Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

Status
Not open for further replies.
#9,851
#9,851
whobethis16 said:
And we've now had 2 losing seasons in 3 years. What's your point? My point is Fulmer could've won every game that has been won thus far, and probably a couple more based purely on the kids would have played for the same coach for more than one year.
Click to expand...

Ok, lets say he did that. Then, that means, we are no better off and it means we have absolutely no chance of getting better if we go by your analogy. If he couldn't do it with a roster stacked from top to bottom with his own players, how in the world is keeping him around as HC going to improve the status of Tennessee football?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#9,852
#9,852
whobethis16 said:
And we've now had 2 losing seasons in 3 years. What's your point? My point is Fulmer could've won every game that has been won thus far, and probably a couple more based purely on the kids would have played for the same coach for more than one year.
Click to expand...
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#9,853
#9,853
knoxvols1 said:
Ok, lets say he did that. Then, that means, we are no better off and it means we have absolutely no chance of getting better if we go by your analogy. If he couldn't do it with a roster stacked from top to bottom with his own players, how in the world is keeping him around as HC going to improve the status of Tennessee football?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Unless I'm mistaken, 7-5 and actually earning a bowl bid is better than 5-7 or 6-6 and squeaking in to a bowl game (I am of the belief you should have a winning record to play in a bowl, not a .500 record, but that's a different argument). Slightly off topic, but I don't understand why any who still supports Fulmer is considered a negaVol. Despite my defense and all of Fulmer, I really like Dooley and hope that he'll have the success that Fuller did. But to continue blaming Fulmer for this, 4 years removed from the program, is ignorant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#9,854
#9,854
knoxvols1 said:
Ok, lets say he did that. Then, that means, we are no better off and it means we have absolutely no chance of getting better if we go by your analogy. If he couldn't do it with a roster stacked from top to bottom with his own players, how in the world is keeping him around as HC going to improve the status of Tennessee football?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

But as I've said a number of times, consistency goes a long way. I'm afraid that with the firing of a Hall of Fame coach after only a 2nd losing season and one year removed from playing for the conference championship and losing by one score to the eventual national champions, especially in the way it happened, hurts more than it helps. No big name wants the job because at the slightest sign of trouble, his head will be called for, great players won't commit as much because they would like to know that they'll play for the same coach for 3-4 years, etc.
 
#9,855
#9,855
whobethis16 said:
But as I've said a number of times, consistency goes a long way. I'm afraid that with the firing of a Hall of Fame coach after only a 2nd losing season and one year removed from playing for the conference championship and losing by one score to the eventual national champions, especially in the way it happened, hurts more than it helps. No big name wants the job because at the slightest sign of trouble, his head will be called for, great players won't commit as much because they would like to know that they'll play for the same coach for 3-4 years, etc.
Click to expand...

If there had not been warning signs inside the program as in lack of disclipine, arrests, players failing multiple drug tests etc, etc perhaps Phil would have been able to have survived, but when you add to that recruiting was not what it use to be and other red flags, it was too much to overcome.
 
#9,856
#9,856
whobethis16 said:
Unless I'm mistaken, 7-5 and actually earning a bowl bid is better than 5-7 or 6-6 and squeaking in to a bowl game (I am of the belief you should have a winning record to play in a bowl, not a .500 record, but that's a different argument). Slightly off topic, but I don't understand why any who still supports Fulmer is considered a negaVol. Despite my defense and all of Fulmer, I really like Dooley and hope that he'll have the success that Fuller did. But to continue blaming Fulmer for this, 4 years removed from the program, is ignorant.
Click to expand...

Perhaps lack of very much talent from the past 4 senior classes that Phil signed tends to point the finger to why he has had blame rightfully placed on him. Surely you can't forget the ex OL coach/HC had let his name to fame position go by the wayside which had us starting walk ons and freshmen his first year removed.
 
#9,857
#9,857
vol_in_il said:
.....it's the fact we haven't gotten a better coach yet
Click to expand...

