Game Thread Lady Vols at West Virginia

[TJVol95]

Typical loss. Will see 7 or 8 more....

 

[Chippo]

C'mon people now,
Smile on your brother
Everybody get together
Try to love one another right now
Right now
Right nooooooooowwwww....

I like your posts creek dipper. Always
takes the heaviness out of some
of the others.

 

[lfvol]

You make a good point on how Coach Harper distributes the minutes. She has almost always had 10-12 players with double digit minutes. The problem is that except for her great NCAA tourney run before coming to Tennessee her system really doesn't create success for her teams.

Yes, and that is a reason almost no one does it. I would add that the bottom third of this roster is playing at the wrong level.

 

[VolBall09]

Post game interviews were good. Good attitude and realization of where the mistakes were made. At the end of the day it’s a loss in OT to a tough team. I expect WV to finish top 3 in the Big 12. Possibly top 2 as they really look about equal with Baylor and Texas in terms of personnel this season.

They all know we lost that game in the first half because of our defense and turnovers. Really the first quarter. If we don’t give up 11 points or whatever it was to Gondrizek in the first quarter we would have been in a much better place. We did the job we needed on the boards and limited their second chance opportunities. They still got too much in transition though. There were times we just didn’t stop the basketball and let them bring it up full steam ahead resulting in either an AND 1 or free throws. We gave up several open 3s in transition sprinting to the paint and not getting matched up. Glad to see them getting back, but you’ve also got to get matched up and find shooters in transition. The 3s from Smith in particular killed us, she had no ability to score in the halfcourt whatsoever but had 16 points due to poor perimeter defense in the secondary break. None of the 3s she made were heavily contested. No way a 5’5” player should get 9 looks from 3 against us.

IMO Key should start the game for defensive reasons. Keyen played really well, but she doesn’t have the same size in there. With Key in the middle it completely changes the opposing teams offense. The dribble drive is officially closed. I think to get us off on the right foot defensively she needs to be in the ballgame. If it were me I would move Suarez to the bench until she cleans up the turnovers. Start Green at the 4 and Key at 5. Green can hit the long jumper as we saw last night. She just needs to pull the trigger. She has the best mid-range shot of all our posts. Key sets the tone with her shot blocking and aggressive help side D.

I don’t think we’ll see this that frequently but about 10 of our turnovers last night were travels. Looking back at them a lot of them were just happy feet on open buckets. Take those away and we put 10-15 more point on the board. We made several baskets that were waived off due to travels.

Thought the officiating was very poor but we actually did a good job not allowing that to bother us much. Say what you want about complaining about officiating but when there is a 15 shot disparity in free throws there is an officiating problem. We got called for blocking fouls on the baseline about 15 times. They committed the same foul over and over with no whistle. The last play where Rennia stepped out of bounds she was fouled no less than 4 times by Nablak slamming her lower body into Rennia as she attacked the basket. That’s a play where officiating decided the outcome of a game and I don’t think that should ever happen. If you’ve called it all night, you have to call it the last :10 of the game as well.

 

[LadyVols_WBK]

Post game interviews were good. Good attitude and realization of where the mistakes were made. At the end of the day it’s a loss in OT to a tough team. I expect WV to finish top 3 in the Big 12. Possibly top 2 as they really look about equal with Baylor and Texas in terms of personnel this season.

They all know we lost that game in the first half because of our defense and turnovers. Really the first quarter. If we don’t give up 11 points or whatever it was to Gondrizek in the first quarter we would have been in a much better place. We did the job we needed on the on the boards and limited their second chance opportunities. They still got too much in transition though. There were times we just didn’t stop the basketball and let them bring it up full steam ahead resulting in either an AND 1 or free throws. We gave up several open 3s in transition sprinting to the paint and not getting matched up. Glad to see them getting back, but you’ve also got to get matched up and find shooters in transition. The 3s from Smith in particular killed us, she had no ability to score in the halfcourt whatsoever but had 16 points due to poor perimeter defense in the secondary break. None of the 3s she made were heavily contested. No way a 5’5” player should get 9 looks from 3 against us.

IMO Key should start the game for defensive reasons. Keyen played really well, but she doesn’t have the same size in there. With Key in the middle it completely changes the opposing teams offense. The dribble drive is officially closed. I think to get us off on the right foot defensively she needs to be in the ballgame. If it were me I would move Suarez to the bench until she cleans up the turnovers. Start Green at the 4 and Key at 5. Green can hit the long jumper as we saw last night. She just needs to pull the trigger. She has the best mid-range shot of all our posts. Key sets the tone with her shot blocking and aggressive help side D.

