Fulmer Debate II

#76
#76
VegasVol said:
And what pure unbridled joy it has been. His defenders predicted this -- that without Fulmer, we would become truly irrelevant, a national afterthought, returning to most of the years in the 1980's when we were usually irrelevant (1985 wonderfully exempted, but that's also why that year is so memorable in Tennessee fans' heads -- it was so unusual back then for a season like 1985 to exist) before Fulmer's rise within the program. Fulmer supporters saw a Fulmer-less Tennessee team with years of 6-loss seasons to come.

By contrast, his critics promised quick return to glory, which they said only Fulmer was holding back, with coaches begging to come here, and 11-win seasons right around the corner.

We now know who was right and who was wrong.
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so you believe that the last four years vindicate Fulmer?


No one said there would be quick return to relevance. We haven't been nationally relevant since 2001.

And only the dumbest, most ignorant portion of our fan base make the comments you're making.
 
#80
#80
99gator said:
I updated this post from earlier.

It speaks for itself
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That proves what an incredibly incompetent AD Hamilton was.

Fwiw, we have Fulmer to thank for Hamilton getting the job. If I remember right, it was going to be Eric Hyman (sp?) who's at A&M and S Carolina before that.
 
#81
#81
bamacheats said:
That proves what an incredibly incompetent AD Hamilton was.

Fwiw, we have Fulmer to thank for Hamilton getting the job. If I remember right, it was going to be Eric Hyman (sp?) who's at A&M and S Carolina before that.
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None of that is the point.

The point is the man did his job and did it well for a long time.

The proof of that is that his replacements have not come close to performing their job as well as he did (current coach excused because he just got the job).

In addition, his performance will be hard to match because few people who have had his job performed at that level.

He is not foolmore. He is not an idiot. He is not the architect of the destruction of Tennessee football.

What he is, is the best damn coach most of you will see in your lifetime at tennessee.
 
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#82
#82
99gator said:
None of that is the point.

The point is the man did his job and did it well for a long time.

The proof of that is that his replacements have not come close to performing their job as well as he did (current coach excused because he just got the job).

In addition, his performance will be hard to match because few people who have had his job performed at that level.

He is not foolmore. He is not an idiot. He is not the architect of the destruction of Tennessee football.

What he is, is the best damn coach most of you will see in your lifetime at tennessee.
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good grief just stop. The issue with Fulmer is the obvious downward coast in his later years. Very few knock him for his overall performance pre-2001 (even up to 2004)
 
#83
#83
It's all about recruiting. Fulmer recruited great for years. Then he tailed off and the team record dropped. Since he was "retired" we have not recruited worth a damn and the record shows that. If you can recruit (Butch), you will do fine in the SEC but Kiffin and Dooley both badly failed at recruiting.
 
#84
#84
utvolpj said:
good grief just stop. The issue with Fulmer is the obvious downward coast in his later years. Very few knock him for his overall performance pre-2001 (even up to 2004)
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Tennessee was 57-32 from 2002 through 2008.

Most of the board would kill for an average season of 8-4 right now.

Tennessee will not even come close to the 57-32 mark of the last 7 years of fulmer.

Tennessee is 25-29 in the 4+ years since he's been gone.
 
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#85
#85
99gator said:
Tennessee was 57-32 from 2002 through 2008.

Most of the board would kill for an average season of 8-4 right now.

Tennessee will not even come close to the 57-32 mark of the last 7 years of fulmer.

Tennessee is 31-36 in the 4+ years since he's been gone.
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he was 29-21 in his last 4 years. He was getting absolutely abused by our rivals and their upgraded coaching staffs both on the field and in living rooms.

the performance of his replacements has nothing to do with whether he needed to be replaced.
 
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#86
#86
99gator said:
He is not foolmore. He is not an idiot. He is not the architect of the destruction of Tennessee football.

What he is, is the best damn coach most of you will see in your lifetime at tennessee.
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Might as well quit while your ahead. It's not that you are wrong in anyway... Though I hope you are wrong about in our lifetime, I think we can get back... but we certainly did this to ourselves getting to where we are.

You just have no idea just how delusional the people you're trying to convince are. Nor how deeply invested they are into the politics of denial.....they will sooner trash Fulmer then even admit it might have even been wiser to wait until the end of the season and make his departure classy. Anyone who dares mention that it was a bad move in anyway is a "Fulmerite", yet it's they that seem to have the cult like refusal to acknowledge reality. "They" are not just fans, this bent world view includes some boosters and others who can't, and don't dare make any acknowledgement of wrong doing, or that a mistake was made. To do so would also mean to acknowledge their part in destroying the prestige of the UT program. That won't happen.......regardless of if it is true.

I doubt one could convince Decimus Junius Brutus or Marcos Brutos that they were responsible for the fall of the Roman Republic by assassinating Caeser either. When accepting the truth means accepting the blood on your hands, it doesn't come easy, and Fulmer was stabbed politically by some big egos in University of Tennessee politics. They will never ever admit wrong doing, and their lackeys will parrot their arguments to the end.
 
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#89
#89
utvolpj said:
he was 29-21 in his last 4 years. He was getting absolutely abused by our rivals and their upgraded coaching staffs both on the field and in living rooms.

the performance of his replacements has nothing to do with whether he needed to be replaced.
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It has everything to do with it...

