Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

[JMSqb11]

And when was Meyers announced as HC vs when was Kiffin announced as HC?

They conducted a search off season as well hiring a proven coach. So far we have hired the flavor-of-the-month then a desperation hire. Jury is out on Butch but at least he has a pedigree, something the other two didnt.

apples to oranges

Dude, zook got fired after the MSU loss. Foley searched and interviewed as soon as te regular season ended. The whole urban thing was crazy cause he said he was gonna coach Utah in the BCS game. That's the only reason he was announced earlier

 

[GreveHaller]

CPF was a 16 year NC winning coach with multiple SECCG wins as well as appearances

Zook was a first time HC, was there only 3 seasons with no SECCG appearances.

Big difference firing a highly decorated HC mid season versus a newby midseason.

Dude

 

[sjrobert]

Big difference firing a highly decorated HC mid season versus a newby midseason.

Dude

:no:

 

[GreveHaller]

^^^^^ and that's where you fail

 

[VolsRule]

Big difference firing a highly decorated HC mid season versus a newby midseason.

because fulmer was "highly decorated" he should not have been fired? hmy:

 

[volfanecs]

Big difference firing a highly decorated HC mid season versus a newby midseason. /QUOTE]

because fulmer was "highly decorated" he should not have been fired? hmy:

He should not have been fired, because he was highly successful.

 

[Wylo]

He should not have been fired, because he was highly successful.

How were those last few Florida and Bama games, again?

 

[whobethis16]

How were those last few Florida and Bama games, again?

If you know anything about the history of the Bama series, then you should know that those go in streaks. Almost exclusively. By that standard, Majors should've been fired in 1987 due to losing by 19. He went 4-12 against the Tide, while Fulmer was 10-5 against them. Losses by Majors were by 14, 13, 10, 27(shutout), 19, 28, 19, 8, 17, 3, 5, and 7. Fulmer's losses were by 4, 20, 3, 24, and 20.

How've we faired since then? Only came close once against either of those teams, and that was because Bama laid an egg. There's no way that game should've been that close. Losses since were by 2 (fluke game), 31, 31, and 31. I'll take 10-5 vs. The Tide, thank you.

 

[Wylo]

90's Fulmer was long gone by the time he got fired.

All these numbers you want to spit out are pointless.

Many people knew it was time for a change, including his bosses.

Get over it.

 

[whobethis16]

90's Fulmer was long gone by the time he got fired.

All these numbers you want to spit out are pointless.

Many people knew it was time for a change, including his bosses.

Get over it.

Ok, 2000s Fulmer still went 4-4 against Bama. Just because you've won 4 national championships in 5 years on the Heisman level of your video game doesn't mean that is how it works in real life, particularly in today's world.

I still believe his "bosses", ie the donors, didn't want him touching Neyland's record, and they finally had an excuse to get rid of him. We won't have a coach win 150 games again, won't have one that bleeds orange like Fulmer, etc.

 

[volfanecs]

90's Fulmer was long gone by the time he got fired.

All these numbers you want to spit out are pointless.

Many people knew it was time for a change, including his bosses.

Get over it.

Tennessee made a bad mistake...YOU get over it.

 

[Wylo]

Tennessee made a bad mistake...YOU get over it.

As opposed to a good mistake???

I am plenty over it. He was fired. He will not coach at UT again. That is a good thing.

 

[whobethis16]

As opposed to a good mistake???

I am plenty over it. He was fired. He will not coach at UT again. That is a good thing.

If, which I'm not hoping for, Tennessee doesn't even make it to Atlanta in the next, let's say 5 years, will you still say that? Which would make it 10 years without even PLAYING for the title. Because at this point, that seems quite feasible.

 

[JohnnyBall]

Welcome back old friend..

This has to be the zombie thread of the internet.

 

[sjrobert]

90's Fulmer was long gone by the time he got fired.

All these numbers you want to spit out are pointless.

Many people knew it was time for a change, including his bosses.

But, selective comparisons using rosy numbers against teams with arguably "more mediocre" coaches than PF is the "M.O." Always will be.

 

[sjrobert]

He should not have been fired, because he was highly successful.

Only in the 90s was he highly successful, average after 2001, and below average his last four years. No top tens, no top fives, no BCS bowls for a decade.

 

[whobethis16]

Only in the 90s was he highly successful, average after 2001, and below average his last four years. No top tens, no top fives, no BCS bowls for a decade.

And no top 25s (minus one week, only to hype up the upcoming game) since. Brilliant.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

In most cases a replacement is not in place.

Was Jones in place when Dooley was fired?