I don’t think we’ll see this that frequently but about 10 of our turnovers last night were travels. Looking back at them a lot of them were just happy feet on open buckets. Take those away and we put 10-15 more point on the board. We made several baskets that were waived off due to travels.

Thought the officiating was very poor but we actually did a good job not allowing that to bother us much. Say what you want about complaining about officiating but when there is a 15 shot disparity in free throws there is an officiating problem. We got called for blocking fouls on the baseline about 15 times. They committed the same foul over and over with no whistle. The last play where Rennia stepped out of bounds she was fouled no less than 4 times by Nablak slamming her lower body into Rennia as she attacked the basket. That’s a play where officiating decided the outcome of a game and I don’t think that should ever happen. If you’ve called it all night, you have to call it the last :10 of the game as well.

all of THIS.....on point

 

[Bballnut1952]

We got called for blocking fouls on the baseline about 15 times. They committed the same foul over and over with no whistle. The last play where Rennia stepped out of bounds she was fouled no less than 4 times by Nablak slamming her lower body into Rennia as she attacked the basket. That’s a play where officiating decided the outcome of a game and I don’t think that should ever happen. If you’ve called it all night, you have to call it the last :10 of the game as well.

The hyperbole doesn't help. 15 times? I looked at the play by play and offensive foul calls went against Horston once and Davis once. And there was one against WV.

And I watched the replay of that baseline drive by Davis a few times. Maybe there could have been a foul called. Maybe. But it certainly wasn't obvious and 4 times is over the top as well as using the word "slaming".

If the ref called it a foul, isn't that the ref deciding the outcome of the game as well? I guess as long as it's the team you root for it's ok?

 

[VolBall09]

The hyperbole doesn't help. 15 times? I looked at the play by play and offensive foul calls went against Horston once and Davis once. And there was one against WV.

And I watched the replay of that baseline drive by Davis a few times. Maybe there could have been a foul called. Maybe. But it certainly wasn't obvious and 4 times is over the top as well as using the word "slaming".

If the ref called it a foul, isn't that the ref deciding the outcome of the game as well? I guess as long as it's the team you root for it's ok?

Carry on with your negativity. You only succeed in proving my point. I offered plenty of cristicism and a few consolations in that post. It’s about the big picture, which you’re unable to see through your myopic view on the world.

 

[PG1]

Kellie has an experienced team, even with Massengill leaving. Maybe my expectations were too high that she would be able to beat WV who lost their best player last year.

The reason I'm as annoyed about this game is because this was IMO the most winnable game of their non-cupcake games, and I fear it will cost them dearly if they can't surprise one of the top 4 SEC teams (and I see nothing to that suggests they would pull of an upset).

Most of our fans want to believe we are still young and very inexperienced!

 

[PG1]

Yes, and that is a reason almost no one does it. I would add that the bottom third of this roster is playing at the wrong level.

I would say half the roster is playing at the wrong level.

 

[LadyVols_WBK]

 

[FrozenLVFan]

I saw some good things in this game...
--Our ball movement on offense is the best it's been in years.
--Rae Burrell.
--Horston is playing better with each game, particularly on defense.
--Green played really tough and ended up with 12 points and 9 boards.
--Rebounding.

Some bad things...
--Getting off to a bad start when we should have come out with guns blazing.
--20 TO's.
--Horston is not playing any better on offense as a PG. We need to give up this fantasy and work with Walker and Salary at PG, and let Horston play the 2-3.
--Too much passing right under the basket, leading to tie-ups and TO's. Either shoot the ball or pass it back out.
--Failing repeatedly to get back on defense, leading to 3-on-1 or 4-on-1 opportunities for WV.

Some ugly things...
--A star player who is horrifically inconsistent, and for all the griping here about her offensive production, her defensive play is worse.
--2 of our 3 posts STILL can't catch the ball reliably or finish point-blank shots. Having said that, KK was more productive in her minutes than Davis was. Our post coaching is clearly not adequate.
--2 of 19 from behind the arc. Yikes, get in the gym and put up some shots. 3-pt shooting for this year is only 21.8%.
--Mental mistakes are still killing us. No excuse for turning the ball over while inbounding, stepping on the baseline in a critical moment, or telegraphing passes across the key...all jr high school moves.

