Game Thread Lady Vols at West Virginia

[Memvol44]

All this game proved to me is that the players aren’t fully bought in to Kellie’s system... and neither are the LV fans. Kellie likes playing 10-12 players and have everyone contribute. It’s apparent to me that most fans here don’t believe in a system like that.

I think Kellie is having a coaching dilemma with the current team. On one hand she wants to implement her system and have everyone contribute, starter or not, and on the other hand she realizes the girls she currently has weren’t recruited for a system like that.

Whichever she chooses though, the players MUST BUY IN because right now I believe the Lady Vols biggest flaw is a bad attitude and lack of competitiveness when they do get their minutes (Most likely caused by said dilemma above).

Example of bad attitude???

 

[Memvol44]

Typical loss. Will see 7 or 8 more....

Then don't watch...

 

[Amb3096]

I agree,that's why you start her,get that out of the way.Her playing the first 4-5 minutes would not have hurt this team..

4-5 minutes in a close game that Tennessee would eventually lose in OT would have completely hurt this team. You pity-play Emily for half of the 1st quarter, and it's likely that WVU doesn't even need OT to win this game.

If Emily wants meaningful playing time, she needs to beat out her competition. If not, she shouldn't expect to be handed minutes just because...especially in a game against a reasonably tough opponent.

 

[Amb3096]

Walker has already played at this level!

No she hasn't. Walker played for Western Michigan in the MAC...not even close to the SEC or any other P5. Games like WVU and Texas will show whether she can play at a higher skill level than a mid-major before SEC season starts.

 

[mcannon1]

All that's true except when Texas plays us. Someone will have a career game and their supporting cast will play strong. At least that seems to be what happens to us in games like this.

Sounds like our defense is not up to par.

 

[Coach Jumper]

4-5 minutes in a close game that Tennessee would eventually lose in OT would have completely hurt this team. You pity-play Emily for half of the 1st quarter, and it's likely that WVU doesn't even need OT to win this game.

If Emily wants meaningful playing time, she needs to beat out her competition. If not, she shouldn't expect to be handed minutes just because...especially in a game against a reasonably tough opponent.

I disagree about your pity-play minutes...I don't believe it would have affected the outcome except maybe in a positive manor as Emily is more of an inside presence than Keyen. Emily has 5 rebs in 8 mins and scores every 4 minutes...Keyen has 11 rebounds in 68 minutes and scores every 3 minutes.

exactly right Amb on the sedond part
She has to beat out her competition!
But she also has to have a chance to do so

Also, It starts in practices
it is there that you have the most opportunity to impress coaches

 

[Bballnut1952]

No she hasn't. Walker played for Central Michigan in the MAC...not even close to the SEC or any other P5. Games like WVU and Texas will show whether she can play at a higher skill level than a mid-major before SEC season starts.

Wrong direction....lol. She played for Western Michigan.

And while she didn't play AT that level, they did open the 2019 season against Michigan. She did score 14 points, but it was not a good game in her 32 minutes. She was 5-21 from the field and 1-6 on threes. And she had ZERO assists and three turnovers.

She has something to prove at this level. Time will tell.

 

[Volfan2012]

Jordan Walker has been a competent player in the first three games 8 of 17 from the field 9 assist 6 turnovers and 4 steals. That is in 21 minutes a game. I like her starting with Horston coming in about the five minute mark of the first quarter, Overall the 21 minutes she is playing is what I expect to happen for the entire season. Horston probably pushes thirty as we move on into the season also playing some two guard on occasion.
We'll have to hope and I do believe that Rennia will find her game as right now she is having the worst start of any season here. 37 percent from the field overall and 11 turnovers in three games. 11 percent form the three. Have to hope starting Thursday that is all in the past. Key only playing 15 minutes a game had 9 blocks and is 6 of 7 from the field. She is going 5 points and 5 rebounds in that 15 minutes. She has been effective when she has been in there we really haven't been using the inside game much as we probably should. Those 19 threes we took against W Va. probably should've been 10 to 12 with a few more touches in the post. If your going to shoot 19 threes you have to make at least six and in three games we haven't proven we can shoot the three 21 percent as a team. This is shocking to me as most of the main players are over 30 percent shooters from the three in their careers.

 

[Amb3096]

Wrong direction....lol. She played for Western Michigan.

