Game Thread: (13/10) Lady Vols 66 - Vanderbilt 52

[alexvol]

Andrea Carter spoke quite a bit in the game wrap up about LV turnovers. She said LVs were going to be a 16-17 TO team. They could still improve on that but The goal would need to be to keep the defense and rebounding strong. She also differentiated between turnovers that led to an opponents quick score vs those where we could get back in defense. She had a name for those type of turnovers. One of the gurus can tell you that. I’ve forgotten the term she used.
She really looked like she’d like to put on the Orange again and play a little pg to clean those up. Love her. She is really developing a great career for herself. Very proud of her!

Well I would say to Andrea that defense was not the key to the win today ......If Vandy had just hit 35 % of their wide open three pointers today they would have won.Auburn hit their shots and beat us with all the turnovers we made ...same as Florida .

In the NCAA tourney if they have 19 turnovers ( like they did today ) and run into a team that gets hot from 3 point line ,they are likely to go out in the 1st round.

 

[Orange_Mamba]

What? She made some key drives to the hoop. Her main job is to facilitate and score just enough to keep defenses honest.

As I said she has be aggressive. You’re telling me Jordan is playing the same way she played before Rae came back fully? I definitely don’t think so. She was avg like 12 or 13 pts during that stretch.

 

[Rickster]

Andrea Carter spoke quite a bit in the game wrap up about LV turnovers. She said LVs were going to be a 16-17 TO team. They could still improve on that but The goal would need to be to keep the defense and rebounding strong. She also differentiated between turnovers that led to an opponents quick score vs those where we could get back in defense. She had a name for those type of turnovers. One of the gurus can tell you that. I’ve forgotten the term she used.
She really looked like she’d like to put on the Orange again and play a little pg to clean those up. Love her. She is really developing a great career for herself. Very proud of her!

Many seem to get hung up on turnovers but there are other things just as important as Andrea points out. I think they have reduced some of the bad ones which is a good thing but I expect they will not improve their passing out front. Why they would continue trying to pass to a standing still team mate when there is a defender all over her is beyond me but they do enough to offset.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Well today I have only one comment : the season is just about over and I thought by this time in the season there would be a vast improvement in turnovers .....but I was wrong .

I don't know why you would think that based on Kellie's track record...

 

[Rickster]

Well I would say to Andrea that defense was not the key to the win today ......If Vandy had just hit 35 % of their wide open three pointers today they would have won.Auburn hit their shots and beat us with all the turnovers we made ...same as Florida .

In the NCAA tourney if they have 19 turnovers ( like they did today ) and run into a team that gets hot from 3 point line ,they are likely to go out in the 1st round.

Maybe if everything else worked out exactly the same. It doesn’t work that way though. If Vandy had hit half their open shots, whose to say the Lady Vols wouldn’t have had 10 more steals or hit 10 more shots or had 5 more blocks….

 

[madtownvol]

Part of the problem is how they feed Tamari.

If the ball comes in low the smaller players simply collapse on her and take it before she can get it up.

You have to feed her high, and then she has to keep it high.

Another problem is getting her base set when she receives the ball. That can't always be done, but taking a dribble to realign just isn't possible most of the time so you have to have your move ready, and your feet set properly for it before you receive the ball.

It's tough when they get to shove you off balance as they did several times in this game without any calls being made. Once they called Key for a travel when Vandy shoved her while she had the ball. Not a thing in the world you can do about that other than turn the film into the league for them to ignore.

Walker and Miles are short enough that they have trouble judging how to lob the ball in, Horston does a better job of it. But they can all improve if it is made a priority.

One of the announcers had a good diagnosis in comparing Key to Green. As a wide body post, Green was very good at squaring up to the passer, creating space for an entry pass at chest level, and keeping defenders on her back. In contrast, Key wants to receive the ball up high, so she is always stretching her arms up and her body position is on an angle, where she is mostly turned toward basket but is looking back over her shoulder to the passer. With that body positioning, it is not to hard for an agile defender to jump the pass lane and the pass has to be perfect to work.

