Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

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#9,426
#9,426
TNGlen said:
I think it obvious that you have never coached above Pee Wee. I have coached at the HS level for 9 years. I participated in both the TSHA (Tennessee State Hockey Association) and TSLA (Tennessee State Lacrosse Association). Every level you go, the less the coach has to do with motivation and more to do with planning and personnel management. I do NOT understand people on here that "Blame the coaches 100%" for TYLER BRAY, DA'RICK ROGERS, and the rest of the offense that just decided that they DID NOT want to play that day. There is little if anything that you can do to get a kid "fired up" at that level. The ONLY thing you can do is to get them to hustle in practice, learn the game plan, and provide them with the mental tools to go win the game. After that you can give them the "ole, win one for the gipper" speech, but that only goes so far.

However, if you are going to lay this kind of performance at the coaches feet, I have seen WAY more games that CPF coached that looked like the players either didn't want to play from down one or left at the half. These were teams with way more talent and depth. So when you are blaming a coach for players having down mental days, you need to go back and think of all the times when a game was over under CPF and you just sat there and thought "dang, I could take the loss if they just looked like they wanted to be here". Trust me, viewing game on TV from S. Florida, I thought that MANY times.
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did you ever see a Fulmer team lose to KY
 
#9,428
#9,428
Big Orange 1 said:
How do think the Wyoming loss hurt more? Other than the fact that CPF lost it. At the end of the 2005 season we all knew that we were going to have to rebuild with losing the HC. The KY loss killed the hope of (1) Going to a bowl game (2) Finishing last in the SECE(3) The (former) Streak. It was a momentum stopper, the last game of the year. Having to listen to that BIG BLUE sh87 all year. I just dont get it. How many Wyoming fans have you had to take crap from? The KY loss hurt UT way more than Wyoming ever did.
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I have yet to have a KY fan gloat over the fact they are 1-26 in the last 27 years against the Vols in football. If you run into some that are dumb enough to boast over a 1-26 record then you need to be smart enough to realize your dealing with a delusional fan and laugh it off and go on. I don't deal with Wyoming fans but the reason for me that loss hurt more is that it exposed how weak of a program we had become. The KY loss is painful but it is not the first time I have seen KY beat us and the fact they are at least an SEC team makes it more acceptable than losing to Wyoming.

whobethis16 said:
Who cares about the record? One big argument you had for defending the UK loss is they gave up. Who's to say that they didn't give up before the Wyoming game? No one. You weren't in the locker room, you have no clue except your hatred for Fulmer. As the other guy said, the UK loss is significantly worse than the Wyoming loss much to the same reason the 1996 Memphis is not worse. Losing to an inferior conference team is always worse than a random non-conference team that we won't face for years, if not ever.
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You are going to have a conference loss when you play in the hardest conference in college. As far as the team giving up against Wyoming, there was a lot more talent and senior leadership that should have been able to prevail in that game IMO.
 
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#9,429
#9,429
vol_in_il said:
did you ever see a Fulmer team lose to KY
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I saw a Fulmer team....one led by Peyton Manning and loaded with NFL talent lose to Memphis. This loss was far worse than last year's KY fiasco.

I also saw several Fulmer teams beat KY by getting lucky as hell.....I saw Fulmer lose to Vandy at home.....and then slide by the next time they played them at home due to their kicker missing a last second FG by the narrowest of margins.
 
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#9,430
#9,430
GmanTN said:
You are going to have a conference loss when you play in the hardest conference in college. As far as the team giving up against Wyoming, there was a lot more talent and senior leadership that should have been able to prevail in that game IMO.
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Yet, you don't forgive Fulmer for losing to Vandy in 05, despite "you are going to have a conference loss when you play in the hardest conference in college." There we go, back to the double standards. And you don't know any real UK fans, because I'm still hearing about that loss over and over from them.
 
#9,432
#9,432
Big Orange 1 said:
It has everything to do with it. We have regressed the last (3) years. We werent as good last year as 2010, we werent as good in 2010 as in 2009. The only intelligent arguments on here are yours.
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The reason we regressed is because Fulmer left the program in shambles.

In this case, you're right because your arguments are unintelligent and show a real lack of knowledge about the game and the condition our former coach left it in, which BTW, is EXACTLY why NO ONE wants him within sniffing distance of their program. Sorry, but that's the truth :yes:
 
#9,433
#9,433
2ironVol said:
The reason we regressed is because Fulmer left the program in shambles.

In this case, you're right because your arguments are unintelligent and show a real lack of knowledge about the game and the condition our former coach left it in, which BTW, is EXACTLY why NO ONE wants him within sniffing distance of their program. Sorry, but that's the truth :yes:
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And if it isn't better this year, it's still Fulmer's fault? What about next year? 5 years down the road, and it will still be his fault? Just looking for a scapegoat.
 
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#9,435
#9,435
2ironVol said:
At least make an effort to use some reason in your posts
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It's been 4 years. Quit blaming 2 staffs ago for today's problems. Things could have been looking better than they have despite "the mess" left by Fulmer, as some (yourself included) keep clinging to as justification.
 
#9,439
#9,439
whobethis16 said:
It's been 4 years. Quit blaming 2 staffs ago for today's problems. Things could have been looking better than they have despite "the mess" left by Fulmer, as some (yourself included) keep clinging to as justification.
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So you don't think Fulmer left a mess?

