Game thread: #15 Lady Vols host Ole Miss, Sun., Feb 16, Noon ET. SECN

[djohnnyg]

We beat UCONN. Season is a success with that alone.

 

[AllVols3]

Just setting here watching Texas and LSU game and comparing the officiating in their game vs ours. Their game looks like a men's game with the fiscal play they are getting away with. I think it is because there's 2 veteran coaches on the side lines and the refs know they are going to here it from them if they start calling ticky tack fouls. Most on here disagree with coach jumper about working the refs but until CKC calls out some of the fouls that are being called us and earns some respect from the refs they will keep making calls like they are making. It shows her talking to the refs during the game but at some point she is going to have to show a mean side of herself to let the refs know she has had enough.

She stayed on the refs today. The refs were just terrible.

 

[djohnnyg]

And South Carolina getting hammered is very sweet. Eat that Staley.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Whoa...87-58 is the final, UConn was unstoppable today!



After today.

Samara Spencer has 1631 total points, 505 total rebounds, 494 total assists for her career as well as 153 total steals


Also Cooper is on pace for a pretty special season this year. 424 points, 148 rebounds, 85 assists and 80 steals... Not sure when the last time a player went for 500 points, 150 rebounds and 100 assists/steals in the same season.

.... and it was in Columbia too. UConn was dominant on the boards. They had a 48-29 advantage in rebounds. What the heck happened to SC? Were they missing anybody? Crazy.

As others have said, nice win today. It wasn't picturesque .... but who cares?

 

[BowlBrother85]

And South Carolina getting hammered is very sweet. Eat that Staley.

That blows my mind. Holy cow.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

She stayed on the refs today. The refs were just terrible.

Facts. CKC certainly did her job to call out the officials.
The crowd was strong too and booed them consistently!

The refs saw this coming and completely interfered with the outcome intentionally!

 

[Orange.]

Cora Hall's game story is solid and includes some great photos.

 

[djohnnyg]

Seems this Lady Vol squad could lose to Austin Peay then come back and beat UCLA. They're like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get. Although we could of easily won those close games we lost. Caldwell is for real imo.

 

[djohnnyg]

That close game between OU and Mizzou got out of hand quick.

 

[djohnnyg]

These refs in this UNC game are terrible too. Calling ticky tack fouls with 5 secs left? Come on. Call all their timeouts dragging the game out is disconcerting. James blew it.

 

[djohnnyg]

I'm rooting for Texas to beat LSU. Don't like Mulkey. Too cocky. Seems I'm the only one still posting so I'll shut up. Sorry.

 

[KTrain]

And South Carolina getting hammered is very sweet. Eat that Staley.

Lost 2 out of last 3.

 

[Hbg]

Why even speculate?
This is really silly to even focus on at this point in the season.
I don’t get the point in thinking negative about a team, player, or coach every single game.
It won’t make or break anything either way.

First, it’s a social platform, it’s what we do
Second, it’s the truth

 

[37620VOL]

First, which is more impressive, 10 rebounds for Spencer or 6 steals for Cooper?

Second file this under stats that mask 0 sense. Puckett did zilch in her stat line except pick up 3 fouls in 9 minutes. Yet she was +7 in those 9 minutes. I thought Spencer played a good game, she filed the stat sheet over 32 minutes including recording a double-double. Somehow she was -8... which means in the 8 minutes she was on the bench, we beat the Rebels by 17 points. Make it make sense!

 

[CannonVol80]

Just setting here watching Texas and LSU game and comparing the officiating in their game vs ours. Their game looks like a men's game with the fiscal play they are getting away with. I think it is because there's 2 veteran coaches on the side lines and the refs know they are going to here it from them if they start calling ticky tack fouls. Most on here disagree with coach jumper about working the refs but until CKC calls out some of the fouls that are being called us and earns some respect from the refs they will keep making calls like they are making. It shows her talking to the refs during the game but at some point she is going to have to show a mean side of herself to let the refs know she has had enough.

I'm not sure that "most on here" disagree about working the refs. I can't speak to what most think about Coach Jumper's tirades on Coach Caldwell "working the refs", but my personal feeling is that he is overly critical and fails to recognize and give credit on occasions when Coach Caldwell clearly addresses issues with the refs during games. To me it seems that he feels that his is the only way to accomplish the proper "working of a ref", perhaps because he is an "alpha coach", and that he won't be satisfied until Coach Caldwell gets a technical or perhaps gets ejected from a game. Just my not so humble opinion.

Jim

 

[Orange.]

First, which is more impressive, 10 rebounds for Spencer or 6 steals for Cooper?

Yes. I'll take both.

Second file this under stats that mask 0 sense. Puckett did zilch in her stat line except pick up 3 fouls in 9 minutes. Yet she was +7 in those 9 minutes.

Without rewatching, it may (or may not) be that she guarantees one less player collapsing on drives to the bucket because they respect her shooting 3s and are coached that way. But see below.

I thought Spencer played a good game, she filed the stat sheet over 32 minutes including recording a double-double. Somehow she was -8... which means in the 8 minutes she was on the bench, we beat the Rebels by 17 points. Make it make sense!

Obviously that stat doesn't tell the whole story. People are prone to misuse it as a easy, comprehensive, and "irrefutable" way to evaluate players. People aren't numbers. Numbers are helpful, but aren't omnicompetent. I'll take CKC evaluating the film.

