Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

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#10,802
#10,802
Big_Orange_Fan said:
I don't care what standards you measure it by. We are not better than we were 4 years ago. If you think we are well IDK. Somebody should have a better plan so we didn't end up in this situation. Someone F'ed up.
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We're not better than we were 4 years ago.

Still doesn't mean we made the wrong decision firing Fulmer.

When your car breaks down and is unrealiable no matter what you do, if the car you replace it with is a lemon it doesn't mean you shouldn't have gotten rid of the original clunker.
 
#10,806
#10,806
TheDeeble said:
We're not better than we were 4 years ago.

Still doesn't mean we made the wrong decision firing Fulmer.

When your car breaks down and is unrealiable no matter what you do, if the car you replace it with is a lemon it doesn't mean you shouldn't have gotten rid of the original clunker.
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Truthfully it's closer to having a car that runs alright but isn't pretty. You trade it in for a flashy looking car and find out it's a lemon and dies on you. So then you go out and find a car that you can afford and it dies. Now your sitting low on cash and hoping the next one is not a lemon.

Now if you can't admit you should have kept the first one that ran well, but wasn't the best. All I can tell you is you may have a hard time in this life. Pride is fine , but never be afraid to admit a mistake it's part of being an adult. This isn't about who's right or wrong it's about doing what's best for our team.

None of us make the decisions. It's not like you fired him. UT made a mistake simple as that. whether it be the firing or the hiring process. If the hiring process was messed up. Then that means he was fired before a competent replacement was found. Kiffen was not competent from day 1. Look at what he is doing at USC. They are getting ready to run him off.
 
#10,807
#10,807
Slydell said:
May not be looking in the right place. I'm afraid they're going K-Mart discount again. Hope I'm wrong.
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I'm hearing it's down to Gundy, Strong and someone that might have an interview in the morning. That per Hubbs if I'm correct.

They have confirmed now Gundy told his team he had talk to Tennessee and Arky. and that he has some decisions to make.
 
#10,808
#10,808
Big_Orange_Fan said:
Truthfully it's closer to having a car that runs alright but isn't pretty. You trade it in for a flashy looking car and find out it's a lemon and dies on you. So then you go out and find a car that you can afford and it dies. Now your sitting low on cash and hoping the next one is not a lemon.

Now if you can't admit you should have kept the first one that ran well, but wasn't the best. All I can tell you is you may have a hard time in this life. Pride is fine , but never be afraid to admit a mistake it's part of being an adult. This isn't about who's right or wrong it's about doing what's best for our team.

None of us make the decisions. It's not like you fired him. UT made a mistake simple as that. whether it be the firing or the hiring process. If the hiring process was messed up. Then that means he was fired before a competent replacement was found. Kiffen was not competent from day 1. Look at what he is doing at USC. They are getting ready to run him off.
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Kiffen has definitely proven his worth as of late. As you alluded to, you don't get rid of what you have unless you have a very good replacement ready to start. Any AD that does this is an idiot.
 
#10,810
#10,810
Slydell said:
Kiffen has definitely proven his worth as of late. As you alluded to, you don't get rid of what you have unless you have a very good replacement ready to start. Any AD that does this is an idiot.
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He just sacrificed his dad to keep his job one more year. I know because I'm in LA. Grew up here and my family is big USC fans and boosters. I moved to Tennessee in 91' and married a girl from Karns her family are huge Tennessee fans. My wife's mom and dad haven't missed a home game since 72'. That's when I fell in love with Tennessee football. And You will not find a bigger fan. I am very grateful for all the games I have been to in Neyland stadium. It's the greatest sports atmosphere in the world. Nothing like it anywhere else in my opinion. I wear my orange with pride and I still sport something UT everyday. There is no doubt who my team is.

I grew up going to every USC games. I remember watching Marcus Allen run for the Heisman. So trust me I'm here in LA now everyone want's him gone. They have already sent the moving truck. Like I said in the beginning he had to fire his dad and he knew that. That is why Monte left to save the embarrassment.
 
