Fulmers still in Denial

[smokedog#3]

i have to disagree with you hillbilly. usually we are pretty close to being on the same page, but unless our offense shows something there is no such thing as a easy game for tennessee. like i said before i think the rest of the sec has caught tennessee in terms of talent which in my opinion is not good because they have the better coaches. gee when cut was at tennessee the first time around look at the talent on the teams, i don't see that kind of talent on this team. he has had mannings, great o-lineman, great runningbacks, great recievers. the only thing that looks good on our offense coming back is foster. i see another long and boring season in store for us this year and not much else. i have no faith in ainge who will be the starter, our o-line maybe the worst in the sec east, recievers can't catch, and not much at tight end. i also think our D will slip alittle bit to this year. sooner or later you have to look at the facts, fulmer is a average coach, great recruiter which will win you games when you are supieror on talent, but when we play georgia, florida, lsu, auburn, you have to pick the other team. they have better coaches and have caught us in talent. we will either be 8-4 or 7-5 this year and i hate to say it as long as phil is here that will probably be the norm, with no sec championship in site. :devilsmoke:

 

[jakez4ut]

i have to disagree with you hillbilly. usually we are pretty close to being on the same page, but unless our offense shows something there is no such thing as a easy game for tennessee. like i said before i think the rest of the sec has caught tennessee in terms of talent which in my opinion is not good because they have the better coaches. gee when cut was at tennessee the first time around look at the talent on the teams, i don't see that kind of talent on this team. he has had mannings, great o-lineman, great runningbacks, great recievers. the only thing that looks good on our offense coming back is foster. i see another long and boring season in store for us this year and not much else. i have no faith in ainge who will be the starter, our o-line maybe the worst in the sec east, recievers can't catch, and not much at tight end. i also think our D will slip alittle bit to this year. sooner or later you have to look at the facts, fulmer is a average coach, great recruiter which will win you games when you are supieror on talent, but when we play georgia, florida, lsu, auburn, you have to pick the other team. they have better coaches and have caught us in talent. we will either be 8-4 or 7-5 this year and i hate to say it as long as phil is here that will probably be the norm, with no sec championship in site. :devilsmoke:

Well smoke, you certainly have reason to believe all of the above based on last year's results. Can't argue that at all.

but one of the biggest issues this team had and has had the past few years was lack of discipline and development. Many, and i don't know that you were one of them, thought the prime culprit of that was Randy Sanders. He's no longer there, and so is JRS, another sub par coach in some people's eyes. (personally, i never thought JRS did that great of a job, so i am glad they are trying something new there)

But to say that the rest of the SEC has caught up with TN, which there may be some truth to that, given our dominance over UGA in the 90's especially, and LSU and their resurgence to the top of the SEC. But if memory serves Bama (at least in the early 90's) and UF (esp. in the early and mid 90's) were ahead of or equal to UT during our run in the 90's and UGA wasn't exactly barren of talent. they truly had poor coaching, esp. if we were able to beat them as regularly as we did in the 90's with CPF as our coach, at least that's what you'd have to assume if you believe that CPF is really that bad.

I think though you have to look at last year and say, we have to be better than that. we just have to. I truly can't see us having the same type of year we did last year.

I posted in another thread the other day that i don't know if all the coaching changes and stuff will translate in to W's next season, but i have to think that going forward if we lose games, that at the very least we will lose those games because the other team was just better than us. NOT because we continually beat ourselves with penalties, drops, turnovers and poor special teams play.

Personally, i do think we will win 9 games next season. I think we are capable of that. I think LSU and UF are better than us right now. and i think we are on par with UGA and Bama right now, given their losses on offense this past season. And the rest, save Cal becaise i don't know that much about them, but they won't suck, we should be able to beat. though the ARK game could be a tricky one. I think they may be very much improved this season.

 

[cotton]

That's a very Pollyanna view. It could be worse, so don't complain. It hasn't been one 8-4 season. That's the average for the last 4 years. If our program is on a level where Arkansas and South Carolina are considered peers, we should drop football and use the money on academic facilities.

