Game Thread: #19/21 Lady Vols vs. #22/20 Oklahoma, Sat 1:32PM, WSN network

[Texas]

I agree with the spirit of your post but the idea that the medical staff would clear TK to play with a structurally damaged heart is irresponsible speculation.

Its pretty clear that her condition was identified (fortunately) before the worst complications kicked in.

On the flipside, those condemning her for not doing CrossFit, etc. and being in tip top shape are equally irresponsible since no one knows her exact medical status and limitations.

She could be on blood thinners and dealing with some side effects of those. It could be lot of different things. She is coming along. The goal may be for her to be play a bigger role by conference games. We are still in November. Just like the overreactions the Indiana game (sans Rickea), folks need a little patience and just see how things unfold over the next 2 months.

We speculate a lot on this board. Suggesting that there is damage limiting her progress seems like a viable explanation. Speaking of processes that could happen did not speak to the extent of her injuries. If medically cleared, and allowed to return speaks to the potential for regaining her prior status. Guess I could’ve indicated that. I’m not an expert, I stated that, but I have had to take a lot of healthcare course and cardiopulmonary rehabilitation so speaking to the bits that I remember seems fair and from my implementation into practice for years seems reasonable. I was trying to add perspective as to why she her tolerance is low. I would like to know what about my assertion qualifies as irresponsible speculation on this message board.

I will say again that I’m not an expert, but I do doubt she would be allowed to return on blood thinners.

 

[madtownvol]

I am not certain it’s black or white like that. For one thing, Cardiac rehab has been shown to be beneficial for most cardiac patients. Also, lung tissue has been shown to have a capacity to regenerate. It was caught early comparatively to many as she was still fairly capable. What I suggest is that there is more than ordinary deconditioning, there could be damage. The current model for treatment is to not sit on one’s arse for the rest of their life.

To address medical clearance or being released 100% or whatever terminology was used, being cleared medically, usually means a patient is stable and the risk of recurrence is negligible. A patient exercising her way back to her new peak ability would likely be encouraged by the healthcare team.

Regarding malpractice, it seems it would be malpractice to tell a patient to not exercise.

On a final note, I stand by the assertion that posts deriding TK or criticizing her progress are rude. Even if one is an expert in the cardiopulmonary care, then they would know the gravity of a PE and should refrain from disparaging players.

It is becoming clearer that you're making it up as you go. The standard for an NCAA medical clearance is that it is "safe and appropriate" for an athlete to return to play. If you check the NCAA standards, you will see that cardiac issues are a major point of emphasis for the NCAA (who don't like athletes dropping dead on the court).

You are confusing a general treatment protocol with the NCAA medical standards and then assuming that Tennessee's medical staff is letting TK play with a structurally damaged heart.

That is not happening at all. The lawsuit liability for such incompetence would be astronomical. It is fine to defend TK from her detractors (and she has had many over the years) but to keep insisting, via unsubstantiated speculation, that she has suffered and is playing with cardiac damage is again irresponsible.

Please quit doubling down on this narrative.

 

[madtownvol]

We speculate a lot on this board. Suggesting that there is damage limiting her progress seems like a viable explanation. Speaking of processes that could happen did not speak to the extent of her injuries. If medically cleared, and allowed to return speaks to the potential for regaining her prior status. Guess I could’ve indicated that. I’m not an expert, I stated that, but I have had to take a lot of healthcare course and cardiopulmonary rehabilitation so speaking to the bits that I remember seems fair and from my implementation into practice for years seems reasonable. I was trying to add perspective as to why she her tolerance is low. I would like to know what about my assertion qualifies as irresponsible speculation on this message board.

I will say again that I’m not an expert, but I do doubt she would be allowed to return on blood thinners.

On the blood thinners, you are probably right. Athletes are discouraged from playing contact sports while on those meds. So, I was wrong there.

 

[djtee]

Yes. Our best lineup is Wells, Powell, Spear, Jackson/Puckett, Hollingshed.

Striplin and Hollingshed are both serviceable at the 5. Karo got a lot of experience last season and it shows. Jill has the athleticism and potential but Karo has the meat and potatoes to her game.