I am having been saying since she got here, that TK needs to improve her lower body strength so she can clear out space more like a classic post player. She does look stronger this season but more work is needed.

 

[madtownvol]

Andrea Carter spoke quite a bit in the game wrap up about LV turnovers. She said LVs were going to be a 16-17 TO team. They could still improve on that but The goal would need to be to keep the defense and rebounding strong. She also differentiated between turnovers that led to an opponents quick score vs those where we could get back in defense. She had a name for those type of turnovers. One of the gurus can tell you that. I’ve forgotten the term she used.
She really looked like she’d like to put on the Orange again and play a little pg to clean those up. Love her. She is really developing a great career for herself. Very proud of her!

Not a guru but "transition TOs" maybe? On a related note, Kellie has said she does not want the team playing tight worrying too much about TOs. So, she can live with Jordan maybe trying a pass that does not work out but losing the ball in half court due to a press which leads to a lay-up that is a different matter.

Vandy is a decent pressing team and after the 1st quarter, the LVs handled the pressure pretty well. Jordan Horston has gotten much better at breaking the press; the LVs went back to using Key or Dye as an outlet, and MIles did better today as well. So, I do see improvement on that dimension.

 

[alexvol]

Maybe if everything else worked out exactly the same. It doesn’t work that way though. If Vandy had hit half their open shots, whose to say the Lady Vols wouldn’t have had 10 more steals or hit 10 more shots or had 5 more blocks….

Yep .But my point still obtains .....this team should have made progress in how they handle pressure by this time of the year and they have not ...at least yet.....and it is likely to be their bane in the tourney if they do not handle it better than they did against Auburn,Fla,Vandy and several other teams this year .If they win in the face of high turnover rate against the likes of South Carolina,Stanford,Louisville ,then good on them and I will rejoice .

 

[alexvol]

Not a guru but "transition TOs" maybe? On a related note, Kellie has said she does not want the team playing tight worrying too much about TOs. So, she can live with Jordan maybe trying a pass that does not work out but losing the ball in half court due to a press which leads to a lay-up that is a different matter.

Vandy is a decent pressing team and after the 1st quarter, the LVs handled the pressure pretty well, Jordan Horston has gotten much better at breaking the press, the lVs went back to using Key or Dye as an outlet, and MIles did better today as well. So, I do see improvement on that dimension.

I will say that they handled the pressure much better in 2nd half.

 

[lvocd]

Shea Ralph on both her knees yelling looks like a buffoon. Who does that?

So funny how different reactions can be, 'cause I actually thought it was pretty cool that she was unconcerned that she might look funny doing that. Showed confidence and intensity.

My second thought was, "Ain't gonna help to try to sneak in a prayer now!"

 

[madtownvol]

Well I would say to Andrea that defense was not the key to the win today ......If Vandy had just hit 35 % of their wide open three pointers today they would have won.

Interesting, I had always thought the point of playing defense was to keep your opponent from shooting a high percentage. Since the LV defense apparently had no bearing on Vandy's shooting, did Shea Ralph tell her team not to shoot well or where the Vandy players placing bets on who could miss the most shots?

 

[alexvol]

Interesting, I had always thought the point of playing defense was to keep your opponent from shooting a high percentage. Since the LV defense apparently had no bearing on Vandy's shooting, did Shea Ralph tell her team not to shoot well or where the Vandy players placing bets on who could miss the most shots?

The answer to your question is that Vandy shot a terrible percentage despite being wide open on many occasion.If you watched the game you would agree with that comment .Otherwise you are just being a contrarian.

 

[Memvol44]

I don't know why you would think that based on Kellie's track record...

21-4 is a top ten record!!

 

[chuckiepoo]

I did not .But think where they would be with holding turnovers to under 10 per game

15 for that matter…

 

[lvocd]

21-4 is a top ten record!!

That damnable loss to Auburn haunts us!