And while she didn't play AT that level, they did open the 2019 season against Michigan. She did score 14 points, but it was not a good game in her 32 minutes. She was 5-21 from the field and 1-6 on threes. And she had ZERO assists and three turnovers.

She has something to prove at this level. Time will tell.

I was kind of close...but same conference nonetheless.

That's been my concern with Walker. She looked good in the first game and was invisible the last two games. WVU has pretty good guard play, and she'll be seeing alot more of that in the SEC. It's hard to tell from these early games how much of a contributor she will be until the level of competition goes up.

 

[Bballnut1952]

I was kind of close...but same conference nonetheless.

That's been my concern with Walker. She looked good in the first game and was invisible the last two games. WVU has pretty good guard play, and she'll be seeing alot more of that in the SEC. It's hard to tell from these early games how much of a contributor she will be until the level of competition goes up.

They did play Central Michigan twice...lol. Close enough.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Jordan Walker has been a competent player in the first three games 8 of 17 from the field 9 assist 6 turnovers and 4 steals. That is in 21 minutes a game. I like her starting with Horston coming in about the five minute mark of the first quarter, Overall the 21 minutes she is playing is what I expect to happen for the entire season. Horston probably pushes thirty as we move on into the season also playing some two guard on occasion.
We'll have to hope and I do believe that Rennia will find her game as right now she is having the worst start of any season here. 37 percent from the field overall and 11 turnovers in three games. 11 percent form the three. Have to hope starting Thursday that is all in the past. Key only playing 15 minutes a game had 9 blocks and is 6 of 7 from the field. She is going 5 points and 5 rebounds in that 15 minutes. She has been effective when she has been in there we really haven't been using the inside game much as we probably should. Those 19 threes we took against W Va. probably should've been 10 to 12 with a few more touches in the post. If your going to shoot 19 threes you have to make at least six and in three games we haven't proven we can shoot the three 21 percent as a team. This is shocking to me as most of the main players are over 30 percent shooters from the three in their careers.

would you take Jordan Walker in a one-on-one matchup against Jordan Horston?

 

[Bballnut1952]

Jordan Walker has been a competent player in the first three games 8 of 17 from the field 9 assist 6 turnovers and 4 steals. That is in 21 minutes a game. I like her starting with Horston coming in about the five minute mark of the first quarter, Overall the 21 minutes she is playing is what I expect to happen for the entire season. Horston probably pushes thirty as we move on into the season also playing some two guard on occasion.
We'll have to hope and I do believe that Rennia will find her game as right now she is having the worst start of any season here. 37 percent from the field overall and 11 turnovers in three games. 11 percent form the three. Have to hope starting Thursday that is all in the past. Key only playing 15 minutes a game had 9 blocks and is 6 of 7 from the field. She is going 5 points and 5 rebounds in that 15 minutes. She has been effective when she has been in there we really haven't been using the inside game much as we probably should. Those 19 threes we took against W Va. probably should've been 10 to 12 with a few more touches in the post. If your going to shoot 19 threes you have to make at least six and in three games we haven't proven we can shoot the three 21 percent as a team. This is shocking to me as most of the main players are over 30 percent shooters from the three in their careers.

Hoping you can take this as just some honest debate.

As Amb said in another post, Walker's good stats were from her first game. Her scoring went from 13 points to zero points to 4 points in her three games. She was 6-10 in the first game and then 0-2 from the field both threes and 2-5 in the last game, 0-2 on threes. Her assists have gone down each game as well, 4,3,2. And finally her turnovers went from 1 to 1 to 4. Taking her stats in just totality doesn't show the entire picture.

That being said, she did show some ability and with more time she could adjust to this level and be a solid contributor.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Hoping you can take this as just some honest debate.

As Amb said in another post, Walker's good stats were from her first game. Her scoring went from 13 points to zero points to 4 points in her three games. She was 6-10 in the first game and then 0-2 from the field both threes and 2-5 in the last game, 0-2 on threes. Her assists have gone down each game as well, 4,3,2. And finally her turnovers went from 1 to 1 to 4. Taking her stats in just totality doesn't show the entire picture.

That being said, she did show some ability and with more time she could adjust to this level and be a solid contributor.

I've got nothing against JW,,,proud to have her,,,as a backup for Jordan Horston.
There is no good reason for JH and TK to be sitting the pine on startups.
NO GOOD REASON

 

[Memvol44]

No she hasn't. Walker played for Western Michigan in the MAC...not even close to the SEC or any other P5. Games like WVU and Texas will show whether she can play at a higher skill level than a mid-major before SEC season starts.

