Game Thread: (13/10) Lady Vols 66 - Vanderbilt 52

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

Kim Mulkey used to sit on the floor and pound it with her hand, don’t know if she still does.

 

[Lucy]

Well I would say to Andrea that defense was not the key to the win today ......If Vandy had just hit 35 % of their wide open three pointers today they would have won.Auburn hit their shots and beat us with all the turnovers we made ...same as Florida .

In the NCAA tourney if they have 19 turnovers ( like they did today ) and run into a team that gets hot from 3 point line ,they are likely to go out in the 1st round.

I think that is why she emphasized defense and rebounding would be key with a relatively high number of TOs. Also, do you really think it would be a good idea to”say to Andrea” anything? Think she probably knows a lot more than anyone posting here.

 

[lvocd]

Madtown, as we all know, both LSU and SC have the guards who can cause lots of turnovers, and the speed to score a lot of points off of them. So to beat either of them would be the absolute best wins of the season for Tennessee. We stand a better chance of beating LSU at home, of course -- IF Key can stay on the floor. And maybe if Poynter can find it in her heart to finally have an average game. lol

The game at SC? It would feel like a win to me if we kept it within 12-14. I know that sounds bad, and I'm not even saying it's impossible we could beat them. But this year, in THEIR packed arena? That game was circled on my pre-season calendar as the most highly probable loss of the season, and that hasn't changed. I just want Tennessee to find a way to keep it respectable. Hell, even if they were to lose by 20 they could still look respectable doing it by not EVER hanging their heads and making fewer "bloopers reel"-quality turnovers. I'm talking about the really bad ones that are best viewed as the "Benny Hill" theme plays.

But OMG, if Tennessee could somehow win BOTH games? Pretty sure that would turn women's college basketball on its head. It doesn't hurt to dream!

 

[turbovol]

Respect to Key for her efforts, but everything about her game is too slow--movements, reaction, shots, all of it. When you get the ball in the paint, you need to be decisive and get rid of the ball quickly--either by shooting, making a quick, strong move and shooting, or passing the ball. If you are not decisive and act quickely, defenders will collapse on you and you may lose the ball. I'm not at all sure why we even play through the post as much as we do. Offensively,we'd be much better off playing small, but then we'd lose Key on defense. It's a dilemma.

 

[madtownvol]

Madtown, as we all know, both LSU and SC have the guards who can cause lots of turnovers, and the speed to score a lot of points off of them. So to beat either of them would be the absolute best wins of the season for Tennessee. We stand a better chance of beating LSU at home, of course -- IF Key can stay on the floor. And maybe if Poynter can find it in her heart to finally have an average game. lol

The game at SC? It would feel like a win to me if we kept it within 12-14. I know that sounds bad, and I'm not even saying it's impossible we could beat them. But this year, in THEIR packed arena? That game was circled on my pre-season calendar as the most highly probable loss of the season, and that hasn't changed. I just want Tennessee to find a way to keep it respectable. Hell, even if they were to lose by 20 they could still look respectable doing it by not EVER hanging their heads and making fewer "bloopers reel"-quality turnovers. I'm talking about the really bad ones that are best viewed as the "Benny Hill" theme plays.

But OMG, if Tennessee could somehow win BOTH games? Pretty sure that would turn women's college basketball on its head. It doesn't hurt to dream!

Agree, it is a lot easier to envision how the LVs lose to SC than how they can win. It is a pretty narrow window. I am not optimistic that Key can stay out of foul trouble guarding Boston (this game is one where Green's absence will really be felt). But, if the LVs could reverse the script and get some early fouls on Boston, then a glimmer of hope starts to shine. Beyond that, the LVs will need a really strong defensive effort maybe a notch above their Texas A&M and KY games. And most obvious but important, they have to have a good shooting night from the FT line and beyond the arc. I can't see any path to victory that doesn;t have the LVs scoring 8 to 10 threes. The LVs shot 10 for 20 on threes against KY (their best mark of the season). I think they will have to match that to be competitive with Sc. (And it would not hurt to cut down on the number of TOs)

 

[VolBalls33]

Love when the Vols and Lady Vols sweep the Dores.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Respect to Key for her efforts, but everything about her game is too slow--movements, reaction, shots, all of it. When you get the ball in the paint, you need to be decisive and get rid of the ball quickly--either by shooting, making a quick, strong move and shooting, or passing the ball. If you are not decisive and act quickely, defenders will collapse on you and you may lose the ball. I'm not at all sure why we even play through the post as much as we do. Offensively,we'd be much better off playing small, but then we'd lose Key on defense. It's a dilemma.

So is she gonna score in double figures again this season, or nah...?

 

[Volfan2012]

A win over Alabama next Thursday locks up a tie for fifth place with only Miss St needing to lose one more game for Tennessee to lock down a top four in the SEC no matter what happens in the other games this season. Being in the top four gives you a double bye in the league tourney. I think we need three more wins either tourney or rest of season to keep a spot in the top 16 and play the first two NCAA games at home. Still a lot to be decided hope we find a way to win them all.