It's hard to believe Hollingshed has only 4 block shots so far that is unacceptable. For a player with her skill set athleticism height and long wingspan she should have way more blockshots. Note the team only has 16,

 

[Volfan2012]

I am not certain it’s black or white like that. For one thing, Cardiac rehab has been shown to be beneficial for most cardiac patients. Also, lung tissue has been shown to have a capacity to regenerate. It was caught early comparatively to many as she was still fairly capable. What I suggest is that there is more than ordinary deconditioning, there could be damage. The current model for treatment is to not sit on one’s arse for the rest of their life.

To address medical clearance or being released 100% or whatever terminology was used, being cleared medically, usually means a patient is stable and the risk of recurrence is negligible. A patient exercising her way back to her new peak ability would likely be encouraged by the healthcare team.

Regarding malpractice, it seems it would be malpractice to tell a patient to not exercise.

On a final note, I stand by the assertion that posts deriding TK or criticizing her progress are rude. Even if one is an expert in the cardiopulmonary care, then they would know the gravity of a PE and should refrain from disparaging players.

I got my answer it was right there given by the Coach a few weeks ago and I just missed it. She has no restrictions, but she alone decides her pace of recovery. She is in charge of her own exercise program whatever she wants to do is totally up to her. I can understand why she would take it slow because of the mental part of it. I just hope she recovers completely back to the players she was. Finally I was not criticizing her was curious to where she might be trying to get this season. I'm sure she has a plan that will work for her and look forward to her being back to where she was over a season ago even if it doesn't happen this year.

 

[mike099]

Does Jon coach the bigs for Tennessee? Seems like a player like Hollingshead should be scoring more for the minutes she plays.

 

[glv98]

I got my answer it was right there given by the Coach a few weeks ago and I just missed it. She has no restrictions, but she alone decides her pace of recovery. She is in charge of her own exercise program whatever she wants to do is totally up to her. I can understand why she would take it slow because of the mental part of it. I just hope she recovers completely back to the players she was. Finally I was not criticizing her was curious to where she might be trying to get this season. I'm sure she has a plan that will work for her and look forward to her being back to where she was over a season ago even if it doesn't happen this year.

Exactly what I've heard KJH say several times. TK is completely cleared and pursues her own pace of recovery and participation. That was apparent in the practice we watched. There are some half wits on twitter crying for TK to start, and hinting that the coaches are holding her back. Not the case. Bless TK, hope she gets to the level she desires.

Does Jon coach the bigs for Tennessee? Seems like a player like Hollingshead should be scoring more for the minutes she plays.

And Joy. We have to unlock the mystery of Jill. Obviously needs to be more aggressive and to have surer, stronger hands. We really need her right now.

 

[Volfan2012]

2023-24 Women's Basketball Cumulative Statistics - University of Tennessee Athletics

The official 2023-24 Women's Basketball cumulative statistics for the University of Tennessee Volunteers

utsports.com

Here is the stats and we need just two or three more players to step up to another level and we'll be a team to compete with almost any other. Puckett is playing well her best season 15 and 6.5 boards is all you could ask from her. Powell has done the job this season has really improved over last. Just wish she would pass a little more on some of those drives. Players that need to step it up are Tess Darby not doing what she did last season. She was deadly from the three hope she can get that going again. Jill has rebounded well needs to score a lot more was really depending on her for strong post play hasn't been as effective as expected. Destinee has started to show flashes of old Belmont self just needs more consistency. I really like her and Powell on the floor at the same time.

 

[VolFuture]

2023-24 Women's Basketball Cumulative Statistics - University of Tennessee Athletics

The official 2023-24 Women's Basketball cumulative statistics for the University of Tennessee Volunteers

utsports.com

Here is the stats and we need just two or three more players to step up to another level and we'll be a team to compete with almost any other. Puckett is playing well her best season 15 and 6.5 boards is all you could ask from her. Powell has done the job this season has really improved over last. Just wish she would pass a little more on some of those drives. Players that need to step it up are Tess Darby not doing what she did last season. She was deadly from the three hope she can get that going again. Jill has rebounded well needs to score a lot more was really depending on her for strong post play hasn't been as effective as expected. Destinee has started to show flashes of old Belmont self just needs more consistency. I really like her and Powell on the floor at the same time.

They def need to step up if they’re gonna be playing 25+ or 30+ mins

 

[Texas]

It is becoming clearer that you're making it up as you go. The standard for an NCAA medical clearance is that it is "safe and appropriate" for an athlete to return to play. If you check the NCAA standards, you will see that cardiac issues are a major point of emphasis for the NCAA (who don't like athletes dropping dead on the court).