Are you saying that team never played a big school????

 

[Memvol44]

4-5 minutes in a close game that Tennessee would eventually lose in OT would have completely hurt this team. You pity-play Emily for half of the 1st quarter, and it's likely that WVU doesn't even need OT to win this game.

If Emily wants meaningful playing time, she needs to beat out her competition. If not, she shouldn't expect to be handed minutes just because...especially in a game against a reasonably tough opponent.

We shall agree to disagree...

 

[PG1]

It's about team chemistry, sharpen up on not making mistakes!! Not nessasary who your playing..practice makes perfect..

So how did the cupcake game before WVA create team chemistry that helped in our big W over WVA? Oh wait it did nothing.

 

[PG1]

4-5 minutes in a close game that Tennessee would eventually lose in OT would have completely hurt this team. You pity-play Emily for half of the 1st quarter, and it's likely that WVU doesn't even need OT to win this game.

If Emily wants meaningful playing time, she needs to beat out her competition. If not, she shouldn't expect to be handed minutes just because...especially in a game against a reasonably tough opponent.

If Emily wants playing time she needs to transfer to Tn Tech where she needs to be.

 

[glv98]

would you take Jordan Walker in a one-on-one matchup against Jordan Horston?

Well that would be odd. Aren't they on the same team? Although there was that horrible time at Vandy when Rennia did actually appear to be defending her own player whilst the 'Dores did a breakaway. So much to choose from, but that viral video may have been the nadir of the Holly years.

Yes, the longer, apparently quicker JH would probably take the one on one matchup (unless she turned the ball over, sorry I had to say it!). So what? To me it shows JH belongs at the off guard position where her scoring spirit is more free to create. I don't like PG as a one on one position, got burned out on it through the last decade of bull through the lane and through up a prayer perimeter players we've had. Much rather have a steady eddy PG who initiates movement and flow. Bonus points if they can nail the occasional timely 3.

I've never understood the need to shoehorn JH in as PG. IMO JH is a creator and scorer, not a decider and distributor. As madtown said, probably that HS player so talented she was PG by default in an offense called get the ball to Jordan and get out of the way. Not working on the regular now. I want JH on the court big minutes, her defense and rebounding alone have been very valuable, but not as primary ball handler.

So best case scenario to me is Walker and Jordan, not against each other but beside ea other at 1 and 2. Of course that would require Walker to be at least adequate at steady eddy PG.

 

[glv98]

If Emily wants playing time she needs to transfer to Tn Tech where she needs to be.

We don't even know she wanted to play. I've known players in that situation to decline the courtesy appearance bc its kind of embarrassing like you're the damn team mascot or something. Everyone on the bench laughing and overclapping. She's not a senior and WVa ain't exactly that far away, reasonable to think Em's homefolks will have another crack at watching her play. Hell she's already played more this season than all of last year I think. If she was ok w not getting mop up mins last yr I'm sure she's accepted her role.

But yes, if she'd like extended PT she probably should look elsewhere.

 

[Amb3096]

Are you saying that team never played a big school????

She has. 3 games against P5 schools: Iowa, Rutgers and Michigan. Michigan was the only ranked team, and was somewhere around 20.

5 pts vs Iowa (1-8 from the floor, 1-6 from 3)
4 pts vs. RU (2-9 from the floor, 0-5 from 3)
14 pts vs Michigan (5-21 from the floor, 1-8 from 3)

This comes out to 7.6 ppg shooting 21% from the floor (8-38) and 11% from 3 (2-19). That's compared to her season average last year of 16 ppg, 38.5% from the floor and 31.7% from deep.

Jordan did not show she can play against high level competition at WMU, and that competition will pale in comparison to what she plays against in the SEC (and (OOC against UConn). That's why I'm not sold on her until she shows that she can be a factor against better teams.

 

[glv98]

She has. 3 games against P5 schools: Iowa, Rutgers and Michigan. Michigan was the only ranked team, and was somewhere around 20.

5 pts vs Iowa (1-8 from the floor, 1-6 from 3)
4 pts vs. RU (2-9 from the floor, 0-5 from 3)
14 pts vs Michigan (5-21 from the floor, 1-8 from 3)

This comes out to 7.6 ppg shooting 21% from the floor (8-38) and 11% from 3 (2-19). That's compared to her season average last year of 16 ppg, 38.5% from the floor and 31.7% from deep.