 

[kell7517]

Respect to Key for her efforts, but everything about her game is too slow--movements, reaction, shots, all of it. When you get the ball in the paint, you need to be decisive and get rid of the ball quickly--either by shooting, making a quick, strong move and shooting, or passing the ball. If you are not decisive and act quickely, defenders will collapse on you and you may lose the ball. I'm not at all sure why we even play through the post as much as we do. Offensively,we'd be much better off playing small, but then we'd lose Key on defense. It's a dilemma.

I agree. If Key just had a little bit of attitude or an aggressive bone in her body, She would be a force. Don’t get me wrong she’s talented and the LV need her. But she plays soft a lot.

 

[Volfan2012]

Respect to Key for her efforts, but everything about her game is too slow--movements, reaction, shots, all of it. When you get the ball in the paint, you need to be decisive and get rid of the ball quickly--either by shooting, making a quick, strong move and shooting, or passing the ball. If you are not decisive and act quickely, defenders will collapse on you and you may lose the ball. I'm not at all sure why we even play through the post as much as we do. Offensively,we'd be much better off playing small, but then we'd lose Key on defense. It's a dilemma.

I agree her decision making has been slower for some reason in the last couple weeks than it was early in the season. Depends on who we play whether were better going small. Against Vandy that certainly looked to be true. Against other teams with a big center or inside game she has to play and usually plays better in those games than when we play the smaller teams.

 

[djohnnyg]

I had this team as dead and buried...so I guess that may have been premature... although I still don't think they are that good. Something happened before the Auburn game and continued to the tune of what should have been a 4 game losing streak....if not for Arky missing both free throws at the end...and Ramirez missing a 3. Nonetheless they've won a couple in a row... legitimately....so I will grant the possibility they have turned it around a bit. I still think losing Green has been a devastating occurance...and it's disappointing that we don't have the depth to overcome that...and that losing one player could affect this team that much....but go Lady Vols.

 

[TheMississippiVol]

Solid performance by the Lady Vols. They are returning back to form as a SEC and NCAA title contender. During the game, the announcers confidently stated this type of performance is why many WCB analysts have Tenn as a possible Final Four team.

That was the 2nd week in the row on TV that statement has been made and despite the naysayers nothing will keep this team from being in the conversation. They are must see TV. The only question mark is can Rae return to form? Today was a positive step forward.

Credible basketball fans know if she can take another step forward and gain some confidence over the next 4 games then look out…

 

[Rickster]

Highlights

 

[Hoosier]

The Lady Vols beating Vanderbilt is one of life's simple pleasures. The feeling is akin to the one that inspires one to mutter, "Well shat, old bowel, well shat."

 

[Memvol44]

Respect to Key for her efforts, but everything about her game is too slow--movements, reaction, shots, all of it. When you get the ball in the paint, you need to be decisive and get rid of the ball quickly--either by shooting, making a quick, strong move and shooting, or passing the ball. If you are not decisive and act quickely, defenders will collapse on you and you may lose the ball. I'm not at all sure why we even play through the post as much as we do. Offensively,we'd be much better off playing small, but then we'd lose Key on defense. It's a dilemma.

She always turns toward the double team!!!

 

[lvocd]

I agree her decision making has been slower for some reason in the last couple weeks than it was early in the season. Depends on who we play whether were better going small. Against Vandy that certainly looked to be true. Against other teams with a big center or inside game she has to play and usually plays better in those games than when we play the smaller teams.

If Key seems hesitant it's probably because she's taking an extra beat to consider whether what she's about to do is going to result in a foul or not. Until the team has time to create an effective and consistent alternative to Key, I'm afraid she's going to play tentatively, which can look like indecision on the floor. She's not indecisive, she's overly cautious.

Tennessee's post-season hopes will definitely rest on whether Key will go into games feeling confident that her teammates will be able to have her back if she picks up a couple of early fouls. If she's not confident there won't be a collapse if she goes out, then she's going to feel like half a player when she's in the game.

 

[lvocd]

She always turns toward the double team!!!

The scout on her is definitely solid on that. She needs to develop a fake and take the turn in the other direction instead of having that move pre-set in her mind before receiving the ball.

 

[Real Info]

Coach can not call the timeout during live play. Has to be the player. Now she does need to continue to let her guards know in that moment in 4th quarter with timeouts to use use it. In CHRIST Alone

She can’t tell her other guard standing right there to call timeout?

 

[Aladywhovolunteer]

Well I would say to Andrea that defense was not the key to the win today ......If Vandy had just hit 35 % of their wide open three pointers today they would have won.Auburn hit their shots and beat us with all the turnovers we made ...same as Florida .