To fire a proven winner and champion, you should have a plan. Or you were guilty of working without a plan. Hams is/was guilty as charged. Some loser coach who has not won shat can be dropped at the drop of a dime if you like. But not one of the best in league history. Dumb arse move that has NOT payed off 5 years later. Not in the least.

 

[whobethis16]

Only in the 90s was he highly successful, average after 2001, and below average his last four years. No top tens, no top fives, no BCS bowls for a decade.

Keep this in mind, regarding competing for SEC Championships in the 2000s

Florida: 4 appearances, 3-1 (1, 1-0)
LSU: 4 appearances, 3-1 (4, 3-1)
UGA: 3 appearances, 2-1 (3, 2-1)
Tennessee: 3 appearances, 0-3 (3, 0-3)
Auburn: 2 appearances, 1-1 (1, 1-0)
Alabama: 2 appearances, 1-1 (1, 0-1)
Arkansas: 2 appearances, 0-2 (2, 0-2)

Parentheses are times during Fulmer's last 8 years as coach. Comparing Fulmer's last 8 years to Bama and Florida regarding competing for championships show that Fulmer competed more often than both of them combined. And tied with UGA.

 

[Big Orange 1]

He sucked as a recruiter. Only 6 players of his are in the Pro Bowl this year. Darn you Phil.

 

[Gramps]

CPF was a 16 year NC winning coach with multiple SECCG wins as well as appearances

Zook was a first time HC, was there only 3 seasons with no SECCG appearances.

Big difference firing a highly decorated HC mid season versus a newby midseason.

Dude

Not really.. They both were doing a bad job AT THE TIME and both were rightfully fired, no difference, fired is fired. The only difference I see was in the buyouts. Thanks to Hammy, Fulmer received 2-3 million more than he should have.

 

[Spartacavolus]

As a business owner, if I start slacking, it's not going to go well. And if I delegate, I sure as hell better make sure I delegate properly and make sure all are on the same page, which is my page. Leaving guys like Pat Wash and Sanders on the staff, and hiring Clawson were bad decisions. That along with not adapting as newer coaches and newer schemes came about cost him his job. It's unfortunate. You watch the 90's and we were incredible. Things change and they did, for the worse. Companies are run into the ground on a daily basis due to people in charge not making the right decisions and taking companies in the wrong direction. I've been around startups that turn into multimillion dollar companies, but bad plans and decisions leave everyone with their dick in their hand wondering wtf happened.
We should appreciate PF for bringing the NC and having some badass teams, as well as a true VFL. Lack of respect shown towards him for those times is absurd.
We should also be able to be objective enough to realize what was happening within the program and around us when he was fired.
The handling of the firing is an entirely different issue and noone should think it was done properly.

 

[whobethis16]

Only in the 90s was he highly successful, average after 2001, and below average his last four years. No top tens, no top fives, no BCS bowls for a decade.

And wrong.
2001: 4th in AP, 6th in the BCS.
2003: 15th in AP, 8th in the BCS

A decade is 10 years, and Fulmer made the top ten in shorter than a decade.

 

[sjrobert]

And wrong.
2001: 4th in AP, 6th in the BCS.
2003: 15th in AP, 8th in the BCS

A decade is 10 years, and Fulmer made the top ten in shorter than a decade.

I stand corrected on the decade statement, PF did make the top ten once in his last nine years in the coaches and AP polls, 2001, when UT was 4th in both polls. And BCS? Where in Hades does BCS come into play? No one references a so-called BCS poll. In 2003 UT played in the Peach Bowl, not a BCS bowl. Again, selective, very selective, stats and incorrect and pointless as someone mentioned. BCS polls? Get real. BCS matters only for BCS bowl selections. And how many BCS bowls did PF have after the NC year? How many top ten finishes from 2002-2008? Not even any top 20 finishes from 02-08. All of which has been referenced before, innumerable times.

 

[whobethis16]

I stand corrected on the decade statement, PF did make the top ten once in his last nine years in the coaches and AP polls, 2001 when UT was 4th in both polls. And BCS? Where in Hades does BCS come into play? No one references a so-called BCS poll. In 2003 UT played in the Peach Bowl, not a BCS bowl. Again, selective, very selective, stats and incorrect and pointless as someone mentioned. BCS polls? Get real. BCS matters only for BCS bowl selections.

Same as the random publications that people claim as national championships. if there was an actual BCS title game that year, Tennessee would've been in the Sugar Bowl. That's the point.

But I'd still take multiple top 15 finishes and my argument completely counteracting anything promoting Bama/Florida in Fulmer's last 8 years, over what we will probably see over the next 5.