I think I stated very clearly that I was referring to a four year period. A four year period, I might add, that saw our teams underacheive ('05,) and overachieve despite injuries ('04.) During that same four year period, some of our rivals, namely Auburn, LSU, and Georgia, have seen some of the greatest successes in their respective histories. I don't like an 8-4 average, but some times in this league it is going to happen to every team.

As for my Pollyanna view, let me ask you this: what makes us better than Arkansas or South Carolina? Tradition? I think Arkansas would disagree with you there. Fan support? Both teams have great followings. In-state recruiting base? I think we are third in that race. Facilities? All three schools are top notch. Yet they are not our peers. I doubt anyone would claim that either program right now is equal to Tennessee. Maybe that is an indication that the athletic administration, coaches included, are doing something right.

 

[hatvol96]

I think I stated very clearly that I was referring to a four year period. A four year period, I might add, that saw our teams underacheive ('05,) and overachieve despite injuries ('04.) During that same four year period, some of our rivals, namely Auburn, LSU, and Georgia, have seen some of the greatest successes in their respective histories. I don't like an 8-4 average, but some times in this league it is going to happen to every team.

As for my Pollyanna view, let me ask you this: what makes us better than Arkansas or South Carolina? Tradition? I think Arkansas would disagree with you there. Fan support? Both teams have great followings. In-state recruiting base? I think we are third in that race. Facilities? All three schools are top notch. Yet they are not our peers. I doubt anyone would claim that either program right now is equal to Tennessee. Maybe that is an indication that the athletic administration, coaches included, are doing something right.

If Arkansas fans would disagree about tradition, they need to be drug tested promptly. They haven't been nationally relevant since the late '60s. Arkansas has a tough time filling their stadium. Have you confused Arkansas football with Razorback basketball? I've been to Fayettenam and Columbia. Calling those facilities top notch is extremely generous.

 

[smokedog#3]

i don't know hatevol, i was sitting at sky harbor airport a couple of days ago and talking to a hog from fayetteville and he wanted fulmer. he agreed fulmer wasn't the best coach, but he hated nutt. i guess it could always get worse. :devilsmoke:

 

[hatvol96]

i don't know hatevol, i was sitting at sky harbor airport a couple of days ago and talking to a hog from fayetteville and he wanted fulmer. he agreed fulmer wasn't the best coach, but he hated nutt. i guess it could always get worse. :devilsmoke:

Sky Harbor? Is that Phoenix?

 

[cotton]

If Arkansas fans would disagree about tradition, they need to be drug tested promptly. They haven't been nationally relevant since the late '60s. Arkansas has a tough time filling their stadium. Have you confused Arkansas football with Razorback basketball? I've been to Fayettenam and Columbia. Calling those facilities top notch is extremely generous.

Eh, that's a little tough on a school that won 13 conference titles and won one national championship and lost another in "the Big Shootout." By that rationale, UT wasn't nationally relevant between '51 and '98, but I'll let you pick your side on that argument. Also, what would you call a recently renovated 75,000 seat stadium in Fayetteville or an 85,000 seat stadium in Columbia (soon to be expanded to 95k?)

Any way, my point was that we are above the SCs and Arkansases of the world, but it is not because of some tremendous natural advantage such as facilities or recruiting base or tradition. My opinion is that at least some credit has to be given to the people running the show, as much as that might irk some on this board.

 

[smokedog#3]

yep that is in phoenix, i was sitting there waiting for my flight back to nashville with my tennessee hat on and this guy sat down and started talking to me. he was alot like me, happy with his basketball program, alittle disgusted wtih their football program. pretty good fellow none the less. he said they hate fulmer in fayetteville and i said lately i haven't been to fond of him either. he said he would swap me nutt for him and i said i thought tennessee deserved better than both. :devilsmoke:

 

[hatvol96]

Eh, that's a little tough on a school that won 13 conference titles and won one national championship and lost another in "the Big Shootout." By that rationale, UT wasn't nationally relevant between '51 and '98, but I'll let you pick your side on that argument. Also, what would you call a recently renovated 75,000 seat stadium in Fayetteville or an 85,000 seat stadium in Columbia (soon to be expanded to 95k?)