In the NCAA tourney if they have 19 turnovers ( like they did today ) and run into a team that gets hot from 3 point line ,they are likely to go out in the 1st round.

I don't disagree with you about turnovers. It's an area that needs to be better.

Two points I would make. Defense probably did win the game. We held Vanderbilt scoreless for six minutes in the second quarter. Then gave up 13 points in the last 4 minutes, while Key and Dye were on the bench with foul trouble.

Again in the third quarter we held Vanderbilt scoreless for over five minutes and went on a 10 -0 run. Vanderbilt made a run to cut the lead to 9 at the end of the quarter. When you hold a team scoreless for one third of the game, that's significant. Also basketball is a game of runs and momentum. Even the best team on the planet... will give up runs.

We didn't play very good defense at Auburn, Florida or UConn. Completely agree and turnovers were a big part of thoes losses.
However, Coach Harper indicating she could accept 16 turnovers a game does not mean she is happy about that number. It means she is a realist, while some of our fan base appear not to be.

Kellie's realism comes from her assessment of her team...you know the things you can't change and must learn to live with. Like,
Waker is not a point guard, she is a 2 guard. A lot of her turnovers are caused from trying to do to much with the ball and a lose handle. Anytime she tries to crossover in traffic, it will not end well. Her leg brace also causes her to have limited mobility which is another problem. Getting a better handle takes years of hard work.

Miles is probably a PG, but she is realitively short and has limited length. She is going to get turnovered in any trap situation. She also has limited arm strength and struggles to hang on to the ball in traffic. The good news is. she is a freshman and will get better. Again ball handling takes years of work to get better.

Burrell can not handle the ball in traffic. This skill set takes years to perfect...we've got days. Actually, think Rae should come back next year and work on her handle. She is 6 feet 1 and does not dribble low enought to the floor. Horston at 6 feet 2 should be her mentor. I know from my own college experience 4 years is a grind and most people just want to move on. So don't expect Rae back.

Horston is our best ball handler but she is not a point guard. Her value is in using her size and athletic ability to find mismatches and score usually in the front court.

Sixteen turnovers is Kellie admitting, Walker is not necessarily a pg, Miles is not big enough or strong enought... currently, and Burrell must have freedom of movement ( which means accepting turnovers) to be effective.
If you turn the ball over for Coach Barnes, you take a seat. He has depth. Kellie does not have experienced quality depth. Tennessee LVs would have more losses than four, if she implemented Coach Barnes policy.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Part of the problem is how they feed Tamari.

If the ball comes in low the smaller players simply collapse on her and take it before she can get it up.

You have to feed her high, and then she has to keep it high.

Another problem is getting her base set when she receives the ball. That can't always be done, but taking a dribble to realign just isn't possible most of the time so you have to have your move ready, and your feet set properly for it before you receive the ball.

It's tough when they get to shove you off balance as they did several times in this game without any calls being made. Once they called Key for a travel when Vandy shoved her while she had the ball. Not a thing in the world you can do about that other than turn the film into the league for them to ignore.

Walker and Miles are short enough that they have trouble judging how to lob the ball in, Horston does a better job of it. But they can all improve if it is made a priority.

And Key could do a better job of coming to get the ball, too.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

What? She made some key drives to the hoop. Her main job is to facilitate and score just enough to keep defenses honest.

There are times in the game when MIles is the one and Walker is the two. It seems to me that Walker is more aggressive on offense when she's at the two.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

I don't know why you would think that based on Kellie's track record...

Kellie has a "track record" on turnovers? Please explain.

 

[LV renaissance]

The answer to your question is that Vandy shot a terrible percentage despite being wide open on many occasion.If you watched the game you would agree with that comment .Otherwise you are just being a contrarian.

I thought our defense except the first and last 5 minutes of the game was very good other than a few successful screens. It is good defense to leave poor shooters open for 3s and choking off the other options. Good teams have been doing this to us as well, forcing 3s from poor long range shooters while making it hard to get shots in the paint.

 

[alexvol]

And Key could do a better job of coming to get the ball, too.

Correct .Most of the passes into Key are telegraphed way in advance.They need to have crisp reverse passes and if that does not open a passing lane then drive the ball and lob it to her when doubled teamed.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Just looking at the box score, 7 of the LVs 19 were attributed to Tamari. Most of those where situations where she got swarmed on the entry pass or could not quite gather the ball. Other posters have talked about the need for Tamari to be stronger in the post but sometimes the LVs need a plan B to forcing the ball inside to TK. There was another TO that involved Striplin where Steffi Sorenson rightly noted that even if Karo had been able to grab the pass, she was in a terrible position on the court. This problem should be solvable. If a team is packing the paint, LVs players have to be willing to take the open 3.

Probelem is they often can't get an open three beacuse they aren't moving the ball side to side quickly enough to get someone open. Their perimeter passing is tentative and sloppy at times. So then they have no open threes and no entry pass and the clock winding down and.............