Game Thread: #20 Lady Vols v #16 Ohio State: Sunday Dec 3 @ 5PM; Home, ESPN

[glv98]

What game did you watch South Carolina vs Duke? Both those teams play hard. We were getting beat back after we scored. That's pure and simple LACK OF EFFORT!! It was Embarrassing . People wonder why attendance is down, whose paying to watch that Shitshow? Not many.

Don't blame you at all. If I believed for one minute our players showed willful LACK OF EFFORT I would never hang around to be embarrassed.

But it's still bs.

 

[turbovol]

Jill is freaking LAZY. Plays with little and sometimes NO EFFORT. I see No sense of urgency in any player that touched the floor last night. OSU played like their hair was on fire. I'd say they know what their coach expects from them. I can handle losing. What I can't handle is losing with NO EFFORT. They have to play Hard for 40 minutes. They aren't good enough to win if they don't.

Good points. We have very little intensity when we play. You look at these other quality teams and their players are going after it. They are competitive and playing hard--individually and as a team. We play....somewhat hard, occasionally, off and on. I disagree with much of what Jumper says on this site, but we do need some leaders and some alphas in the program--on the sideline and on the court. A demanding head coach will will drill the team in practice /relentlessly/ until they start playing at a high tempo constantly and stop committing stupid turnovers with bad decisions, lazy passes, slow movement.

It's one thing to lose or struggle a bit without your best scorer--but if your fundamentals are good, and your team is tough-minded and competitive and well-drilled, it should still be able to play competently. It's not ok to look--lose-- like we did yesterday. We are a bad team fundamentally--and we've been bad fundamentally for years. We need to find a coach who can light a fire under the players. We've got another coach who can't seem to do that or teach the basics of basketball well enough. Our recruiting has been terrible. That said, if the solution to recruiting woes is to simply throw cash at some 17-year-old and her parents---out-bribe other programs--well, I fear I'm going to have to stop following college sports altogether, as it's getting too seedy and absurd for me. It's a terrible message to be sending to American high-schoolers.

 

[Deebowbear]

Well said

He will destroy the program if she is the coach next year it’s bad now

 

[chuckiepoo]

What was wrong w the answer? It was like, yeah I know, I agree. KJH has said many times Jill needs to be more aggressive on both ends. That is not exactly a state secret.

Jill's a better 4 than a post. She's really not a banger, though she gives it good effort. Jill has such a pretty shot, she's more a finesse player.

So whatever relief TK is able to give Jill to step out is a good thing. The positives of playing TK have to outweigh the negatives though, and until suddenly Sunday that wasn't the case. She's made a leap though and if she continues to log effective minutes, that helps Jill and the team so much.

Most surprising to me was that TK was physically able to go up and down for 16 mins. That's a great sign.

…talk dirty to me GLV…

 

[glv98]

…talk dirty to me GLV…

filthy minded old letch!

 

[madtownvol]

Don't blame you at all. If I believed for one minute our players showed willful LACK OF EFFORT I would never hang around to be embarrassed.

But it's still bs.

And here something everyone seems to be overlooking. That four in a row slate of games was going to be a challenge with Rickea; without her, the physical and mental demands went up a bunch.

The played hard against Indiana but just did not make enough shots; they won a close won against OK and lost a close one (and mentally draining game) against ND. At the point, the team really needed one or two cupcake games before facing OSU.

The mental and physical fatigue was evident. They just weren't up for the fight.

 

[Dak1219]

I'm also deeply hating how I'm feeling mostly bc my game buddy is just crushed. She idolizes RJ and was literally counting the days til the season started. She'll be off to college next year, so this was our last big basketball go round together. Of course we'll have many more good times together in the next year, but to have the season crumble so early and RJ out so long has been just awful for her.

I'm not a bit ashamed I held on to the thin hope for so long. The scenario for this year was flimsy, but there seemed like a remote chance. RJ, plus the portal pieces, would carry us to enough ranked wins to change the narrative of the LVs as a middling team w middling players who can't win big games. Then we could get some decent recruits. But that bandaid got cruelly ripped off and the whole ugly scab is hanging out now. And witnessed by millions on national tv.

The hell of it is if RJ plays, IMO we definitely beat Notre Dame. The second half collapse wouldn't have happened. Even w ND crippled themselves, that would have been huge. We would have had a chance against OSU w RJ, since just like w ND, I saw no one out there who could have guarded her. McMahon would have fouled out even earlier trying. Just add RJ's average, 22 pts and 12 rebounds, and it all changes. At least we wouldn't have been humiliated. We'd have gone 2-2 or even 3-1 in the biggest four game stretch this program has had in a long time.