Sorry, but you need to do some work as to learning and researching the game of football and how it is developed at the collegiate level.

I guess the request for reason was ignored
 
#9,441
#9,441
2ironVol said:
So you don't think Fulmer left a mess?

Sorry, but you need to do some work as to learning and researching the game of football and how it is developed at the collegiate level.

I guess the request for reason was ignored
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It wasn't nearly as bad as people on here are making it out to be. It wasn't great, but certainly not as bad as people claim. The firing of him made it worse, but that was to be expected. However, last year should've been an improvement from 2010 no matter what, and it wasn't. THAT cannot be blamed on Fulmer, like you and others keep doing.
 
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#9,442
#9,442
vol_in_il said:
more importantly, I've only seen Dooley win 11 games, and only 4 SEC games, and I watched Fulmer win 152 with a National Championship
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What does one have to do with the other? Had the guy that won 152 games not let the program run into the ditch, we would have never heard of Derek Dooley. Hopefully, you're not trying to make the case that Fulmer shouldn't have been fired.
 
#9,444
#9,444
whobethis16 said:
It wasn't nearly as bad as people on here are making it out to be. It wasn't great, but certainly not as bad as people claim. The firing of him made it worse, but that was to be expected. However, last year should've been an improvement from 2010 no matter what, and it wasn't. THAT cannot be blamed on Fulmer, like you and others keep doing.
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Please take my advice on studying the game. This statment proves my point about you. Even Kiffin stated 2010 and 2011 were going to be tough years. And yes, it is almost completely on Fulmer as to the lack of quality depth across the board

You aren't comrehending anything I've posted.
 
#9,445
#9,445
2ironVol said:
Please take my advice on studying the game. This statment proves my point about you. Even Kiffin stated 2010 and 2011 were going to be tough years. And yes, it is almost completely on Fulmer as to the lack of quality depth across the board

You aren't comrehending anything I've posted.
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Depth comes with consistency. Players leave when their mentor and father figure gets the ax in a terrible way. Players don't want to jump on a ship that has no stability. They don't want to commit to a coach who may get canned and run the risk of having to go through a new system, worse, be released because the new coach wants to go in a new direction. THAT is what caused more lack of depth than Fulmer himself. What part of that don't you comprehend?
 
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#9,447
#9,447
Carl Pickens said:
I saw a Fulmer team....one led by Peyton Manning and loaded with NFL talent lose to Memphis. This loss was far worse than last year's KY fiasco.

I also saw several Fulmer teams beat KY by getting lucky as hell.....I saw Fulmer lose to Vandy at home.....and then slide by the next time they played them at home due to their kicker missing a last second FG by the narrowest of margins.
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I saw a Fulmer team.... one led by Peyton Manning and loaded with NFL talent beat Alabama. This win is far better than any win from last year's fiasco. Goes both ways, huh? I also saw several Fulmer teams beat the hell out of Kentucky, no luck involved. I saw Fulmer mash Vandy at home..... and then beat them at home again the next time regardless of their kicker or anyone else. Again.....goes both ways, with the wins far (by 100) out-numbering the losses. :snoring: , Please wake me when they have a point.
 
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#9,448
#9,448
whobethis16 said:
Depth comes with consistency. Players leave when their mentor and father figure gets the ax in a terrible way. Players don't want to jump on a ship that has no stability. They don't want to commit to a coach who may get canned and run the risk of having to go through a new system, worse, be released because the new coach wants to go in a new direction. THAT is what caused more lack of depth than Fulmer himself. What part of that don't you comprehend?
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This year's team is past it, but every previous one's depth was due to Fulmer.

You are citing generalities and I cite specifics. That's why I've owned you University of Fulmer fans in this debate. In 2009, we started TWO walk-ons as result of Fulmer's inadequate job performance. We were pathetic along the interior lines. That is both inexcusable and unacceptable for a team that 10-15 years earlier, owned everone else in the trenches. When he was fired, the only players who left were deadbeats OR players who weren't living up to previous expectations. You can ignorantly cite a guy like Creer leaving, but RB wasn't a position where we were hurting. It was the offensive and defensive lines. To make excuses for Fulmer's failures to recruit and develop interior line players is pathetic. That's why we fell off so badly.
 
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#9,449
#9,449
PimpVol said:
I saw a Fulmer team.... one led by Peyton Manning and loaded with NFL talent beat Alabama. This win is far better than any win from last year's fiasco. Goes both ways, huh? I also saw several Fulmer teams beat the hell out of Kentucky, no luck involved. I saw Fulmer mash Vandy at home..... and then beat them at home again the next time regardless of their kicker or anyone else. Again.....goes both ways, with the wins far (by 100) out-numbering the losses. :snoring: , Please wake me when they have a point.
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WE don't need to make a point. He was fired as he should have been. Case closed. Move on
 
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#9,450
#9,450
To say you dont have to make a point and then proceed to do your best impression of a Gator fan does not jibe. You have owned no one in this thread either. Maybe you are confused with another thread. Or, gulp, a tad bit delusional? Anyhow, Fulmer and his body of work have been properly recognized everywhere they should be. One day, maybe our "fans" will do they same. If not, the debate rages on. One which the Fulmer Haters can't possibly win (as facts are not on their side), but will still fight aimlessly. Carry on.
 
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