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#10,811
#10,811
TheDeeble said:
Not really. We had problems that were greater than a paint job. Recruiting, staff, and the other coaches that joined the SEC.
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That's opinion, but no numbers to prove it. All the numbers say he was slipping yes, but he still had us competitive. If we weren't competitive we wouldn't have been 1st in the SEC east 4 times from 2001-2007. I would agree if he had came in 2nd, 3rd or 4th on a regular basis. But 1st 4 time in 7 years isn't proving anything other than he had us in the big game and didn't win.
 
#10,812
#10,812
Slydell said:
Kiffen has definitely proven his worth as of late. As you alluded to, you don't get rid of what you have unless you have a very good replacement ready to start. Any AD that does this is an idiot.
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The entire last two hiring processes shows the ineptitude of Hamilton, so yes, he could be characterized in that way.
 
#10,813
#10,813
Big_Orange_Fan said:
That's opinion, but no numbers to prove it. All the numbers say he was slipping yes, but he still had us competitive. If we weren't competitive we wouldn't have been 1st in the SEC east 4 times from 2001-2007. I would agree if he had came in 2nd, 3rd or 4th on a regular basis. But 1st 4 time in 7 years isn't proving anything other than he had us in the big game and didn't win.
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How in Hades can you say he had us competitive? 21 losses in his last four years including two losing seasons? 21 losses, which I think is a Tennessee record for total losses in a four year period, at least a modern record.
 
#10,815
#10,815
whobethis16 said:
I think it's more that the Fulmer fans understand that success comes in waves. We were willing to be patient while others had a knee-jerk reaction that was over the top and now we are stuck in an even deeper hole than you all thought.[/QU Wasn't a knee jerk reaction. Two loosing seasons in four years afet many sub-par season. Keeping Fulmer around was like running a leaking tire with no tread on a car. Keep it on there and not only is the tire going to come apart but thr rim is going to be ruined and probably part of the car. The same anology can be attribbuted toward Phil. It wasn't fixed or replaced when it/he should have so now the football team/rim is ruined and part of the car/athletic department-firings and heat-is in trouble.
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#10,817
#10,817
sjrobert said:
How in Hades can you say he had us competitive? 21 losses in his last four years including two losing seasons? 21 losses, which I think is a Tennessee record for total losses in a four year period, at least a modern record.
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Where we in the 2007 SECCG? yes

We loss by 7 and our QB Ainge threw 2 int's in the 4th QTR.

Would you fire a coach that just won the SECCG.

Furthermore !

2001 1st in east
2003 Tied for 1st in east
2004 1st in east
2007 1st in the east

Last time i checked that's competitive.

Did he in the big game? Not as many as we would have liked, but we were in the big game. You don't make it to the big game for not being competitive. When was the last time you saw the 3rd, 4th or last place team in the big game? Never

Sorry, but that's the truth.
 
#10,818
#10,818
Big_Orange_Fan said:
But 1st 4 time in 7 years isn't proving anything other than he had us in the big game and didn't win.
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Had us in the big game and didn't win? Moral victories again? The Fulmerites want to overlook his last seven years of below average (winning) numbers, and chalk it up to something else, or whatever. TGFG.
 
#10,819
#10,819
Big_Orange_Fan said:
Where we in the 2007 SECCG? yes

We loss by 7 and our QB Ainge threw 2 int's in the 4th QTR.

Would you fire a coach that just won the SECCG.

Furthermore !

2001 1st in east
2003 Tied for 1st in east
2004 1st in east
2007 1st in the east

Last time i checked that's competitive.

Did he in the big game? Not as many as we would have liked, but we were in the big game. You don't make it to the big game for not being competitive. When was the last time you saw the 3rd, 4th or last place team in the big game? Never

Sorry, but that's the truth.
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Being competitive is more than being in an SECCG which Fulmer never won, after 98. But, that is probably PF's claim to fame, being the losing coach in the SECCG. Being competitive is being in the top 10, going to BCS bowls, getting positive national publicity, and a myriad of other things. Fulmer failed at all of that criteria, not one top 10 finish his last 9-10 years and not one BCS bowl.
 