You are confusing a general treatment protocol with the NCAA medical standards and then assuming that Tennessee's medical staff is letting TK play with a structurally damaged heart.

That is not happening at all. The lawsuit liability for such incompetence would be astronomical. It is fine to defend TK from her detractors (and she has had many over the years) but to keep insisting, via unsubstantiated speculation, that she has suffered and is playing with cardiac damage is again irresponsible.

Please quit doubling down on this narrative.

Our bodies heal. Cardiac muscle can be replaced with scar tissue. Her heart may be healed to be “safe and appropriate” a term of art with likely no judicial meaning that implies safe, not likely to be further damaged and appropriate meaning carries on the function necessary.

A safe heart, I also said lung tissue, which could be an issue as well, is one that allows her to live and function. Her clots have been cleared. Hopefully the offending issue likely veins of the lower extremity identified and tended too. Her heart might not have the same contractility as before, or her lung tissue in the clot area does not perfuse as well as before. This does not mean she is not safe to jog, run or play ball. Also, does not mean with effort and expert guidance she won’t be as good or better than before. I intended to suggest it’s a journey. We don’t know the extent of the damage

I appreciate your posts MadTown, but it seems you’re digging in like some of the posters and twisting words to the extreme to get the point you want. The suggestion that I am making up cardiopulmonary A&P and cardiopulmonary rehab as I go I find insulting, and would ask that you refrain. I have been a physical therapist for over 20 years. Although I now strictly see outpatient orthopedic patients, I have seen Cardiac patients from the ICU to supervised outpatient clinic rehab.

As a side, I am also an attorney, so googling the NCAA standard and using it to tell me I am wrong is also not appreciated. I appreciate your insights and think you are quite intelligent and political leanings between us are similar I think. I feel the NCAA is corrupt and would twist their own language however they like. I also think you’d agree that our judicial interpretation of phrases is far from exact. We have constitutional amendments and phrases that have no meaning. We also have phrases that change meaning at the whim of the court. So safe and appropriate here has nothing that I find illustrative of an actual standard.

As I said, I respect you and your insights. I will defer to a final word from you if you like, and then I will apply restraint and the need to get the rest of my Xmas sh!t up to not respond further. Peace.

 

[Volfan2012]

They def need to step up if they’re gonna be playing 25+ or 30+ mins

If Tess make three or four of those three attempts in the Indiana game we may not win it but it would've been close. Her 0 for 7 from the three really hurt in that game and Jill had a tough game as well.

 

[VolFuture]

If Tess make three of four of those threes attempts in the Indiana game we may not win it but it would've been close. Her 0 for 7 from the three really hurt in that game and Jill had a tough game as well.

for sure… I’ll say Karo has been so effective in her limited minutes. What did she have 8 points 4 rebs in 9 mins against OU

 

[VolFuture]

If Tess make three or four of those three attempts in the Indiana game we may not win it but it would've been close. Her 0 for 7 from the three really hurt in that game and Jill had a tough game as well.

My only HUGE negative on our posts that I don’t see anyone talking about is their turnovers. Those girls do not value the ball and cannot pass. I don’t understand why we give them so much responsibility.

I swear every game I look and they both have 4. Again. Karo had 4 in 9 mins against OU. So bad even tho she really was effective…

 

[Volfan2012]

for sure… I’ll say Karo has been so effective in her limited minutes. What did she have 8 points 4 rebs in 9 mins against OU

Yes only complaint I have on her is her free throw shooting. She was over 80 percent in high school only 4 of 10 thus far this season. Still hurts me to think about Florida State and seven misses at the free throw line for the team. You have to make the free ones.

 

[VolFuture]

Yes only complaint I have on her is her free throw shooting. She was over 80 percent in high school only 4 of 10 thus far this season. Still hurts me to think about Florida State and seven misses at the free throw line for the team. You have to make the free ones.

I don’t get our free throw problems at all

 

[Volfan2012]

My only HUGE negative on our posts that I don’t see anyone talking about is their turnovers. Those girls do not value the ball and cannot pass. I don’t understand why we give them so much responsibility.

I swear every game I look and they both have 4. Again. Karo had 4 in 9 mins against OU. So bad even tho she really was effective…

Our point guards have 26 between them mostly on bad decisions. Yes the post is the next bad and we have more turnovers as a team than assists that is not good.