Fulmer inherited a loaded roster; a strong recruiting program; and a conference that was considerably weaker than today's version.

Dooley inherited a roster so thin it was anorexic; a recruiting program that was in a shambles; and an SEC landscape that featured no less than 3 legitimate Top 5 programs.

There is literally no comparison between the two UT programs that Fulmer and Dooley inherited.

While I agree that Fulmer deserves to be recognized for his accomplishments at UT, and is well-deserving of the CFHOF, I also think it is premature to compare the two coaches at this point.

Dooley deserves the time and opportunity to ascend to the level from which Fulmer started.

Go Vols.
 
#9,858
#9,858
GmanTN said:
Perhaps lack of very much talent from the past 4 senior classes that Phil signed tends to point the finger to why he has had blame rightfully placed on him. Surely you can't forget the ex OL coach/HC had let his name to fame position go by the wayside which had us starting walk ons and freshmen his first year removed.
Click to expand...

And you don't think that Kiffin was going to avoid using any stragglers that were more loyal to Fulmer than to him? You honestly don't think that guys like Lathers, Rivera, Bartholomew, Waggner, and Teague would've been better today playing within the same system for 4 years instead of 3 different ones?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#9,859
#9,859
whobethis16 said:
And you don't think that Kiffin was going to avoid using any stragglers that were more loyal to Fulmer than to him? You honestly don't think that guys like Lathers, Rivera, Bartholomew, Waggner, and Teague would've been better today playing within the same system for 4 years instead of 3 different ones?
Click to expand...

Lathers has health issues he has battled his entire career, Rivera and Barthomew and P Wagg have done just fine for themselves. Teague was a receiver but the competition at the position was to much so he was switched to DB which he has struggled. Having Fulmer here would not have changed these players contributions to the team.
 
#9,860
#9,860
GmanTN said:
Lathers has health issues he has battled his entire career, Rivera and Barthomew and P Wagg have done just fine for themselves. Teague was a receiver but the competition at the position was to much so he was switched to DB which he has struggled. Having Fulmer here would not have changed these players contributions to the team.
Click to expand...

They've done well, but they could've been so much better with one system and completely excelling in it rather than spending so much time starting from square 1 every year.
 
#9,861
#9,861
GmanTN said:
If there had not been warning signs inside the program as in lack of disclipine, arrests, players failing multiple drug tests etc, etc perhaps Phil would have been able to have survived, but when you add to that recruiting was not what it use to be and other red flags, it was too much to overcome.
Click to expand...

the truth is Clawson's anemic offense was too much to overcome
 
#9,863
#9,863
You guys need to either post BS to 10,000 and then let's leave this thread alone or come up with a new discussion. I feel for the guys that are longtime members and have kept up with this thread since the beginning. CPF was great, he is HOF, he isn't going to come back and coach, CDD is here, he needs our support, and I wish he and CPF could shake hands and find a way to work together to speed our recovery.....I think CPF needs to do road duty to get us some linemen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#9,865
#9,865
The coach who loses the game gets the blame for losing the game. Or gets the credit for winning the game. It is this radical new concept called.... get ready for it..... a COACHING RECORD. It is a measure of a persons ability to take his team and beat the other team. Every coach has one. They do not need to be explained nor justified. All this blame non-sense is just that, non-sense. It exists only where it is allowed to exist, while records are kept in books and halls. Which one you going with????
 
#9,866
#9,866
We should go back and see who should "really" get the credit/ blame for all football coaches wins and losses. Would be an exercise in futility. Much like this entire thread.
 
#9,867
#9,867
PimpVol said:
The coach who loses the game gets the blame for losing the game. Or gets the credit for winning the game. It is this radical new concept called.... get ready for it..... a COACHING RECORD. It is a measure of a persons ability to take his team and beat the other team. Every coach has one. They do not need to be explained nor justified. All this blame non-sense is just that, non-sense. It exists only where it is allowed to exist, while records are kept in books and halls. Which one you going with????
Click to expand...