Any way, my point was that we are above the SCs and Arkansases of the world, but it is not because of some tremendous natural advantage such as facilities or recruiting base or tradition. My opinion is that at least some credit has to be given to the people running the show, as much as that might irk some on this board.

How many times was UT in the top 20 between 51-98? When was the last time Arkansas played in a major bowl? They're a cute little program. That's all. They're to the SEC what Michigan State is to the Big 10, noble also-rans. Newly renovated stadiums? That's sweet. What do their training facilities and academic centers look like? If you don't think one of the main reasons Tennessee holds an advantage over the South Carolinas and Arkansases of the world is our tradition of success, you're sadly mistaken.

 

[hatvol96]

yep that is in phoenix, i was sitting there waiting for my flight back to nashville with my tennessee hat on and this guy sat down and started talking to me. he was alot like me, happy with his basketball program, alittle disgusted wtih their football program. pretty good fellow none the less. he said they hate fulmer in fayetteville and i said lately i haven't been to fond of him either. he said he would swap me nutt for him and i said i thought tennessee deserved better than both. :devilsmoke:

Interesting that they're happy with Heath now. They were ready to run him out of town in mid-January.

 

[hatvol96]

Eh, that's a little tough on a school that won 13 conference titles and won one national championship and lost another in "the Big Shootout." By that rationale, UT wasn't nationally relevant between '51 and '98, but I'll let you pick your side on that argument. Also, what would you call a recently renovated 75,000 seat stadium in Fayetteville or an 85,000 seat stadium in Columbia (soon to be expanded to 95k?)

Any way, my point was that we are above the SCs and Arkansases of the world, but it is not because of some tremendous natural advantage such as facilities or recruiting base or tradition. My opinion is that at least some credit has to be given to the people running the show, as much as that might irk some on this board.

How many of those 13 are SEC championships? What have they done since the southern schools integrated? Next to nothing.

 

[cotton]

How many of those 13 are SEC championships? What have they done since the southern schools integrated? Next to nothing.

Again, you miss the point, on purpose I believe. You hate Fulmer. I understand that. I don't think I'm going to change your mind. The problem with your "argument" here is that you make my point for me. What is the difference, since Arkansas joined the SEC, in our program and theirs? Why have we been more successful than them? We are similar southern state intstitutions that put a lot of emphasis on football. What gives us the edge in the last 14 years since they joined our conference? :dunno:

 

[hatvol96]

Again, you miss the point, on purpose I believe. You hate Fulmer. I understand that. I don't think I'm going to change your mind. The problem with your "argument" here is that you make my point for me. What is the difference, since Arkansas joined the SEC, in our program and theirs? Why have we been more successful than them? We are similar southern state intstitutions that put a lot of emphasis on football. What gives us the edge in the last 14 years since they joined our conference? :dunno:

We've been better than Arkansas for a hell of a lot longer than 14 years. It's not like we suddenly overtook them with Fulmer's ascention. I think I've said Fulmer is a good coach who has outlived his usefulness at UT. A change of scenery might rejuvinate him.

 

[MachiaVolli]

That's a very Pollyanna view. It could be worse, so don't complain. It hasn't been one 8-4 season. That's the average for the last 4 years. If our program is on a level where Arkansas and South Carolina are considered peers, we should drop football and use the money on academic facilities.

"Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.? ~Proverbs 17 : 28

 

[hatvol96]

"Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.? ~Proverbs 17 : 28

Ooh, a scripture quote. I'm impressed.

 

[tmack50]

Don't get me to preachin' on this post. :nono: Fulmer will right ship so let's just try to enjoy the tournament and forget about bumping heads for the time being.

