Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

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#9,451
#9,451
2ironVol said:
This year's team is past it, but every previous one's depth was due to Fulmer.

You are citing generalities and I cite specifics. That's why I've owned you University of Fulmer fans in this debate. In 2009, we started TWO walk-ons as result of Fulmer's inadequate job performance. We were pathetic along the interior lines. That is both inexcusable and unacceptable for a team that 10-15 years earlier, owned everone else in the trenches. When he was fired, the only players who left were deadbeats OR players who weren't living up to previous expectations. You can ignorantly cite a guy like Creer leaving, but RB wasn't a position where we were hurting. It was the offensive and defensive lines. To make excuses for Fulmer's failures to recruit and develop interior line players is pathetic. That's why we fell off so badly.
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:lolabove:
 
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#9,453
#9,453
whobethis16 said:
Yet, you don't forgive Fulmer for losing to Vandy in 05, despite "you are going to have a conference loss when you play in the hardest conference in college." There we go, back to the double standards. And you don't know any real UK fans, because I'm still hearing about that loss over and over from them.
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Here is what you can't seem to grasp over the Vandy loss in 2005. That team was horrible even tho Cutler was their QB, a TN team losing to little sister. I am and was a big fan of Cafego and TN should always be better than Vandy period. I have several fans who are UK fans and have yet to hear them brag about that win because they know it was a fluke and there is no comparisons between the 2 programs that relates to football.

whobethis16 said:
And if it isn't better this year, it's still Fulmer's fault? What about next year? 5 years down the road, and it will still be his fault? Just looking for a scapegoat.
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The last 4 seasons the seniors were all signed by Fulmer with the exception of Malik Jackson who just so happened to have been our best linemen. The Kiffin signed class was a huge bust with only a handful of players left from that signing class. If you do not think that we have been forced to play so many freshmen the past 2 years isn't the fault of Fulmer and Kiffin, you need to rethink it.

whobethis16 said:
It wasn't nearly as bad as people on here are making it out to be. It wasn't great, but certainly not as bad as people claim. The firing of him made it worse, but that was to be expected. However, last year should've been an improvement from 2010 no matter what, and it wasn't. THAT cannot be blamed on Fulmer, like you and others keep doing.
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No senior leadership, whose fault is that? Dooley who started in 2010, no. How about Kiffin? to an extent. What about Phil? Bingo we have a winner. I think the reason people keep saying we regressed from 2010 to 2011 is the record and lack of being able to hang in games. Well guess what Sherlock, we lost some talent to injuries, was playing a ton of freshmen and we had a very difficult schedule. When you add all 3 of those things up and factor in no real quality depth, guess what you have a hard time winning games.

whobethis16 said:
Depth comes with consistency. Players leave when their mentor and father figure gets the ax in a terrible way. Players don't want to jump on a ship that has no stability. They don't want to commit to a coach who may get canned and run the risk of having to go through a new system, worse, be released because the new coach wants to go in a new direction. THAT is what caused more lack of depth than Fulmer himself. What part of that don't you comprehend?
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Are you suggesting that every player that wore the orange and white while Phil was here was upset over his firing? Phil was known thru out his career of playing favorites so one would think the players who were not a favorite were very excited to see Phil go. The past 2 recruiting classes says you are out of touch with reality in thinking that good players won't come here to play.
 
#9,462
#9,462
PimpVol said:
The Vandy loss in 05 was not expected. Did not lose to Vandy in 08. Were not expected to, nor did we lose to Kentucky in 05, or 08.
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I was speaking more along the lines of going 5-7 in those years and not making a bowl game.
 
#9,468
#9,468
The only reason I have participated in this thread is I get tired of hearing how great Phil was and he could do no wrong. Phil had his bright moments but he also had times where he was completely out coached even tho he had a superior roster, allowed Spurrier to get into his head and own him, thought he had a lifetime contract with the university, had backed off recruiting linemen around 2000 and his self entitlement are my biggest issues with Phil.

I do feel he led a lot of fans on some very memorable moments and thru his success converted some fans into Vol fans. Thru all that Phil done for the program there is no excuse for the shape he left it in and anyone who thinks t was not his fault is turning a blind eye.
 
