Game Thread: Lady Vols at Miss St; 7PM; SEC network

[mudcat1973]

I guess she was stretching her back on the floor when her shoulder was bothering her then? @OrngeJuiceJones when was on the floor in pain. jordan horston

 

[Majors]

IMO, yes. She's just too far out of her league out there right now.

So IYO, did Kellie miss on her evaluation on Justine? Is Justine not as developed as Puckett or Darby were as freshman? Different years and different needs on the court I understand. Those two saw time as FR and were/are liabilities (still are against faster athletic teams).

 

[glv98]

Jackson, for example, is not a good defender because she doesn't really care 100 percent
about being a good defender. She plays defense upright--and that causes her to get beat off the dribble like most everyone else on the team.
She could be a very good defender if she wanted to, but it's clear that she isn't totally committed. You can't properly guard somebody with the ball
when you are practically standing straight up--and that's what she does. It's fundamentals and commitment--and on the defensive end, she doesn't
have them. We need her to be more committed defensively because the rest of the team struggles so much to defend.

Totally disagree. I thought RJ played really good D last night and does most of the time. She made a great stop and forced a t.o. when we needed it most. Also a great defensive play on the steal of out of bounds play. Also a couple of nice blocks. Like everything w her, she makes it look effortless.

The times RJ slacks off D is bc she is so cautious about fouling. When someone gets around her (which happens to everyone on the team), she does not foul even if it means letting them score. Sometimes does not come over to help for the same reason. As our only consistent scorer, I can see why she doesn't give up the fouls. Not sure it's a bad decision.

 

[lvocd]

Defense has been and is the problem. This team doesn't have a lot of energy and decision making is a flat 0.

Really, I believe it may be our general lack of quickness that is affecting everything. A fast/hard-driving opponent attacks and we struggle to stay in front of them. Then, because we lack (overall) speed, that means opposing defenses CAN stay in front of US. The offense sputters because we generally aren't moving our bodies/reacting as quickly as many of our opponents.

The want-to is there with this team. It's obvious to me they work very hard and they never give up. Getting to two overtimes last night after they'd been pretty much dead in the water demonstrated their competitiveness and desire. We're just a step slower in some key areas, and these days that's difficult to overcome. And we have a very quick, good defender guard in Miles, but I'm gathering her being on the small side is keeping her off the floor.

We just haven't been able to land the RJ-level quick players, and we have got to figure that out soon.

 

[Majors]

Really, I believe it may be our general lack of quickness that is affecting everything. A fast/hard-driving opponent attacks and we struggle to stay in front of them. Then, because we lack (overall) speed, that means opposing defenses CAN stay in front of US. The offense sputters because we generally aren't moving our bodies/reacting as quickly as many of our opponents.

The want-to is there with this team. It's obvious to me they work very hard and they never give up. Getting to two overtimes last night after they'd been pretty much dead in the water demonstrated their competitiveness and desire. We're just a step slower in some key areas, and these days that's difficult to overcome. And we have a very quick, good defender guard in Miles, but I'm gathering her being on the small side is keeping her off the floor.

We just haven't been able to land the RJ-level quick players, and we have got to figure that out soon.

We lack athletes outside of JH and RJ….less talented but more athletic teams will expose our weakness/lack of quickness.

 

[creekdipper]

The big difference is Mulkey could afford a loss or two and still play their first two NCAA games at home. We can't afford any losses probably an 8 or 9 seed now and that is where death in the tourney comes early. We got to keep playing though miracles happen.

I just find it incredibly ironic (and amusing) that almost everyone here was soundly mocking Mulkey's non-schedule earlier yet now most of those same people are declaring her a genius for padding her entire seadon resume with automatic wins.

Oh, how quickly the worm turns....

 

[Darth_Vol]

We lack athletes outside of JH and RJ….less talented but more athletic teams will expose our weakness/lack of quickness.

Almost like... a mid-major team.

