Game Thread Lady Vols at West Virginia

[VolFuture2k22]

Totally disagree. I have seen absolutely nothing in the first 3 games that indicates bad attitude. I thought they fought hard throughout the game today, certainly did not see a lack of competitiveness.

Its so interesting to me how often sloppy play is attributed to willful bad behavior - bad attitude, low IQ, laziness, lack of desire, etc. Its why so many people seem to think players can be punished out of errant play. I wonder why we do this?

If you think this team was being competitive... oof. Competitors want to win, not worry about “how they looked or played” or if it will affect their draft stock. 18 post touches, no shots by the one player who got you to overtime IN overtime BIG OOF

 

[madtownvol]

All this game proved to me is that the players aren’t fully bought in to Kellie’s system... and neither are the LV fans. Kellie likes playing 10-12 players and have everyone contribute. It’s apparent to me that most fans here don’t believe in a system like that.

I think Kellie is having a coaching dilemma with the current team. On one hand she wants to implement her system and have everyone contribute, starter or not, and on the other hand she realizes the girls she currently has weren’t recruited for a system like that.

Whichever she chooses though, the players MUST BUY IN because right now I believe the Lady Vols biggest flaw is a bad attitude and lack of competitiveness when they do get their minutes (Most likely caused by said dilemma above).

Except that is not what happened in this game. Kellie played 10 players but two Destiny Salary and Rennie combined for a massive 1 minute.

Davis 41 min.
Burrell 36
Horston 33
Green 32
KK 26
Walker 21
Suarez 18
Key 17

And minutes for Burrell and Key were further limited by foul trouble. So, I think drawing inferences buy-in and the rest from this game is probably not warranted.

Also, WV allocated almost all their minutes among 8 players as well (with a similar distribution) and that because most teams now use a 7 to 8 person rotation. It looks like for bigger games, Kellie is going to do the same.

 

[VolFuture2k22]

Totally disagree with that. I thought they were way better than the end of our bench! If not poor Emily could have played the whole game!

Not out of highschool they weren’t. And that seems to be the appropriate measure for this page #rankings lol

 

[VolFuture2k22]

Except that is not what happened in this game. Kellie played 10 players but two Destiny Salary and Rennie combined for a massive 1 minute.

Davis 41 min.
Burrell 36
Horston 33
Green 32
KK 26
Walker 21
Suarez 18
Key 17

And minutes for Burrell and Key were further limited by foul trouble. So, I think drawing inferences buy-in and the rest from this game is probably not warranted.

Also, WV allocated almost all their minutes among 8 players as well (with a similar distribution) and that because most teams now use a 7 to 8 person rotation. It looks like for bigger games, Kellie is going to do the same.

That’s actually my point tho.. it seems when we got to the “hard” game she changed her philosophy. Also, on “buy in” maybe go check Twitter, the fact they are tweeting about their loss/performance is so embarrassing to me. It screams ME over WE and I don’t care what the tweet says

 

[Amb3096]

Right. We been fairly lousy for a long time so our standards are indeed lowered. The good ole days, heady as they were, were barely in the lifetime of these players. Haven't sniffed a deep tourney run in ages, much less an FF. You accurately and painfully trace the inevitable sad path to lowered expectations.

But have you had a recent bout of amnesia? We knew all this coming in to the season. Beating a decent team on the road is still a hill we haven't climbed. Not happy about it, but yes, that's where we are.

But I still think its too early to give up on any improvement whatsoever for the whole season.

Kellie has an experienced team, even with Massengill leaving. Maybe my expectations were too high that she would be able to beat WV who lost their best player last year.

The reason I'm as annoyed about this game is because this was IMO the most winnable game of their non-cupcake games, and I fear it will cost them dearly if they can't surprise one of the top 4 SEC teams (and I see nothing to that suggests they would pull of an upset).

 

[madtownvol]

That’s actually my point tho.. it seems when we got to the “hard” game she changed her philosophy.

That is a function of the schedule. Coaches almost always go deeper in the bench in early season mistmatches and then shorten the bench when more competitive games come up. Last season, when the LVs got to conference play, Kellie had reduced the rotation down to 7 or 8 who got the lion share of minutes.

 

[Amb3096]

Not out of highschool they weren’t. And that seems to be the appropriate measure for this page #rankings lol

If a team consistently can't get results from their highly sought after HS rankings, that's a reflection of the coaching. That's on Kellie that she has sooooo many overrated players on her team. We can blame Holly all we want, but the two best players on the team (Rennia and Rae) were coached by Holly first. Kellie hasn't done much with Jordan or Tamari.

 

[drawing dead]

But how do you justify that as a head coach who built their winning career on that philosophy. Tbh most LV fans laugh at “unranked non-talented” all the time... yet we still lose to them. Missouri State would whip this LV team

Well as many great coaches do, she could adjust. In the Missouri Valley Conference she could sub player 10 for player 5 and not have a huge drop off in talent. I don’t believe she has that luxury in the P5 conferences, especially the SEC. I think she has to build those 9-13 players into SEC players at practice and very selectively in games that are in the books. JMI

 

[37620VOL]

I feel like we only have 2 3-point shooters: Rae and Horston

Historically Davis has been our best 3pt shooter by a long shot.

 

[VolFuture2k22]

That is a function of the schedule. Coaches almost always go deeper in the bench in early season mistmatches and then shorten the bench when more competitive games come up. Last season, when the LVs got to conference play, Kellie had reduced the rotation down to 7 or 8 who got the lion share of minutes.

Yes but I’m saying that isn’t what she WANTS to do. It’s a symptom of the state

 

[VolFuture2k22]

Historically Davis has been our best 3pt shooter by a long shot.