The state of the program has to be taken into account at the time of the coaching change. It is ludicrous not to consider the talent level etc at time of change.
 
#9,868
#9,868
GreyWolf1129 said:
Fulmer inherited a loaded roster; a strong recruiting program; and a conference that was considerably weaker than today's version.

Dooley inherited a roster so thin it was anorexic; a recruiting program that was in a shambles; and an SEC landscape that featured no less than 3 legitimate Top 5 programs.

There is literally no comparison between the two UT programs that Fulmer and Dooley inherited.

While I agree that Fulmer deserves to be recognized for his accomplishments at UT, and is well-deserving of the CFHOF, I also think it is premature to compare the two coaches at this point.

Dooley deserves the time and opportunity to ascend to the level from which Fulmer started.

Go Vols.
Click to expand...

I agree with pretty much everything you said; however, I wouldn't say the recruiting program dropped off, I just think the evaluation of talent dropped off towards the end of Fulmer's tenure. Atleast in the character aspect.... Kiffin did good for his one year and if anything this last recruiting class was a drop off from dooley's first class star wise.
 
#9,870
#9,870
whobethis16 said:
And you don't think that Kiffin was going to avoid using any stragglers that were more loyal to Fulmer than to him? You honestly don't think that guys like Lathers, Rivera, Bartholomew, Waggner, and Teague would've been better today playing within the same system for 4 years instead of 3 different ones?
Click to expand...

We have only played 3 seasons without Phil at the helm, don't understand how you get 4 years, 2008 Phil, 2009 Kiffin, 2010-2011 Dooley, that is 3 seasons.

whobethis16 said:
They've done well, but they could've been so much better with one system and completely excelling in it rather than spending so much time starting from square 1 every year.
Click to expand...

None of these players mentioned has had to start at square 1 every year with the exception of Teague and stating they would have been better is pure speculation on your part. One could also look at it has these players have been exposed to more football knowledge which could benefit them down the road to identify what the other team is trying to do.
 
#9,871
#9,871
whobethis16 said:
And you don't think that Kiffin was going to avoid using any stragglers that were more loyal to Fulmer than to him? You honestly don't think that guys like Lathers, Rivera, Bartholomew, Waggner, and Teague would've been better today playing within the same system for 4 years instead of 3 different ones?
Click to expand...

If memory serves me correctly when Kiffin arrived the OL was in complete melt down but Kiffin was not sitting players on the OL based on Loyality. Here is a brief statement from Josh McNeil entering the 2009 season:

Tennessee center Josh McNeil doesn’t mince words when talking about Tennessee’s plans for the offensive line this fall. He’s a fan, unabashedly so, of what the Vols hope to accomplish up front under first-year head coach Lane Kiffin.

“We’re probably more comfortable now, 10 times more comfortable now, than we were at this point last year by far,” McNeil says. “By far.”

McNeil is the Vols’ most experienced player with 35 consecutive starts heading into the season. Guards Jacques McClendon and Vladimir Richard platooned at guard last season opposite Anthony Parker, who departs along with right tackle Ramon Foster.

Chris Scott returns at left tackle, but spring practice failed to produce a clear-cut starter at right tackle.

Junior Jarrod Shaw and redshirt freshman Aaron Douglas are the leading candidates heading into fall camp, but neither is a sure thing.

From a depth standpoint, the Vols have little besides former walk-ons Cody Sullins, who pushed McNeil for the starting job during spring practice, and his brother, Cory Sullins.

McNeil will be lucky to be able to walk by the time he is 40 due to his knees being a wreck. It was a real shame that he was unable to stay healthy but in my mind Kiffin did him a good thing by putting the kids health first. If you recall the year before Josh would set out of practice during the season so he could play on Saturday. I blame Phil for using the kid like a rented mule in the trenches and not looking out for this kids best interest but instead thinking about his own.
 
New posts
Status
Not open for further replies.

VN Store



Back
Top