 

[madtownvol]

Maybe if everything else worked out exactly the same. It doesn’t work that way though. If Vandy had hit half their open shots, whose to say the Lady Vols wouldn’t have had 10 more steals or hit 10 more shots or had 5 more blocks….

Just looking at the box score, 7 of the LVs 19 were attributed to Tamari. Most of those where situations where she got swarmed on the entry pass or could not quite gather the ball. Other posters have talked about the need for Tamari to be stronger in the post but sometimes the LVs need a plan B to forcing the ball inside to TK. There was another TO that involved Striplin where Steffi Sorenson rightly noted that even if Karo had been able to grab the pass, she was in a terrible position on the court. This problem should be solvable. If a team is packing the paint, LVs players have to be willing to take the open 3.

 

[madtownvol]

That damnable loss to Auburn haunts us!

If they can pull a win against LSU and an upset against SC, stain erased. [That will be a challenging clean up job]

 

[Rickster]

Yep .But my point still obtains .....this team should have made progress in how they handle pressure by this time of the year and they have not ...at least yet.....and it is likely to be their bane in the tourney if they do not handle it better than they did against Auburn,Fla,Vandy and several other teams this year .If they win in the face of high turnover rate against the likes of South Carolina,Stanford,Louisville ,then good on them and I will rejoice .

I thought they improved their ball advancement some today. They are still challenged passing the ball and at least part of that is because the person we are trying to pass to does not get decent separation. There is still time to correct but it is awfully late late in the season to have to be adjusting basic skills.

 

[mudcat1973]

sec trying to make nashiville unconn south.

 

[alexvol]

For everyone in this thread ,I am finished ventilating about turnovers .Everyone has an opinion on the subject .If the LV's win the National championship this year with a turn over rate in the tourney games of 15+ ,then we all can rejoice.

 

[mudcat1973]

If they can pull a win against LSU and an upset against SC, stain erased. [That will be a challenging clean up job]

right it tenn has no sec losses. tenn vs south caroline gets sec champship. one loss vs tenn no loss or loss or two still winer of that game next sunaday takes the crown. unless tenn or south caroline lose to some other sec team.

 

[madtownvol]

The answer to your question is that Vandy shot a terrible percentage despite being wide open on many occasion.If you watched the game you would agree with that comment .Otherwise you are just being a contrarian.

Tennessee had and missed just as many open looks. The LVs were 5-19 from beyond the arc whereas Vandy was 6-27. Percentage-wise that is 33% versus 22% but the actual difference is ONE shot (i.e., 4 for 19 would also be around 22%). On the whole, the LVs made life very hard for Vandy. Most of Vandy's shots, particularly in the 2nd half, were contested and the LVs forced several shot clock violations. Part of a defensive scheme is that, if your opponent is not a good 3 point shooting team, you essentially force them into those shots by taking away other options. And if they keep missing, you stay with the scheme. In truth, the same holds for Vandy's defensive scheme. They were also willing to give us open outside shots but wanted to make scoring in the paint difficult. We beat them on both defense and board domination (the formula for the entire season).

Seriously, who is being the contrarian? The LVs hold their opponent to 52 points and you say it is not about the defense....


Worth noting that if the LVs had shot a bit better, Jordan could have had a triple double.

 

[Darth_Vol]

21-4 is a top ten record!!

South Carolina isn't gonna care what their record is a week from now. If Tennessee continues to turn the ball over at this rate, and by all indications they are, it's going to get very ugly very fast...

 

[Volinnooga]

I know who Lobo is, but thanks for your unwanted remark. And both of their voices sound the same. Hint —— they make this thing with cotton on both ends of it with a stick in the middle. Use it.

Classy post

 

[lvocd]

If they can pull a win against LSU and an upset against SC, stain erased. [That will be a challenging clean up job]

Absolutely. But it may not even require winning both of those games to empty the bucket of vomit that Auburn loss is. If we beat one and play the other respectably, that might be enough to convince pollsters that The Aubacle shouldn't be lorded over the team anymore.