But not to be. The only hope now is a very good conference run and a miracle deep tourney run. Could happen, but w RJ's status up in the air and the rest, most espec the coaching, being what they are, I'm not optimistic. And even if that did happen, we've now had a very painful look at next year and it ain't pretty.

Nothing will happen to KJH this year, but IMO after next year serious discussion will be underway.

What is really killing his team is not having the post presence that we need. Sarah Puckett is not built for that four spot and Jill howlingshed does not want anything to do with a back to the basket five spot. When we get RJ and tamari back on the floor and have more of a post presence it is going to open up our guards and give them cleaner looks of the basket. We have very capable shooters but if you've noticed the last couple games they're being overplayed and ran off their spot because the people guarding them don't have to back up and help out in the paint. Our defense will improve tremendously. Look what tamari did in that short stretch when Ohio State couldn't get a basket inside the paint. That was because a six foot six rim protector was in there. Definitely not because the guard pressure was anymore at that time. This team's getting ready to go on and 8 to 10 game winning streak, maybe more so I think their confidence will be back and they'll be playing with high motor offense and a very good defense very soon. This season is far from over and you will see the lady Vols back in the top 25 if no more injuries show they're ugly heads. Actually I wouldn't even count them out of those top four seeds for the NCAA tournament when it's all said and done.

 

[Dak1219]

I'm also deeply hating how I'm feeling mostly bc my game buddy is just crushed. She idolizes RJ and was literally counting the days til the season started. She'll be off to college next year, so this was our last big basketball go round together. Of course we'll have many more good times together in the next year, but to have the season crumble so early and RJ out so long has been just awful for her.

I'm not a bit ashamed I held on to the thin hope for so long. The scenario for this year was flimsy, but there seemed like a remote chance. RJ, plus the portal pieces, would carry us to enough ranked wins to change the narrative of the LVs as a middling team w middling players who can't win big games. Then we could get some decent recruits. But that bandaid got cruelly ripped off and the whole ugly scab is hanging out now. And witnessed by millions on national tv.

The hell of it is if RJ plays, IMO we definitely beat Notre Dame. The second half collapse wouldn't have happened. Even w ND crippled themselves, that would have been huge. We would have had a chance against OSU w RJ, since just like w ND, I saw no one out there who could have guarded her. McMahon would have fouled out even earlier trying. Just add RJ's average, 22 pts and 12 rebounds, and it all changes. At least we wouldn't have been humiliated. We'd have gone 2-2 or even 3-1 in the biggest four game stretch this program has had in a long time.

But not to be. The only hope now is a very good conference run and a miracle deep tourney run. Could happen, but w RJ's status up in the air and the rest, most espec the coaching, being what they are, I'm not optimistic. And even if that did happen, we've now had a very painful look at next year and it ain't pretty.

Nothing will happen to KJH this year, but IMO after next year serious discussion will be underway.

What is really killing his team is not having the post presence that we need. Sarah Puckett is not built for that four spot and Jill howlingshed does not want anything to do with a back to the basket five spot. When we get RJ and tamari back on the floor and have more of a post presence it is going to open up our guards and give them cleaner looks of the basket. We have very capable shooters but if you've noticed the last couple games they're being overplayed and ran off their spot because the people guarding them don't have to back up and help out in the paint. Our defense will improve tremendously. Look what tamari did in that short stretch when Ohio State couldn't get a basket inside the paint. That was because a six foot six rim protector was in there. Definitely not because the guard pressure was anymore at that time. This team's getting ready to go on and 8 to 10 game winning streak, maybe more so I think their confidence will be back and they'll be playing with high motor offense and a very good defense very soon. This season is far from over and you will see the lady Vols back in the top 25 if no more injuries show they're ugly heads. Actually I wouldn't even count them out of those top four seeds for the NCAA tournament when it's all said and done.

 

[Majors]

Don't blame you at all. If I believed for one minute our players showed willful LACK OF EFFORT I would never hang around to be embarrassed.

But it's still bs.

We lack athleticism as a whole.

 

[djtee]

Jill is freaking LAZY. Plays with little and sometimes NO EFFORT. I see No sense of urgency in any player that touched the floor last night. OSU played like their hair was on fire. I'd say they know what their coach expects from them. I can handle losing. What I can't handle is losing with NO EFFORT. They have to play Hard for 40 minutes. They aren't good enough to win if they don't.