Interesting post. What do you think?

 

[djohnnyg]

Kellie Harper loses that uconn game imo. She could never win the big ones. Although we ALMOST beat Gamecocks in sec tourney last year and should have.

 

[RespectAPA]

First, which is more impressive, 10 rebounds for Spencer or 6 steals for Cooper?

Second file this under stats that mask 0 sense. Puckett did zilch in her stat line except pick up 3 fouls in 9 minutes. Yet she was +7 in those 9 minutes. I thought Spencer played a good game, she filed the stat sheet over 32 minutes including recording a double-double. Somehow she was -8... which means in the 8 minutes she was on the bench, we beat the Rebels by 17 points. Make it make sense!

File that under tiny sample size and the fact that the team was playing very well until the 4th QTR, wherein she only played 1 minute. [I do think there's something to be said for going away from your roster management strategy late in the game, when both sides are maximally tired, is a tactical error...]

Everyone should know that plusminus as an individual stat takes some time to zero-in on actual value, but once you do get enough of a sample size, then you just simply are what your in-game plusminus is; doesn't matter how good you ar in practice if the team falls behind while you're on the court with a substantial sample size.

The only flaw with plusminus is that it doesn't calibrate for how many offensiv and defensiv possessions you played — a +2 performance under 40 offensiv possessions and 38 defensiv possessions isn't the same as +2 on 38 offensiv and 40 defensiv; the latter is 4 points more impressiv than the former. [1 point per possession is scored by the offense by default on average, by not adjusting for that, naked +/- slightly overvalues offense and slightly undervalues defense, which evens out if you play the same number of each, but skews if you don't play the same number of possessions on each side of the ball]

 

[volsagain]

First, which is more impressive, 10 rebounds for Spencer or 6 steals for Cooper?

Second file this under stats that mask 0 sense. Puckett did zilch in her stat line except pick up 3 fouls in 9 minutes. Yet she was +7 in those 9 minutes. I thought Spencer played a good game, she filed the stat sheet over 32 minutes including recording a double-double. Somehow she was -8... which means in the 8 minutes she was on the bench, we beat the Rebels by 17 points. Make it make sense!

This doesn't make sense... +- is a joke .

 

[SGMVols]

If LSU wins they may have a case for a 1 seed after that SC loss.

 

[Lucy]

First, which is more impressive, 10 rebounds for Spencer or 6 steals for Cooper?

Second file this under stats that mask 0 sense. Puckett did zilch in her stat line except pick up 3 fouls in 9 minutes. Yet she was +7 in those 9 minutes. I thought Spencer played a good game, she filed the stat sheet over 32 minutes including recording a double-double. Somehow she was -8... which means in the 8 minutes she was on the bench, we beat the Rebels by 17 points. Make it make sense!

It won’t make sense. It is a worthless statistic.

 

[RespectAPA]

This doesn't make sense... +- is a joke .

Same sample size, first 9 minutes, Tulsa was +0 [20-20] against Tennessee in their 61-102 loss. Does the 'inaccuracy' of those 9 minutes prove that game score is a joke, or does it caution against using game score to evaluate a team on tiny sample sizes of basketball play? correct answer is: the latter

Ultimately, +7 is probably a fluke. But if the Lady Vols continued to play at a +7/9min rate while she was on the court, on a much larger sample size, it would be necessary (if we're trying to outscore the other team) to acknowledge that there ar things the player is contributing to the court which traditional stats don't pick up on, which are only really picked up by stats like plusminus that are capable of evaluating everything about a player that makes their team better (by counting the only thing that actually matters in the game: the game score) at the cost of taking a notable sample to pin down +/min rate to a tight distribution.

But when you say that the only thing that matters, game score, is "a joke", you've decided to be prejudiced against it even when we get a large sample size in, and a player that you think is good is consistently low +/min, or a player you think is bad is consistently medium-high +/min. Basketball is 5-on-5, and unless a player is just completely worthless, every player affects how the opposing 5 defends, or plays offense. And that just cannot easily be put to a number all the time — notice how, even though defense is equally as important as offense is, that our traditional stats skew heavily toward offense. Plusminus almost values both sides of the ball equally, in contrast. (see previous post for the exception)

 

[Hbg]

Coop needs to leak in transition more, she is so dangerous when she has a half step to start with. That’s all she needs.

Leak? You mean not rebound?

 

[LV renaissance]

No excuse for some of the brain dead calls we saw today. Even the reviews took too long trying to convince themselves they had it right. Black Lady ref really tried to make it hard on the Lady VOLS

What is going on? We had a really important win, and I see comments about Ole Miss players all being thugs, making fun of their lack of diversity, but this steals the cake about race baiting. It was the black lady ref who challenged the white male ref to get a review on two occasions to the benefit of the Lady Vols. There are plenty of sites for this kind of talk, but there is no place for it here.

 

[lvocd]

First, which is more impressive, 10 rebounds for Spencer or 6 steals for Cooper?

Second file this under stats that mask 0 sense. Puckett did zilch in her stat line except pick up 3 fouls in 9 minutes. Yet she was +7 in those 9 minutes. I thought Spencer played a good game, she filed the stat sheet over 32 minutes including recording a double-double. Somehow she was -8... which means in the 8 minutes she was on the bench, we beat the Rebels by 17 points. Make it make sense!

I have never understood all that. Many have tried, but it STILL makes no sense to me.