 

[glv98]

I just find it incredibly ironic (and amusing) that almost everyone here was soundly mocking Mulkey's non-schedule earlier yet now mist of those same people are declaring her a genius for padding her entire seadon resume with automatic wins.

Oh, how quickly the worm turns....

Well it's sort of hard to debate the results. Her schedule is crap, and I'd hate to sit thru it, but damn if it hasn't worked for her. We didn't want that to be true, but obviously it is.

Speaking of sitting thru awful stuff, I just got a season ticket renewal notice in my email. Get yours early, while they're available! Talk about your bad timing . . .

 

[Majors]

Almost like... a mid-major team.

We are closer to Belmont than SC, UConn, LSU and Stanford.

 

[Majors]

Well it's sort of hard to debate the results. Her schedule is crap, and I'd hate to sit thru it, but damn if it hasn't worked for her. We didn't want that to be true, but obviously it is.

Speaking of sitting thru awful stuff, I just got a season ticket renewal notice in my email. Get yours early, while they're available! Talk about your bad timing . . .

Danny reading the room to get folks locked in.

 

[Volfan2012]

Really, I believe it may be our general lack of quickness that is affecting everything. A fast/hard-driving opponent attacks and we struggle to stay in front of them. Then, because we lack (overall) speed, that means opposing defenses CAN stay in front of US. The offense sputters because we generally aren't moving our bodies/reacting as quickly as many of our opponents.

The want-to is there with this team. It's obvious to me they work very hard and they never give up. Getting to two overtimes last night after they'd been pretty much dead in the water demonstrated their competitiveness and desire. We're just a step slower in some key areas, and these days that's difficult to overcome. And we have a very quick, good defender guard in Miles, but I'm gathering her being on the small side is keeping her off the floor.

We just haven't been able to land the RJ-level quick players, and we have got to figure that out soon.

It is definitely quickness that is causing our defensive problems no one could not learn the technique by now. If you are slow all the technique in the world will not help you. On offense we have some standers slow to move and don't care to move. We really don't have an answer unless we decided to start Wynn whether she could score on not along with Jackson, Horston, Walker, and Hollingshead. Darby score 8 a game but probably gives up 12 and that goes for players like Striplin and others as well. Coach has to know how to build a team and Kellie has not put it all together that is obvious.

 

[th2421]

We are closer to Belmont than SC, UConn, LSU and Stanford.

That's just not true. We're #20 in the NET, Belmont is #92. We're #13 in Her Hoop Stats ratings, Belmont is #76. Our RPI is #22, Belmont is #86. We lost to LSU and Stanford, both on the road, by a combined 15 points.

We beat Chattanooga by 30, Belmont beat them by 2. We beat Georgia by 13, Belmont lost to Georgia by 11.

 

[Lurker]

For most fans of this storied program -apathy has set in.

I disagree. That's why there is so much kvetching on this website. Many want better and still care.

 

[Volfan2012]

I really wanted Kellie to succeed here and it just is not happening. She keeps talking at the end of games how we are getting better and you just can't see it in games. What we going to do next season? If were starting over think it would be better to do it with a more established coach. Jackson is leaving she isn't staying here for anymore of this. Other than Hollingshead and maybe Puckett and possibly Justine I can't think of another player that I care about staying. Of course if Kellie goes they probably go to, but looks like were starting over again next season unless a miracle happens in the portal so we could do that with someone else.

 

[ncteacher88]

I just find it incredibly ironic (and amusing) that almost everyone here was soundly mocking Mulkey's non-schedule earlier yet now mist of those same people are declaring her a genius for padding her entire season resume with automatic wins. Oh, how quickly the worm turns....

On Thursday we will get the first glimpse of if her scheduling was a smart move or not. The polls don't matter. They will have their first reveal on Thursday and we will get a sense of what the committee thinks about having a 112 SOS and a 308 non-conference SOS. Their NET is 3, but their RPI is 20. If they are rewarded for such poor scheduling it will be a message to other top programs and a big step backwards for women's basketball. Schools will not be rewarded for scheduling tough early season non-conference games which are ratings and fan favorites, and we will go back to having mostly hundred point wins over cupcakes with nobody watching.

