he should have been fired, you disagree with the way he was fired, correct?

 

[Big Orange 1]

How should the university have handled the firing of Fulmer IYO ?

You do agree he should have been fired, you disagree with the way he was fired, correct?

I think for what that CPF meant to Tennessee, and what Tennessee meant to CPF, yes the NC, and the good record, etc. The VFL that he is, he should have at the very least been let go at the end of the season. I think that there is something to be said for someone who loves and bleeds for there school. The Nick Sabans and Lane Kiffins of the world who leave town in the middle of the night without warning are out there. Do you think Saban is Bama for life? Do you think Kiffin is USC for life?

If I was going to fire someone who worked for me, I would damn sure have a better replacement in line. I dont think CLK would have ever worked out here. CDD is yet to be determined.

Yes, It probably was time for a change, but the change that happened? ..........WEEEEEEELLLLLLL??