Game thread: Ut vs. Lip

#176
#176
ivyleague said:
The coach is part of the team. If you don't support the coach, you don't support the team. And both the team and Holly deserve better fans than you.
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The coach is paid to coach. She isn't doing it because of altruism. I support the players. I hope they win. Just wish they had a better coach.
 
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#177
#177
Why do you think Holly passed up all those head coaching jobs all those years? She knew what her limitations were. Her only chance to ever be Tennessee's head coach would be to wait out Pat retiring. And, it worked out for her. Bad for the team.
 
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#178
#178
Sandvol said:
T he coach is paid to coach. She isn't doing it because of altruism.
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I'm paid for my job, as well, but I don't do it solely for monetary gain. Holly is well paid, but I doubt the money is the only thing she cares about. I have a feeling this program means more to her than any amount of money.

Sandvol said:
I support the players. I hope they win. Just wish they had a better coach.
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I wish the NegaVols would grow up and be supportive of the entire team instead of behaving like spoiled whiners.
 
#179
#179
Sandvol said:
Why do you think Holly passed up all those head coaching jobs all those years? She knew what her limitations were. Her only chance to ever be Tennessee's head coach would be to wait out Pat retiring. And, it worked out for her. Bad for the team.
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You know this for a fact? Perhaps Holly's ties to Knoxville were too strong for her to want to move. You assume it's because she was limited, either in opportunity or ability. That's not necessarily the case, though for someone who chooses to think the worst, I guess it's the best you could come up with. I've had multiple opportunities to move over the years, and to double my salary in the process. I choose live where I do because I love my career, I work exceptionally well with my colleagues, and, most of all, I love living close to my family and being able to see them whenever I want. This is my home. I choose to live in a place many with my background and credentials would never choose -- not because I have no ability to be successful elsewhere, but because I have no desire to. I'm happy where I am. Perhaps Holly has always felt that way about Knoxville and UT.
 
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#180
#180
Sandvol said:
It is going to keep getting tougher for you Holly apologists as the season progresses. It will be funny to watch.
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Another weak argument. There are numerous mediocre coaches who would have a similar record to Holly with the talent she inherited. A great coach could have made a Final Four run.

Again she performed below her seeding both seasons. She won a conference that hasn't had a great team in several years. Show me specific instances where she has held her own against a really good coach.

**crickets***
 
#181
#181
Darth_Vol said:
Another weak argument. There are numerous mediocre coaches who would have a similar record to Holly with the talent she inherited. A great coach could have made a Final Four run.

Again she performed below her seeding both seasons. She won a conference that hasn't had a great team in several years. Show me specific instances where she has held her own against a really good coach.

**crickets***
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Gary Blair. Twice last year.
 
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#182
#182
Darth_Vol said:
Another weak argument. There are numerous mediocre coaches who would have a similar record to Holly with the talent she inherited. A great coach could have made a Final Four run.

Again she performed below her seeding both seasons. She won a conference that hasn't had a great team in several years. Show me specific instances where she has held her own against a really good coach.

**crickets***
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Well, you people tend to move the goalposts on what you consider a "really good coach," so . . . Holly's teams haven't beaten Notre Dame or Stanford, nor did they beat Baylor while Griner was there. They lost to Louisville and Maryland in high pressure games in which the coaching staff did not perform well and neither did the players. In her short time as the head coach, she has coached quite well against Gary Blair, Dawn Staley, Matthew Mitchell, Nikki Caldwell . . . three of whom (Mitchell, Caldwell, and Staley) I know certain people on this board have consistently touted as a better fit at UT than Warlick.
 
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#183
#183
ivyleague said:
No, it isn't "coached poorly." You, however, are a piss poor excuse for a fan and, in my opinion, a piss poor excuse for a human being, as well. And if the avatar under your moniker is actually you, well, you look ridiculous, so pardon me if I don't take anything you say seriously.
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Perusing through your usual tripe in this thread, I came across this gem from page 5. For someone who pulls out the "true fan" card to Tennessee people on a regular basis, the fact that you didn't know the avatar is Bruce Pearl is priceless. Perhaps you should be less arrogant and caustic in your repeated attempts to tell everyone how stupid they are and who to support when you merely adopted the team as opposed to people who are actually alumni, fans of all Tennessee sports and, generally, not drive by supporters of UT.

Or not. Hell, I'm looking forward to your next over the top comment pulled out of thin air about how terrible people are as human beings based upon practically no knowledge of them or another story about how smart you and your school are. Should be a hoot.
 
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#184
#184
Unimane said:
Perusing through your usual tripe in this thread, I came across this gem from page 5. For someone who pulls out the "true fan" card to Tennessee people on a regular basis, the fact that you didn't know the avatar is Bruce Pearl is priceless. Perhaps you should be less arrogant and caustic in your repeated attempts to tell everyone how stupid they are and who to support when you merely adopted the team as opposed to people who are actually alumni, fans of all Tennessee sports and, generally, not drive by supporters of UT.