Not tonight

 

[Volfaninfl2]

I remember the days when Tennessee would lose to a top 15 team, and the sky would be falling on the forum. Or when they wouldn't be a top 2 seed in the NCAAT. Then it was lowered to getting a double bye in the SECT or hosting the first two rounds in the NCAAT. Then it was winning one game in the NCAAT. Unfortunately, I think it's a reality for the program these days that losing to a bubble tournament team in OT has become the new program standard for success.

Why would you write such a statement? We have lived through less achievements, but I don’t think Coach Kellie or the team or we fans would consider losing the game today to be “the new program standard for success.” GO LADY VOLS!

 

[madtownvol]

If a team consistently can't get results from their highly sought after HS rankings, that's a reflection of the coaching. That's on Kellie that she has sooooo many overrated players on her team. We can blame Holly all we want, but the two best players on the team (Rennia and Rae) were coached by Holly first. Kellie hasn't done much with Jordan or Tamari.

Man the knives are out! Under Holly, Rae was the proverbial bull in the China shop who frustrated fans mightily, he MO was one good play and then three mess-ups. Everyone is praising how much better Rae is this year so maybe Kellie had a positive influence, no?

KK seems to be improved from last year. It is a little early to say where Jordan and Tamari are from last season. I will give you Davis. She came in a very polished player but I think she was going to be good under just about any coach.

 

[VolFuture2k22]

If a team consistently can't get results from their highly sought after HS rankings, that's a reflection of the coaching. That's on Kellie that she has sooooo many overrated players on her team. We can blame Holly all we want, but the two best players on the team (Rennia and Rae) were coached by Holly first. Kellie hasn't done much with Jordan or Tamari.

I wouldn’t disagree

 

[Coach Jumper]

..... right now I believe the Lady Vols biggest flaw is a bad attitude and lack of competitiveness when they do get their minutes (Most likely caused by said dilemma above).

You don't bring your best talent in off the bench after you get down 6 points,,,that puts them at two immediate disadvantages. Not starting and coming into a game that has already established an identity...We are starting 3 first year players...we are asking "why?"....don't you think the players are asking the same questions!
Put yourself in their shoes.

But how do you justify that as a head coach who built their winning career on that philosophy. Tbh most LV fans laugh at “unranked non-talented” all the time... yet we still lose to them. Missouri State would whip this LV team

The answer is in your question...The Sec is not the MVC and UT is not Mizzou state.

I backed Coach K from the gitgo,,,not because of what she did at Mizzou state alone, but bc she has played in the SEC and knows it is a whole different ball game.

I still back her. I believe she is a better coach than CHW was and the right coach for UT....But she has to admit to herself that this is the SEC, not the MVC. Once she does that and starts coaching this team like an SEC team...we will rise right to the top.

 

[37620VOL]

Man the knives are out! Under Holly, Rae was the proverbial bull in the China shop who frustrated fans mightily, he MO was one good play and then three mess-ups. Everyone is praising how much better Rae is this year so maybe Kellie had a positive influence, no?

KK seems to be improved from last year. It is a little early to say where Jordan and Tamari are from last season. I will give you Davis. She came in a very polished player but I think she was going to be good under just about any coach.

100% accurate

 

[Bballnut1952]

But that run is what got her the job and started the BEAST that is Missouri State so... also those “other” jobs were literally the start of her career so I don’t get that criticism

Beast that is Missouri State? Please......

That criticism is based on her entire career. She was 5 years at Western Carolina, 4 years at NC State and 5 years at Missouri State before her magical run in the NCAA tournament. Hardly the start of her career.

 

[cwbytruckers]

SEC/BIG 12 challenge. Lady Vols only SEC team to lose today

 

[DEEFEEZEE]

Until this team gets some athletic bigs and floor leader they will continue to be a 3rd to 4th tier program on their way to being Louisiana Tech a program that can't compete on the elite level.

 

[Amb3096]

Man the knives are out! Under Holly, Rae was the proverbial bull in the China shop who frustrated fans mightily, he MO was one good play and then three mess-ups. Everyone is praising how much better Rae is this year so maybe Kellie had a positive influence, no?

KK seems to be improved from last year. It is a little early to say where Jordan and Tamari are from last season. I will give you Davis. She came in a very polished player but I think she was going to be good under just about any coach.

My point is that if you have a team full of highly rated HS players and losing to teams with lower profile talent, the likely explanation comes down to coaching...not that one team loaded up with a bunch of diamonds in the rough and the other team had a bunch of overrated players. All this talk about which team is *really* more talented comes down, IMO, to what the coach did with the players they had.

 

[lvocd]

Another thing I’ve noticed is that it makes a huge difference how our primary scorers start the game. If they start scoring well right off they are generally good to great the rest of the game. But if they start poorly and have a bad first half, they don’t typically turn it around and have a great second half. The frustrations from the first half carry over.

 

[creekdipper]

yes, lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya.....

It's a competition. Should we give out participation trophies too?

Couldn't hurt.

You have to participate in order to compete.

"Ought and ought makes nought."
~Jethro Bodine

 

[Coach Jumper]

Couldn't hurt.

You have to participate in order to compete.

"Ought and ought makes nought."
~Jethro Bodine

I believe he was agent double-naugth naught seven

 

[37620VOL]

If you think this team was being competitive... oof. Competitors want to win, not worry about “how they looked or played” or if it will affect their draft stock. 18 post touches, no shots by the one player who got you to overtime IN overtime BIG OOF

I would agree that they were competitive and effort was where it needed to be. Note the rebounding and defensive effort.

The posts need fewer touches. Half their touches turn into turnovers. If they want the ball, rebound it. That's really the only thing they are good at.

 

[volnationnj]

I believe he was agent double-naugth naught seven

A quote from Jed Clampett:
" I don't know what I'd do without you Jethro, but I'm willing to give it a try".