 

[turbovol]

We lack athletes outside of JH and RJ….less talented but more athletic teams will expose our weakness/lack of quickness.

We do have athleticism/quickness issues--and a coach who doesn't do enough to compensate. Hollingshead is athletic for her size and is really coming on as a player. So I would argue that we have 3 players who should compare favorably with any trio in the country. Wynn is athletic: It was shocking how much she stood out playing defense for us in the first half, because she moves well. I can't remember seeing her play in quite some time--but I could have missed it. Harper should be using her more in defensive situations--of which there are many in games. We are really a lousy defensive team: I've never seen a team that gets beat off the dribble as much as we do. We should be playing more zone, and it baffles me why we don't. We played a little last night in the 3rd quarter. I'm not sure it would help much--because you have to be active and smart when playing a zone (know where the opponent's shooters are) and we tend to be not smart.

Beyond our defensive incompetence, we don't not run an offense that makes the most of our role-playing shooters (Darby, Puckett) and we simply make too many fundamental mistakes in every game--on both ends of the court. What's more, our best players are inconsistent. Horston will have a super game and then follow it with a poor shooting/high turnover game. Last night the problem was she got into serious foul trouble early. She is very up and down when we need her mostly up. Jackson is consistently good offensively but clearly not fully committed on the defensive end of the court. She plays upright--which is a tendency with lazy defenders--and then gets beat off the dribble like everybody else on our team. She could be a very good defender--but isn't. Our point guard play is mediocre: Walker had six TOs last night--and we had 23 as a team.

Despite all these problems, we've been competitive with most of the top teams we've played. But when your margin of error is small, and that is certainly the case with this team, you have to be a smart team, a fundamental team, and keep your mistakes to a minimum. That we don't do. I feel like a really good coach would get about 10-15 percent more out of this team. And then, on top of all this, Harper is hurting herself badly with our absolutely terrible recruiting, which increasingly looks like it will jeopardize her job.

 

[Majors]

That's just not true. We're #20 in the NET, Belmont is #92. We're #13 in Her Hoop Stats ratings, Belmont is #76. Our RPI is #22, Belmont is #86. We lost to LSU and Stanford, both on the road, by a combined 15 points.

We beat Chattanooga by 30, Belmont beat them by 2. We beat Georgia by 13, Belmont lost to Georgia by 11.

So they would give us a good game again. You can zig and zag through the NET rankings, it does not take away from the fact we are closer to a mid-major program than we are the Top Tier. Would MTSU been a better example of in-state mid major?

 

[Volfan2012]

Just got home from work and watched the highlights that Maria shared. Didn't hear Rice but some female. The female said Parker at least 3 or 4 times with just the highlights. Ummm Hollingshead isn't close to Parker. Who does these games? She should be lit up on social media. I know UT lost but how does someone even remotely voice games and able to yell out Parker? It's SEC women's basketball. Get the name right. I just can't fathom being so bad at your job, repeatedly. Yet Kellie holds the keys to UT and is failing miserably as well. Must be nice. Start Striplin again. Please look like a dumbass over and over again. Bet Kellie likes losing consistently as she loves to keep her starting lineup. Stay consistent losing Kellie get that seat hot. I would love someone in the media to ask about Pissott deserving more minutes and then never gets in the following game. Plus someone ask what do you run as a coach after a timeout? I just don't understand how a team literally can't run 1 offensive set play to end a quarter all year. When my mom who rarely watches sports is yelling at the TV something needs to be done. The excitement I had before the season until now just makes me want to scream how was I so fooled. Run a simple play. That's not hard as a fan to ask. Simply garbage and I am done giving excuses. Kellie can't recruit obviously, what top 30 team has 1 recruit in 2 years? Oh not 1. This is what UT Lady Vols basketball has become? Like after Fulmer now 15 years have nothing. Darth and it kills me to day this but he or she is 100% correct. I hope no one shows up when South Carolina spanks that orange behind in TBA. Kellie should resign right after.