Jordan did not show she can play against high level competition at WMU, and that competition will pale in comparison to what she plays against in the SEC (and (OOC against UConn). That's why I'm not sold on her until she shows that she can be a factor against better teams.

I don't need Walker to score, tho an occasional 3 would be nice. This team has scorers for a change. Btw Davis, Horston, and Rae someone is going to score. I want her to be the experienced director and distributor plus decent defender we've had fever dreams about for years. Unknown if she can do it against decent teams, I missed the first few mins of the game Sun when she was apparently not very good. Next Sunday will tell alot, let it be dear Lord, let it be.

 

[Volfan2012]

would you take Jordan Walker in a one-on-one matchup against Jordan Horston?

Of course not but that doesn't mean she shouldn't start the game because actually a sixth man coming off the bench can be a more powerful force than a starter if they bring the energy after watching a few minutes. If Jordan Horston starts still would have to come off the bench with Walker and JMO I think the other way around is better.

 

[Amb3096]

I don't need Walker to score, tho an occasional 3 would be nice. This team has scorers for a change. Btw Davis, Horston, and Rae someone is going to score. I want her to be the experienced director and distributor plus decent defender we've had fever dreams about for years. Unknown if she can do it against decent teams, I missed the first few mins of the game Sun when she was apparently not very good. Next Sunday will tell alot, let it be dear Lord, let it be.

She didn't play PG at her last school, she was off the ball. Walker was a high volume shooter like Simmons was. So she would be learning a new position while adjusting to a much higher level of competition. She hasn't played PG since HS, so it's not a given that she will be able to pick up the nuances of playing PG against tougher competition. One would think that Jordan Horston would be a better option here, since she's overall a more skilled player. We'll see what happens once the SEC play starts and she's going head to head against some elite PGs.

 

[Volfan2012]

Hoping you can take this as just some honest debate.

As Amb said in another post, Walker's good stats were from her first game. Her scoring went from 13 points to zero points to 4 points in her three games. She was 6-10 in the first game and then 0-2 from the field both threes and 2-5 in the last game, 0-2 on threes. Her assists have gone down each game as well, 4,3,2. And finally her turnovers went from 1 to 1 to 4. Taking her stats in just totality doesn't show the entire picture.

That being said, she did show some ability and with more time she could adjust to this level and be a solid contributor.

If were going to go by good or bad games will need a lot more information than three games. I agree we need to see what she does in several more games not taking the good and the bad of the first three. You still got to take the overall of the first three which would in effect say she has played a competent role. I'm not saying she has arrived at this level also not saying she hasn't more games will give us more information. The same for other players as everyone was raving about Marta after game one then came games two and three. Green not that much in games one and two then she showed some real effective play in game three. Come back at about the ten game mark then we can revisit Walker and other players as well. I think all three of these players will have their ups and downs this season. I do think all three have enough talent to be competent players at this level only time will tell.

 

[glv98]

She didn't play PG at her last school, she was off the ball. Walker was a high volume shooter like Simmons was. So she would be learning a new position while adjusting to a much higher level of competition. She hasn't played PG since HS, so it's not a given that she will be able to pick up the nuances of playing PG against tougher competition. One would think that Jordan Horston would be a better option here, since she's overall a more skilled player. We'll see what happens once the SEC play starts and she's going head to head against some elite PGs.

Oh God you know to punch where it hurts. Simmons, a fine kid I'm sure but one of my least fave players of all time. Just is.

So far, JH skills do not include the one most basic to successful PG play. I totally see an argument that she is most likely to develop those skills by just giving her the position and letting her grow into it. That could totally happen, but IMO would mean the continuation of a high-turnover, one on one oriented offense. Sometimes, against some teams JH Burrell and Davis would be able to outscore their turnovers but not on the regular.

Rae has cut down t.o.s somewhat this yr, but I still feel like she's one click away fm a five t.o. game. Davis will always be a high turnover player, Then there's the issue of the woeful hands of our posts. This is not the team with which JH needs to learn a flowy, error free offense IMO.

All to say, you negative nabob, quit pissing on my Walker parade! I need this! I need her to be the magic PG potion. Then slide ole JH to her natural position, 2 guard and let her earn the first of those A-As we've been hearing about.