I don't think she is lazy I just think she lacks a good coach. Only 4 blocks in 8 games is not helping the team. I know many guards that have more then 4 blocks. And like i said and i sand by it, Coach KJH needs to demand more from Jill on both ends of the floor because right now she has been a disappointment i think. We can agree to disagree.

 

[VolBall09]

I don't think she is lazy I just think she lacks a good coach. Only 4 blocks in 8 games is not helping the team. I know many guards that have more then 4 blocks. And like i said and i sand by it, Coach KJH needs to demand more from Jill on both ends of the floor because right now she has been a disappointment i think. We can agree to disagree.

Well Jon was supposed to be the post coach.

Joy seems to do most of it but she isn’t a 5 coach. She’s more of a small forward type coach.

Still think Jon needs to be out of the picture. He’s always in Kellie’s ear and it’s hard to tell if that’s beneficial or not. She’s the one who was a PG on a bunch of national championship teams. Not Jonny boy.

I’m sure they’re a package deal and will both be fired together but she should have fired him three years ago and hired an offensive specialist.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

Jon reports to the AD, not Kellie. That's how the University got around the nepotism and conflict of interest. Don't see her throwing him under the bus.

 

[Volfan2012]

Well Jon was supposed to be the post coach.

Joy seems to do most of it but she isn’t a 5 coach. She’s more of a small forward type coach.

Still think Jon needs to be out of the picture. He’s always in Kellie’s ear and it’s hard to tell if that’s beneficial or not. She’s the one who was a PG on a bunch of national championship teams. Not Jonny boy.

I’m sure they’re a package deal and will both be fired together but she should have fired him three years ago and hired an offensive specialist.

From the results we are seeing against the top teams it has to be viewed as not beneficial. Plus all the coaches got this team thinking to much. They are talking to them as soon as they get in the offensive court. Wells got her pocket picked trying to listen to instructions while dribbling on a possession in the Ohio State game. You call a timeout to stop runs, but other than that you just have to let them play. They should know how to find an open player and that player shoot the ball. Dribbling around for 20 seconds trying to get the ball inside is just not helpful. If players can't hit a decent percentage of open looks then they shouldn't be on the court.

 

[Volfan2012]

For sure, a much deserved small victory and for the team too.

Listen, if I ever had blood clots in my lungs I wouldn't be confident to get out of the recliner the rest of my life, much less play D1 basketball. I think TK's confidence in her own body has been shaky, but she pushed past some of that yesterday. Good on her.

That has been a huge part of the problem for her. Getting the confidence back to actually be willing to push her body to higher level of fitness. Anyone would have a mental block after what she has went through. I salute her for even coming back to basketball at all.

 

[Volfan2012]

LOL it was bad enough for Jewel, don't make it worse. She was 0-9 total, 0-8 fm three and 0-1 fm two pt range.

But yes, that's unacceptable and along w her very spotty D, is what got her pulled. It's alarming to me that she only took one shot that wasn't a three. I thought she would be much better creating her shot off the dribble. Saw that alot in her WF footage. Jewel definitely misses the massive defensive distraction of Rickea.

You think about Rickea being in the game making about 8 or 9 of those 40 shots we missed and the score doesn't look as bad in the end. Still somehow this team has to lower the turnover level or force the other team into the same amount of turnovers. We can't win when the opponent gets 7 more offensive rebounds and 8 less turnovers. Seems like everybody forgot how to shoot the ball when Rickea went down with the injury. My pre-season thoughts about this team being very good offensively is quickly going down the drain.

 

[djtee]

Well Jon was supposed to be the post coach.

Joy seems to do most of it but she isn’t a 5 coach. She’s more of a small forward type coach.

Still think Jon needs to be out of the picture. He’s always in Kellie’s ear and it’s hard to tell if that’s beneficial or not. She’s the one who was a PG on a bunch of national championship teams. Not Jonny boy.

I’m sure they’re a package deal and will both be fired together but she should have fired him three years ago and hired an offensive specialist.

WOW! You really went in on Kellie & Hubby

 

[Majors]

You think about Rickea being in the game making about 8 or 9 of those 40 shots we missed and the score doesn't look as bad in the end. Still somehow this team has to lower the turnover level or force the other team into the same amount of turnovers. We can't win when the opponent gets 7 more offensive rebounds and 8 less turnovers. Seems like everybody forgot how to shoot the ball when Rickea went down with the injury. My pre-season thoughts about this team being very good offensively is quickly going down the drain.

We’ll have to find scoring as teams see how we struggled. Gamelan against us when she returns will be make someone else beat you. Take RJ out and dont let her get 20+ points but keep her around 10-14 and make someone else cover the difference.