Certainly not a Parker anywhere near this team. She could add Parker now and beat Miss St by 20 point even at this time in her career. If we had a Parker we wouldn't be talking about already losing nine games.

 

[creekdipper]

Really, I believe it may be our general lack of quickness that is affecting everything. A fast/hard-driving opponent attacks and we struggle to stay in front of them. Then, because we lack (overall) speed, that means opposing defenses CAN stay in front of US. The offense sputters because we generally aren't moving our bodies/reacting as quickly as many of our opponents.

The want-to is there with this team. It's obvious to me they work very hard and they never give up. Getting to two overtimes last night after they'd been pretty much dead in the water demonstrated their competitiveness and desire. We're just a step slower in some key areas, and these days that's difficult to overcome. And we have a very quick, good defender guard in Miles, but I'm gathering her being on the small side is keeping her off the floor.

We just haven't been able to land the RJ-level quick players, and we have got to figure that out soon.

The quickness needs while still playing hard seems to be a reasoned, accurate observation.

Imo, this particular weakness creates several major defensive problems. The perimeter guards are afraid of getting beaten off the dribble, so they are prone to back off and to go behind screens instead of sliding over the top, even when there is plenty of room to do so. The offensive player then has plenty of space to operate or to step back for an open three. Same for Tess, except she usually tries to go over the screen. But if she closes out and the offense gets a first step, they're gone. So we either give up a layup or try to help and leave a unguarded shooter in the corner.

Likewise, in the paint, our posts have a hard time sliding over to stop a quick guard curling around the lane (or a quick post player). And we don't have a consistent shot blocker due to lack of height or quickness.

The same problems crop up on offense. We rarely take anyone off the dribble and are so focused on protecting the ball that we don't find open teammates. Several times we had Jill or Rickea posting up hard in a mismatch and wouldn't or couldn't get the ball inside. We have trouble getting free on out of bounds plays and usually end up throwing the ball over the top toward midcourt. And when we do get someone free in the corner, we don't find them. On one in-bounds play, Walker ignored a wide-open Sara who had just hit two shots, tried to force it inside, and turned it over.

We can be a good offensive team if we'll just get better at setting and using screens. Our posts do a decent job of setting inside screens to seal off defenders. But our guards won't take the defense into the screen (when teammates actually set picks). Or ignore and wave off the screens. It should be second nature by now. Doing that alone would increase movement, although other teammates need to react and keep moving to avoid bunching up.

Hard to increase quickness, but teams can be coached to hide weaknesses by playing good position defense, anticipating passes, trapping smaller players in double teams, etc. Will never be ideal but often enough to win, often by a comfortable margin.

Gut-check time for team and staff. They need to ignore the outside noise from the fickle rabble and recommit to getting better. That's the challenge for the staff.

As for the challenge to the fans, better left unsaid. Real fans know how to behave during a trying season. The rest don't matter.

 

[creekdipper]

That's just not true. We're #20 in the NET, Belmont is #92. We're #13 in Her Hoop Stats ratings, Belmont is #76. Our RPI is #22, Belmont is #86. We lost to LSU and Stanford, both on the road, by a combined 15 points.

We beat Chattanooga by 30, Belmont beat them by 2. We beat Georgia by 13, Belmont lost to Georgia by 11.

Stop quoting facts!!! Stick to the narrative!

What are you? A fan?

 

[Voluble2]

I just find it incredibly ironic (and amusing) that almost everyone here was soundly mocking Mulkey's non-schedule earlier yet now mist of those same people are declaring her a genius for padding her entire seadon resume with automatic wins.

Oh, how quickly the worm turns....

The homers here always mock UConn's weak schedule and now they mock LSU's. They do this despite the fact those weak schedules prepare those teams well enough to beat us on the regular. It's just a way of making excuses for us underperforming like we always do.

It's always something. This week the excuse is that the trash team who just beat us at The Dump had more rest than we did despite the fact our entire philosophy is built around running players in and out so that they are fresh and other teams regularly beating us with barely enough players to fill out a team.