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#9,469
#9,469
PimpVol said:
Changing opinion was not my aim. I was/am tired of people running down CPF. Had to chime in. The personal attacks against me made it into a war. GoVols.
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I don't think a majority are running him down. We don't quite idolize him as you do, but do give him his due. He has an awesome record here not likely to be equalled, at least in my lifetime. I think most of us agree that he was basically done and was time to go. I personally think his "retirement" could have been handled better. I think with some cooperation from both the AD and CPF, we would not have had the hiccup that was spliffin. With the program already being down from a couple of tough recruiting years we took TWO steps backwards with spliffin telling a lot of CPFs incoming class no thanks and then leaving two weeks before his first full class was to sign. That was two hits (no pun intended for the 420 club) that put us two years behind. I often like to think what it would have been like if CPF had gone out with all the accolades he was due, we had hired CDD immediately and not had the spliffin speedbump. I think 09 would have been about the same, 10 would have been better, and I don't think we would have seen 11 like it was. My thoughts are that we needed a couple of good years post CPF to get on track and that the spliffin speedbump set us back 2 more years. Sorry, jmho.
 
#9,470
#9,470
Cut called the offense against Spurrier. Chavis called the D. Spurrier was in everybody's head. Not just Fulmers. Spurrier was truly a great coach. Give him all the credit in the world. But dont detract from our coach, who had a HoF career his damn self.
 
#9,471
#9,471
TNGlen said:
I don't think a majority are running him down. We don't quite idolize him as you do, but do give him his due. He has an awesome record here not likely to be equalled, at least in my lifetime. I think most of us agree that he was basically done and was time to go. I personally think his "retirement" could have been handled better. I think with some cooperation from both the AD and CPF, we would not have had the hiccup that was spliffin. With the program already being down from a couple of tough recruiting years we took TWO steps backwards with spliffin telling a lot of CPFs incoming class no thanks and then leaving two weeks before his first full class was to sign. That was two hits (no pun intended for the 420 club) that put us two years behind. I often like to think what it would have been like if CPF had gone out with all the accolades he was due, we had hired CDD immediately and not had the spliffin speedbump. I think 09 would have been about the same, 10 would have been better, and I don't think we would have seen 11 like it was. My thoughts are that we needed a couple of good years post CPF to get on track and that the spliffin speedbump set us back 2 more years. Sorry, jmho.
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No offense taken :) . Now, Fulmer was getting crushed on here. Period. I finally just had to get in here and point out the good. I dont worship idols. I recognize winners and champions. Phil was both. And a VOL. How he do any better than being those 3 things?
 
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#9,472
#9,472
From 1993-1998 with Cut calling the plays TN defeated Florida 1 time in 98, we also lost in 06-07 with Cut calling the plays.

From 1999-2005 with Sanders calling the plays the Vols beat the Gators in 2001, 2003 and in 2004.

Between Cut and Sanders the only one that Phil trusted with the offense was Cut but look like at the success rate and you scratch your head wondering why Phil placed all his trust with Cut.
 
#9,473
#9,473
GmanTN said:
From 1993-1998 with Cut calling the plays TN defeated Florida 1 time in 98, we also lost in 06-07 with Cut calling the plays.

From 1999-2005 with Sanders calling the plays the Vols beat the Gators in 2001, 2003 and in 2004.

Between Cut and Sanders the only one that Phil trusted with the offense was Cut but look like at the success rate and you scratch your head wondering why Phil placed all his trust with Cut.
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In my recollection of most of those Florida games the Vols scoring points wasn't the issue - stopping Florida was. Samples of Gator wins:
1993 41-34
1995 62-37
1996 35-29
1997 33-20

So if you want to blame Cut cause he couldn't out score Spurrier fine but the Vols inability to slow the Gators down was the real issue.
 
#9,474
#9,474
Not really placing blame on Cut just pointing to the fact that Phil trusted the offense more when Cut was running the show than he was with Sanders. No one was stopping Spurrier when he was at Florida and i'm sure Chavis was relieved when Spurrier took his show to the NFL and then came back and had to rebuild USC.
 
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