 

[Amb3096]

Some ugly things...
--A star player who is horrifically inconsistent, and for all the griping here about her offensive production, her defensive play is worse.
--2 of our 3 posts STILL can't catch the ball reliably or finish point-blank shots. Having said that, KK was more productive in her minutes than Davis was. Our post coaching is clearly not adequate.

People are being too hard on Rennia. Yes, she had a bad game, but she has been really by the far the most consistent player for Tennessee the last few years. And Tennessee has enough talent on their team that they should be able to make up for the odd off-game from Rennia against a team like WV. They probably would have won if she had her typical game, but it's hard to put the blame on her when others had the chance to step up, but didn't.

 

[Volfan2012]

One thing I noticed is how much better Green plays with a big at the five. She is not a five herself and when she is in there with Marta her game totally suffers. I think when Coach Harper decides to play Key and KK as a five rotation with Green and Marta rotating at the four we will see a lot better result both offensively and defensively on the inside.

 

[Volfan2012]

People are being too hard on Rennia. Yes, she had a bad game, but she has been really by the far the most consistent player for Tennessee the last few years. And Tennessee has enough talent on their team that they should be able to make up for the odd off-game from Rennia against a team like WV. They probably would have won if she had her typical game, but it's hard to put the blame on her when others had the chance to step up, but didn't.

No way you can say Rennia has been an inconsistent player in her career at Tennessee. She has been one of the most consistent players in most of the games that she has played. This was the worst game of her career you will not see this happen very often. I doubt she plays another game this season like this one.

 

[krichunaka]

If my son (or perhaps my 5-year-old grandson) had been here to sign me up, then, well I coulda watched live. This twenty-first century is getting the best (and worst) of me.

I truly wish we could drop the sub bashing. We all know by now that this one and that one “should just pack her bags and leave town.” Gosh, I hope none of them do. Because then, some of you would have to find something else to criticize, and I surely don’t want any of you to leave. So, if they’re happy, I’m happy.

And, with respect to the coaching criticism, oh, and the “tremendously talented roster” that Coach Kellie “inherited” ...Really? If they’re still learning how to throw and catch; if they’re still (though much less often) driving head-first into double, or triple coverage ...if they’re traveling when wide open (again, I haven’t watched yet), etc., that’s some special kind of inheritance. Coach kellie’s coaching ability will manifest itself - for good or bad - with the CONSISTENT improvement in these aspects. If they develop better habits, we’ll win a lot of games.

The starting lineup might need tweaking so we can, well, “start” better. Your theory actually makes sense, CoachJumper. But, it’s worth mentioning that one of our Key players fouled out with the time she got to play. But, you’re point is well-taken.

Those of you who coach(ed) ...do you agree ______? Disagree _____?, that the starters/regular players (the ones with the most playing time), are the ones who have almost always been the primary reason(s) for these losses? When our players do the simple things, when they perform the most rudimentary basketball tasks with their allotted minutes, we can compete with the good (not necessarily great) teams.

We have an All-American who couldn’t throw it in the ocean yesterday. I hope she played an otherwise all-around good game. Did she?
Jordan Horston appears to be gaining composure. Rae is off to a good start. Our transfers are about what most expected.

Yesterday was game three of ...how many will we get to play? If we clean things up - and STAY HEALTHY - we might have a pretty good season.

Cheers!

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Carry on with your negativity. You only succeed in proving my point. I offered plenty of cristicism and a few consolations in that post. It’s about the big picture, which you’re unable to see through your myopic view on the world.

bnut (the rutgers troll), makes no sense. You are talking about blocking fouls. He changed the narrative to offensive fouls. Offensive fouls are not the same as blocking fouls, of which you wrote, which were called against our posts and probably others. In fact, they’re opposite.

 

[Bballnut1952]

bnut (the rutgers troll), makes no sense. You are talking about blocking fouls. He changed the narrative to offensive fouls. Offensive fouls are not the same as blocking fouls, of which you wrote, which were called against our posts and probably others. In fact, they’re opposite.

Thanks for the correction. You are right. I looked at the wrong kind of fouls.

 

[Rickster]

[/QUOTE]="Volfaninfl2, post: 19053285, member: 76124"] bnut (the rutgers troll), makes no sense. You are talking about blocking fouls. He changed the narrative to offensive fouls. Offensive fouls are not the same as blocking fouls, of which you wrote, which were called against our posts and probably others. In fact, they’re opposite.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't fit his agenda.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

Thanks for the correction. You are right. I looked at the wrong kind of fouls.