Fulmer would of won the east ATLEAST 1/4 of the last four years, honestly I'd say 2/4.

Fulmer would of embarrassed muschamp and Florida last week. 38-7
 
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#90
#90
Vol4life25 said:
It has everything to do with it...

Fulmer would of won the east ATLEAST 1/4 of the last four years, honestly I'd say 2/4.

Fulmer would of embarrassed muschamp and Florida last week. 38-7
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good grief if you're going to make up fantasies at least have UT winning the national title.
 
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#91
#91
99gator said:
Tennessee was 57-32 from 2002 through 2008.

Most of the board would kill for an average season of 8-4 right now.

Tennessee will not even come close to the 57-32 mark of the last 7 years of fulmer.

Tennessee is 25-29 in the 4+ years since he's been gone.
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Only a Fulmoron would kill for an 8-4 average.

We've won just as many championships after firing Fulmer that we would've won by keeping him.
 
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#92
#92
Vol4life25 said:
It has everything to do with it...

Fulmer would of won the east ATLEAST 1/4 of the last four years, honestly I'd say 2/4.

Fulmer would of embarrassed muschamp and Florida last week. 38-7
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Leave it to a Fulmoron to think there's an "east" championship.
 
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#93
#93
bamacheats said:
Leave it to a Fulmoron to think there's an "east" championship.
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or dumba$$es that think he wouldnt.

You and 114 keep thinking that way. Its quite obvious that the overwelming majority of fans are seeing that the grass wasnt greener on the other side and how bad it hurt the program. But you keep on. I bet you two you two still have a mullet because you think it hasnt gone out of style either.
 
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#94
#94
GreveHaller said:
or dumba$$es that think he wouldnt.

You and 114 keep thinking that way. Its quite obvious that the overwelming majority of fans are seeing that the grass wasnt greener on the other side and how bad it hurt the program. But you keep on. I bet you two you two still have a mullet because you think it hasnt gone out of style either.
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Cause Hamilton could've hired Brian Kelly instead of Kiffin, and Sumlin instead of Doodey.

You Fulmorons are an intelligent bunch.
 
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#97
#97
By setting his record against our record since him, I wasn't saying we should have kept him. He was at the end of the line. I agree that Hamilton is to blame for God awful hires, but bashing Fulmer is absurd. He is a legend and we were lucky to have him for so long.
 
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#98
#98
GreveHaller said:
or dumba$$es that think he wouldnt.

You and 114 keep thinking that way. Its quite obvious that the overwelming majority of fans are seeing that the grass wasnt greener on the other side and how bad it hurt the program. But you keep on. I bet you two you two still have a mullet because you think it hasnt gone out of style either.
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I am glad that people are recoginizing the grass wasn't greener. I never thought it was. I wasn't thrilled with the way Fulmer did in 2008 and even before then, but I always thought we would be better off giving him a few more years and then making a change if/when he decided to step down on his own.

The reason is that coaching changes following a successful coach at a major program go BADLY more often than not. Look at Nebraska, Michigan, and bammer prior to Saban getting there, and there are many others.

OTOH, while FSU was mediocre for a few years from keeping Bowden around, they never fell off the wagon completely and now they appear to be back, though it's too early in the season to say for sure, but there is no question that Jimbo Fisher has them playing their best in about 10 years.

Whatever....it's water under the bridge now. Tennessee has to move forward and not back. I am going to say that the Oregon and Florida games are what I would have expected under Dooley....if not worse, and that Butch can effect an improvement the rest of the season. It's going to be a long, tough haul, but I will be behind the program all the way.
 
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#99
#99
utvolpj said:
he was 29-21 in his last 4 years. He was getting absolutely abused by our rivals and their upgraded coaching staffs both on the field and in living rooms.

the performance of his replacements has nothing to do with whether he needed to be replaced.
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While this is true, we have hired 3 coaches who have no real experience or history of our rivals. I AM NOT BASHING BUTCH AT ALL. Just saying that it took 2 coaches who knew nothing about our rivals and history and simply, they didn't care. Fulmer knew and breathed and bled the way of the SEC.

Who would you trust to turn it around? 2 guys who were clueless about history and how the other team operates or someone who grew up in it? I take my chances with the knowledgeable one.

The on thing I will give BJ big time is that he has shown initiative to learn the history and embrace traditions. I just had we had to strike out with two goons and 4 years of crap that sabotages Butch. We won't be relevant for 4 years minimum. Essentially, firing Fulmer will have resulted in us gasping for air and dragging along the bottom dwellers of the SEC for 8-9 years.

Once again, I know Butch will get this job done. I just feel that I would have trusted Fulmer to turn it around in 4 years rather than waiting 8-9 years to become relevant for winning games, not giving them away. In other words, 09 UF/Bama, 10 LSU/UNC 12 UF 13 UF
 
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#100
#100
bamacheats said:
Leave it to a Fulmoron to think there's an "east" championship.
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He didn't say anything about an east championship. He said Fulmer would of(sic) won the east. And yes, each year, someone "wins" the East division, and someone "wins" the West division. To play in the conference championship, you must "win" your division. Utter failure on your part for trying to make fun of him for saying that.
 
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