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#10,820
#10,820
VolsRule said:
fulmer had to go, but the incompetent hamilton made two bad hires.
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So that makes it right?

If i had a car that ran well. Not the fastest and not even close to being pretty.

I go out and trade that car for one that looks good and run's not bad at the time. Six months later it dies on me.

Was it really the best move to trade my 1st car in? No it was a mistake.

Now I have no car and in a very bad situation.
The next car because I don't have a bunch of money will be a gamble. Hope I don't get another lemon.

If you can not see that it was a mistake to trade in the 1st one. Well you may make some terrible choices in life and it will cost you.
 
#10,821
#10,821
Big_Orange_Fan said:
So that makes it right?

If i had a car that ran well. Not the fastest and not even close to being pretty.

I go out and trade that car for one that looks good and run's not bad at the time. Six months later it dies on me.

Was it really the best move to trade my 1st car in? No it was a mistake.

Now I have no car and in a very bad situation.
The next car because I don't have a bunch of money will be a gamble. Hope I don't get another lemon.

If you can not see that it was a mistake to trade in the 1st one. Well you may make some terrible choices in life and it will cost you.
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Not a real close analogy at all.
 
#10,822
#10,822
sjrobert said:
Being competitive is more than being in an SECCG which Fulmer never won, after 98. But, that is probably PF's claim to fame, being the losing coach in the SECCG. Being competitive is being in the top 10, going to BCS bowls, getting positive national publicity, and a myraid of other things. Fulmer failed at all of that criteria, not one top 10 finish his last 9-10 years and not one BCS bowl.
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He finished in the top 25 13 out of 16 years.

How many schools wish they had problems back then.

Now Vol fans are begging for a 8-4 or 9-3 season.

How many times have we ended in the top 25 since he's left? 0

In 4 seasons not once. That's more time than Fulmer in his whole career.

Get a clue.
 
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#10,823
#10,823
Big_Orange_Fan said:
He finished in the top 25 13 out of 16 years.

How many schools wish they had problems back then.

Now Vol fans are begging for a 8-4 or 9-3 season.

How many times have we ended in the top 25 since he's left? 0

In 4 seasons not once. That's more time than Fulmer in his whole career.

Get a clue.
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Forget the top 25, all the polls did was to add five more also-rans to the top 20 and Fulmer failed to finish in the top 20, the long-time historical standard, five times in his 16+ years. As for getting a clue, I would admonish you to do the same.
 
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#10,824
#10,824
knoxvols1 said:
whobethis16 said:
I think it's more that the Fulmer fans understand that success comes in waves. We were willing to be patient while others had a knee-jerk reaction that was over the top and now we are stuck in an even deeper hole than you all thought.[/QU Wasn't a knee jerk reaction. Two loosing seasons in four years afet many sub-par season. Keeping Fulmer around was like running a leaking tire with no tread on a car. Keep it on there and not only is the tire going to come apart but thr rim is going to be ruined and probably part of the car. The same anology can be attribbuted toward Phil. It wasn't fixed or replaced when it/he should have so now the football team/rim is ruined and part of the car/athletic department-firings and heat-is in trouble.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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He's more like the classic car or your first car that, when time to replace the tire, it was decided to go cheap and a budget tire was bought (Clawson) and when that failed, it was decided the car was junk and tossed away instead of buying a better tire. And of course lemons were bought after that, and now we're stuck with a junkyard.

And, yet again, if Fulmer's last years were "subpar", I'd hate to hear what you call most of the 60s, 70s, and 80s of the program.
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#10,825
#10,825
sjrobert said:
Forget the top 25, all the polls did was to add five more also-rans to the top 20 and Fulmer failed to finish in the top 20, the long-time historical standard, five times in his 16+ years. As for getting a clue, I would admonish you to do the same.
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I have looking back at the last 4.
1 SEC win this season, you are right we are so much better.

2007 SECCG lost but made it. 6-2 in the SEC
2012 1 win against KENTUCKY really

We are so much better don't know how I couldn't see it.

Thank you for opening my eyes :bash:
 
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