 

[Volfan2012]

We’ll have to find scoring as teams see how we struggled. Gamelan against us when she returns will be make someone else beat you. Take RJ out and dont let her get 20+ points but keep her around 10-14 and make someone else cover the difference.

What we have determined is Rickea is the difference between us shooting 36 percent and shooting 45 percent in a game. Sad but true she is going to need to be the difference maker for this team or we won't be going to the NCAA tourney for the first time ever.

 

[AllVols3]

I don't think she is lazy I just think she lacks a good coach. Only 4 blocks in 8 games is not helping the team. I know many guards that have more then 4 blocks. And like i said and i sand by it, Coach KJH needs to demand more from Jill on both ends of the floor because right now she has been a disappointment i think. We can agree to disagree.

You can't coach effort and want to. You either have it or you don't . It's also not something that comes and goes. You either play hard or you don't. So answer me this. Whi plays hard for the Lady Vols for 40min?

 

[madtownvol]

You think about Rickea being in the game making about 8 or 9 of those 40 shots we missed and the score doesn't look as bad in the end. Still somehow this team has to lower the turnover level or force the other team into the same amount of turnovers. We can't win when the opponent gets 7 more offensive rebounds and 8 less turnovers. Seems like everybody forgot how to shoot the ball when Rickea went down with the injury. My pre-season thoughts about this team being very good offensively is quickly going down the drain.

As you know, a player of Rickea's caliber changes a lot of things. Defenses have to become oriented toward her, which opens up space for Spears, Powell, Puckett, and Wells. She is a rebounding force which has been a relative weak spot for the team since she has been out. And her defensive skill is easily overlooked but she is the team's best perimeter defender. And I do think everybody plays looser with her on the court. Plus the offense has a focal point so we would have less of those "what do we do now?" possessions.

As great as Rickea was playing before this injury, she was missing some some shots that she wound normally make. I suspect her calf (or whatever) was effecting her a bit then. Give her one game to shake the rust off and she will be a monster and lo and behold, other players are going to look much more proficient.

It is not ideal that this team is so dependent on one player but it is what it is and not a first for the LVs. Where would have those last two championship teams been without CP3?

 

[Volfan2012]

As you know, a players of Rickea caliber changes a lot of things. Defenses have to become oriented toward her, which opens up space for Spears, Powell, Puckett, and Wells. She is a rebounding force which has been a relative weak spot for the team since she has been out And her defensive skill is easily overlooked but she is the team's best perimeter defender. And I do think everybody plays looser with her on the court. Plus the offense has a focal point so we would have less of those "what do we do now?" possessions.

As great as Rickea was playing before this injury, she was missing some some shots that she wound normally make. I suspect her calf (or whatever) was effecting her a bit then. Give her one game to shake the rust off and she will be a monster and lo and behold, other players are going to look much more proficient.

It is not ideal that this team is so dependent on one player but it is what it is and not a first for the LVs. Where would have those last two championship teams been without CP3?

Not depend totally of course but she is a player than can make 8 or 9 field goals a game in an efficient manner meaning at least 45 to 50 percent from the field where some other player or group of players may go 4 of 15 so she is good for additional points just by being able to play. She is fairly consistent on the court where many of our other players are up and down. I don't want to be totally dependent on her just that she gets her 15 shots per game which most of the time will mean more points than if someone else on the team took them. I'd say in most gamed she raises out point average at least 10 to 12 points.

 

[djtee]

You can't coach effort and want to. You either have it or you don't . It's also not something that comes and goes. You either play hard or you don't. So answer me this. Whi plays hard for the Lady Vols for 40min?

Like i said Jill stands at 6-5 long & talented and needs to show up against every team with or without TK on the floor.

 

[Coach Jumper]

You can't coach effort and want to. You either have it or you don't . It's also not something that comes and goes. You either play hard or you don't. So answer me this. Whi plays hard for the Lady Vols for 40min?

In the 1996 SEC women's tournament. Pat Summitt Said something. I will never forget.

When asked this very question she replied... "I will coach anything but passion, if I have to teach you to love my sport. I don't want you"

 

[Darth_Vol]

Well Jon was supposed to be the post coach.

And worth every penny...

 

[Go aeiou]

Jon reports to the AD, not Kellie. That's how the University got around the nepotism and conflict of interest. Don't see her throwing him under the bus.

Nepotism is nepotism. And this is a classic case of why.
The technical "got around" is a farce.
OK if he's serving popcorn and cokes. No way he should have a $140,000/yr job at UT.
Something like being a biologist and working at TN Dept. of Environment and Conservation would be ok provided there is no favoritism.