Shocked

 

[GameTime]

Going baseline at that critical moment of the game was a big mistake...The out of bounds line was the equivalent to an extra player for WV...Their defense helped "guide" Davis to the sideline marker...It was a good play by them, and not so smart of our gals getting in that poor position....

On to the next game and victory....

 

[djtee]

Post game interviews were good. Good attitude and realization of where the mistakes were made. At the end of the day it’s a loss in OT to a tough team. I expect WV to finish top 3 in the Big 12. Possibly top 2 as they really look about equal with Baylor and Texas in terms of personnel this season.

They all know we lost that game in the first half because of our defense and turnovers. Really the first quarter. If we don’t give up 11 points or whatever it was to Gondrizek in the first quarter we would have been in a much better place. We did the job we needed on the boards and limited their second chance opportunities. They still got too much in transition though. There were times we just didn’t stop the basketball and let them bring it up full steam ahead resulting in either an AND 1 or free throws. We gave up several open 3s in transition sprinting to the paint and not getting matched up. Glad to see them getting back, but you’ve also got to get matched up and find shooters in transition. The 3s from Smith in particular killed us, she had no ability to score in the halfcourt whatsoever but had 16 points due to poor perimeter defense in the secondary break. None of the 3s she made were heavily contested. No way a 5’5” player should get 9 looks from 3 against us.

IMO Key should start the game for defensive reasons. Keyen played really well, but she doesn’t have the same size in there. With Key in the middle it completely changes the opposing teams offense. The dribble drive is officially closed. I think to get us off on the right foot defensively she needs to be in the ballgame. If it were me I would move Suarez to the bench until she cleans up the turnovers. Start Green at the 4 and Key at 5. Green can hit the long jumper as we saw last night. She just needs to pull the trigger. She has the best mid-range shot of all our posts. Key sets the tone with her shot blocking and aggressive help side D.

I don’t think we’ll see this that frequently but about 10 of our turnovers last night were travels. Looking back at them a lot of them were just happy feet on open buckets. Take those away and we put 10-15 more point on the board. We made several baskets that were waived off due to travels.

Thought the officiating was very poor but we actually did a good job not allowing that to bother us much. Say what you want about complaining about officiating but when there is a 15 shot disparity in free throws there is an officiating problem. We got called for blocking fouls on the baseline about 15 times. They committed the same foul over and over with no whistle. The last play where Rennia stepped out of bounds she was fouled no less than 4 times by Nablak slamming her lower body into Rennia as she attacked the basket. That’s a play where officiating decided the outcome of a game and I don’t think that should ever happen. If you’ve called it all night, you have to call it the last :10 of the game as well.

i agree with you on Key yes she is lacking the offensive skills at this time due to covid 19. Was not able to work out with John or CP but now that john has been cleared i think you will see Key get better on the offensive end. But as i said before without 6-6-6-7 her mom said 6-7 Key defense in the middle we would have lost by more i think. Then again we should have won that game against WV. I will bet the house KJH starts the same lineup against Texas.

 

[Rickster]

If we thought WVU home cooked officiating was bad, wait till we get to Texas. We've had some doozies over there.

 

[djtee]

One thing I noticed is how much better Green plays with a big at the five. She is not a five herself and when she is in there with Marta her game totally suffers. I think when Coach Harper decides to play Key and KK as a five rotation with Green and Marta rotating at the four we will see a lot better result both offensively and defensively on the inside.

I hear you but the problem is with KK or Key at the five we still double down to help why ? i`m not sure and we give up a 3 point basket.

 

[VolBall09]

bnut (the rutgers troll), makes no sense. You are talking about blocking fouls. He changed the narrative to offensive fouls. Offensive fouls are not the same as blocking fouls, of which you wrote, which were called against our posts and probably others. In fact, they’re opposite.

Lol thanks. I’ve already told him I won’t talk basketball with him because he just wants to pick a fight. I don’t generally read his posts when he responds to me as it’s not worth the time. I’m happy to argue back and forth with someone reasonable but if you’re a contrarian just for the sake of it I have no patience for you.

 

[VolFuture2k22]

I would say half the roster is playing at the wrong level.

Then so is WVU roster smh... I don’t know why LV fans always fall back to this excuse