 

[Tnphil]

The homers here always mock UConn's weak schedule and now they mock LSU's. They do this despite the fact those weak schedules prepare those teams well enough to beat us on the regular. It's just a way of making excuses for us underperforming like we always do.

It's always something. This week the excuse is that the trash team who just beat us at The Dump had more rest than we did despite the fact our entire philosophy is built around running players in and out so that they are fresh and other teams regularly beating us with barely enough players to fill out a team.

Nail meets head...

 

[Amb3096]

The homers here always mock UConn's weak schedule and now they mock LSU's. They do this despite the fact those weak schedules prepare those teams well enough to beat us on the regular. It's just a way of making excuses for us underperforming like we always do.

It's always something. This week the excuse is that the trash team who just beat us at The Dump had more rest than we did despite the fact our entire philosophy is built around running players in and out so that they are fresh and other teams regularly beating us with barely enough players to fill out a team.

UConn always schedules top competition in their OOC, but their conference sucks. So you know what they are capable of when they're plowing through top 20 teams in Nov/Dec. LSU...whether they are real are not is TBD. Logically, if they padded their OOC with cupcakes but were really a paper tiger, then they would get exposed against better competition. This is nothing new for Kim either, because she did the same thing when she was at Baylor, but then would proceed to bulldoze through the B12 so it didn't really matter. But it is clear that LSU is at least 2nd best in the SEC even with their pathetic OOC. At this point of the season, they are likely only going to lose to SC. Whether this says more about the SEC conference as a whole or. LSU is probably to be debated.

 

[lvocd]

Well it's sort of hard to debate the results. Her schedule is crap, and I'd hate to sit thru it, but damn if it hasn't worked for her. We didn't want that to be true, but obviously it is.

Speaking of sitting thru awful stuff, I just got a season ticket renewal notice in my email. Get yours early, while they're available! Talk about your bad timing . . .

I feel tremendous empathy for the staff for what can now be labeled a scheduling debacle because, honestly, it seemed to the majority of people that it was a bold-but-exciting move. Few people thought it would be as much of a struggle to get the team to mesh. Noone expected Tamari to have her season cut short, or that Horston would be injured, or that there might be some team chemistry/personality issues early on that might throw all these wrenches in the works.

I can't blame Kellie for wanting to make a statement to future recruits about the excitement of Lady Vol basketball once again taking up the historic mantle of playing one of the toughest schedules in the sport. I mean, it truly seemed to me that she had made a brilliant move that, when this team rose to the occasion against all these ranked opponents, that the season tickets and NIL memberships would absolutely fly sky high!

It WAS a calculated risk, and I still think it was worth taking if I had been in her position at the time the schedule was being designed. We Lady Vol fans are often critical of other program's scheduling, so I feel like we are partly to blame for Harper feeling like she needed to be willing to step up the scheduling if the critics were going to be checking for improvements in all areas of the program.

It obviously didn't go as planned, but I'm honestly not mad at her for taking that risk because it really didn't seem to most that there was any way it'd come back to bite her in the butt.

On the other hand, Mulkey and LSU have no such fan mandate to play a tough, exciting schedule. Kim has NEVER scheduled tough OOC games anywhere she's coached, so nobody expects her to do it. I kinda feel like the Lady Vol Legacy actually hurt Kellie in that way. Her hope of pulling off a successful season with THIS year's schedule, thus finally, firmly placing the Lady Vols back into true elite status, was worth (IMO) taking that chance for.

I still support Kellie, 100%. She's just got to figure out a way to get past whatever roadblocks are preventing the top fives from giving Tennessee their hearts.

 

[Majors]

Hard to increase quickness, but teams can be coached to hide weaknesses by playing good position defense, anticipating passes, trapping smaller players in double teams, etc. Will never be ideal but often enough to win, often by a comfortable margin.

Same game plan Pearl had when he got here. He had the luxury of Lofton but had to scheme and out-hustle teams to create turnovers and get extra possessions in year 1.