 

[smokedog#3]

i will enjoy the basketball tourney, i think we will do well and atleast get to the sweet 16. i'm not so sure fulmer will right the ship though. :devilsmoke:

 

[IBleedOrange]

i understand people expressing their opinions on here about what is wrong with the players/staff (whatever side your argument lies on) and the potential problems we may encounter during the season but i really can't understand why some people have to be so pessimisstic (sp?) ALL THE TIME, dont get me wrong constructive criticism is definetly more than understandable but at the same time there has to be some things that these people LIKE about our beloved football team and why they think we may actually do well this season

 

[rockydoc]

i understand people expressing their opinions on here about what is wrong with the players/staff (whatever side your argument lies on) and the potential problems we may encounter during the season but i really can't understand why some people have to be so pessimisstic (sp?) ALL THE TIME, dont get me wrong constructive criticism is definetly more than understandable but at the same time there has to be some things that these people LIKE about our beloved football team and why they think we may actually do well this season

Five and six seasons tend to make one pessismitic! :cry:

 

[IBleedOrange]

Five and six seasons tend to make one pessismitic! :cry:

very true, but surely nobody on here honestly thinks that we will put up that same kind of performance again this year do they??

 

[Vol423]

very true, but surely nobody on here honestly thinks that we will put up that same kind of performance again this year do they??

Do I think that we will go 5-6 again this year? No. Do I think that it's possible, though? Absolutely.

 

[WA_Vol]

Back to the original subject of the thread, if Fulmer thinks the reason UT went 5-6 last year, is the players not playing up the level expeced then he probably believes there isn't a need for any great changes on the coaches part.

Granted UT has 3 new coaches, but is the philosophy going to be different? In order to correct a problem you first have to identify what the problem is, and here lies the problem. If Fulmer believes the players not playing up to par is the problem then changes to coaching or offensive philosophy isnt going to solve the problem in his mind.

Anyone who believes Fulmer has a handle on the problem needs to go back and read Fulmers quotes after fall practice last year. He stated on several occasions to the effect, that he wished every position was in as good of hands as the QB position and the QB position was the one area he wasn't worried about. Obviously Fulmer has had problems in the past identifying the true nature of the team's problems and correcting them.

 

[jakez4ut]

Back to the original subject of the thread, if Fulmer thinks the reason UT went 5-6 last year, is the players not playing up the level expeced then he probably believes there isn't a need for any great changes on the coaches part.

Granted UT has 3 new coaches, but is the philosophy going to be different? In order to correct a problem you first have to identify what the problem is, and here lies the problem. If Fulmer believes the players not playing up to par is the problem then changes to coaching or offensive philosophy isnt going to solve the problem in his mind.

Anyone who believes Fulmer has a handle on the problem needs to go back and read Fulmers quotes after fall practice last year. He stated on several occasions to the effect, that he wished every position was in as good of hands as the QB position and the QB position was the one area he wasn't worried about. Obviously Fulmer has had problems in the past identifying the true nature of the team's problems and correcting them.

i see your point, but as far as him being in denial, i don't buy it. I think the results from last year, and specifically the mindset he and the players had going in to last season has been a huge wake up call. He basically said he was wrong about his assessment of where the team was skill wise. He has even said that he "probably screwed 'em both" referring to the qb's.

The philosophy may not change too much, but how that philosophy is executed may, if you believe what you read about Cutcliffe. for me, i hope so. I think the overall philosophy is sound. the execution of it has been very lacking. We all know you have to run the ball and play defense, which is the heart of what Phil wants his teams to do.

And as to your last point about last season's remarks from Fulmer, i think that's the basis for most of the "new" talk coming out this spring, which i'm sure will continue in to the summer and fall...after all, the mistakes we make are the best teachers right? Lord knows, enough of those were made last season, he should be an expert by now!!!

 

[volfan2024]

I am through with all coach talk. The time for action is now! :aggressive:

 

[bizzllama]

I am through with all coach talk. The time for action is now! :aggressive:

Fulmer better have a good season this year