 

[Lucy]

I know everyone that loves women's basketball and cares deeply about the kids that play it have read this article. But I wanted to post it for those that may have missed it.

Lady Vol Jillian Hollingshead: 'This is the place for me'

Raised by aunt after mother's death, 6-5 post completes Tennessee's 2022-23 roster.

247sports.com

Jillian Hollingshed is such a beautiful person, whom I love to watch play. She didn't play great today but I know she has next level skills. I think her scoped knee keeps her from being as mobil as she would like. Hope Coach Harper will suggest Yoga for Jillian. It's worked wonders for JJJ on the men's team.
For those who think Coach Harper can't recruit...read the article.
Tennessee is not for everyone. Glad Hollingshead found her home here.

God bless Jeannette and Jacqueline for what they have given us in Jillian. I will hold this child close in my heart.
Thank you Kellie for a team of wonderful young women! Although per CKJH they can be too”nice” sometimes!

 

[Volfan2012]

I don’t get our free throw problems at all

Well at least in the Oklahoma game they hit 75 percent which is what you need every game. The blg blowup was Florida State cost us that game.

 

[VolFuture]

Well at least in the Oklahoma game they hit 75 percent which is what you need every game. The blg blowup was Florida State cost us that game.

2 free throws from being a 1 loss team is frustrating :/ but I truly believe we are top 5 potential with Rickea and top 15 without. But def are on the up and up

 

[Volfan2012]

2 free throws from being a 1 loss team is frustrating :/ but I truly believe we are top 5 potential with Rickea and top 15 without. But def are on the up and up

Yes we get all players well I like our chances in the SEC top three for sure.

 

[VolFuture]

Yes we get all players well I like our chances in the SEC top three for sure.

I took the OU game as we can beat Ole Miss without Rickea so scary hours are ahead for the other sec teams imo

 

[Volfan2012]

I took the OU game as we can beat Ole Miss without Rickea so scary hours are ahead for the other sec teams imo

Ole Miss can play defense, but they shoot really bad a lot of games. Just hope you catch them on a bad shooting game. We have to play there and since we've beat them a few times in a row sure they have it marked on the calendar. We need everybody for that game and hope Tamari will be further along as well.

 

[VolFuture]

Ole Miss can play defense, but they shoot really bad a lot of games. Just hope you catch them on a bad shooting game. We have to play there and since we've beat them a few times in a row sure they have it marked on the calendar. We need everybody for that game and hope Tamari will be further along as well.

Yeah I expect an ugly game tbh it feels like it always is with them. But if they truly are top 4 I feel good about top 3 with a chance to challenge top 2.

 

[Lucy]

Comparing Wells and Powell this season so far:
- Points: 6.0 vs. 12.4
- FG%: 34.2% vs. 46.3%
- 3pt.%: 9.1% vs. 38.5%
- FT%: 75.0% vs. 76.0%
- Assists: 3.7 vs. 1.6
- Turnovers: 2.0 vs. 2.8
- A/TO ratio: 1.20 vs. 0.57
- Assist %: 25.6% vs. 9.8%
- Free throw rate: 15.6% vs. 30.0%
- Steals: 0.5 vs. 1.0
- Steal %: 1.0% vs. 1.5%
- PER: 12.2 vs. 19.7
- Win shares: 0.1 vs. 0.3

Powell has clearly been the better scorer and is shooting SO much better than last season. Her defensive numbers are a little better but neither player really stands out. Wells hasn't really found her shot yet (to put it nicely) but her ability to create for others is clearly way ahead of Powell's right now. At this point, I think I'd agree that Wells should be the starting point guard if for no other reason than that A/TO ratio comparison. I feel more comfortable with Wells initiating the offense than starting off the game with Powell's TO rate. And I agree with others who noted Powell can be a great scoring spark off the bench.

Notre Dame will have a similar debate if/when Miles is healthy this season. Do you start the elite creator (Miles) or the player who can really score and disrupt things defensively, but has a high turnover rate (Hidalgo)?

I think it's great to have two point guards who bring something different.

We need a pest on Hidalgo!

 

[VolFuture]

We need a pest on Hidalgo!

Hildago isn’t going to beat us. We just need to be solid on scout. We matchup so well. Bring the energy and out compete.