Or not. Hell, I'm looking forward to your next over the top comment pulled out of thin air about how terrible people are as human beings based upon practically no knowledge of them or another story about how smart you and your school are. Should be a hoot.
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*shrug* I could take or leave the men's programs at UT, to be honest. That doesn't make me any less of a fan of the Lady Vols basketball program. I have been a fan of the Lady Vols basketball program and have been attending Lady Vols basketball games since I was a preteen, and have spent a sizable amount of money as such. I'm as much a fan as anyone out there, alumni or not. Beyond that, a huge portion (probably most) of my disposable income is spent in the state of Tennessee, due to the fact that I live incredibly close. So don't pull the "drive by fan" card on me. If I had to guess, half the people on this board are not UT alums.
 
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#185
#185
Amb3096 said:
Gary Blair. Twice last year.
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Most point to South Carolina as Holly's "signature" win. In either case, see the disclaimer about the overall weakness of the SEC during Holly's tenure. The team Staley has put together this year is the first SEC roster I would seriously consider swapping with Tennessee from a talent standpoint.
 
#186
#186
Unimane said:
For someone who pulls out the "true fan" card to Tennessee people on a regular basis, the fact that you didn't know the avatar is Bruce Pearl is priceless.
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Seriously??? Wow... :lolabove:

Any longtime LV fan would know Pearl was a great friend to Pat while he was here and a great supporter of the women's basketball team. Hell that avatar was from a LV game.

That's what we call a credibility kill-shot....
 
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#187
#187
ivyleague said:
*shrug* I could take or leave the men's programs at UT, to be honest. That doesn't make me any less of a fan of the Lady Vols basketball program. I have been a fan of the Lady Vols basketball program and have been attending Lady Vols basketball games since I was a preteen, and have spent a sizable amount of money as such. I'm as much a fan as anyone out there, alumni or not. Beyond that, a huge portion (probably most) of my disposable income is spent in the state of Tennessee, due to the fact that I live incredibly close. So don't pull the "drive by fan" card on me. If I had to guess, half the people on this board are not UT alums.
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Who gives a crap which state you spend your money? If you want to tell people to find other teams to root for or question their loyalty, etc., then you should be a little bit more than a part-time Tennessee fan. Either that or tone down the sanctimony to those who actually are full time Tennessee fans.
 
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#188
#188
The problem with Warlick--and make no mistake this was a problem with Summitt for several years before she stepped down--is that we simply do not play very good basketball, and haven't for years. I'll venture to say that in all the games we've played against good/solid opponents over the last 8+ years, we've been bad in about 80 percent, or we've had long stretches of bad as we saw in the first half against texas. That was typical of the way we've played against solid competition for years. Warlick always complains about the defense in her 1980s way, but in fact our offense is usually the problem. When you can't score, or struggle to score, yea, it puts a lot more pressure on your defense.
 
#189
#189
Darth_Vol said:
Most point to South Carolina as Holly's "signature" win. In either case, see the disclaimer about the overall weakness of the SEC during Holly's tenure. The team Staley has put together this year is the first SEC roster I would seriously consider swapping with Tennessee from a talent standpoint.
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But I didn't say Staley...I said Gary Blair. The coach who outcoached KMR and a Griner led Baylor team, Tara's Stanford team with the Ogwumike sisters, and Muffet's ND team with 5 future top 10 WNBA picks to win the 2011 NCAA Championship. You asked for an example of Holly's success against a really good coach, and I give you Gary Blair. 3 times.

Does that count, or does Gary Blair not qualify as "a really good coach", and if not, what excludes him from consideration.

BTW, last year's SC and Tennessee team's were pretty evenly matched in talent. Hoopgurlz is not the end all be all of talent evaluation. Mitchell/Welch/Coates > Simmons/Graves/Russell, no matter the # next to their names under "HS awards".
 
#190
#190
Amb3096 said:
Does that count, or does Gary Blair not qualify as "a really good coach", and if not, what excludes him from consideration."
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Blair is an excellent coach. I'm just not convinced Tennessee didn't win beat them on talent disparity rather than Holly's superb X's and O's.

Amb3096 said:
BTW, last year's SC and Tennessee team's were pretty evenly matched in talent. Hoopgurlz is not the end all be all of talent evaluation. Mitchell/Welch/Coates > Simmons/Graves/Russell, no matter the # next to their names under "HS awards".
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I wouldn't have traded rosters with them last year. This year I would seriously consider it. Either way, we're going to find out soon what kind of coach Staley really is...
 
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#191
#191
Darth_Vol said:
Blair is an excellent coach. I'm just not convinced Tennessee didn't win beat them on talent disparity rather than Holly's superb X's and O's.
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But your question was when was the last time that Holly beat a really good coach. And Blair fits that criteria. And in her 3 wins, it's not like Blair didn't have a lot of talent on his team. When she beat them 2 years ago, Gary had the best player on either side on his team (Kelsey Bone). Staley is 0-3 vs. Blair in the same timeframe.

Darth_Vol said:
I wouldn't have traded rosters with them last year. This year I would seriously consider it. Either way, we're going to find out soon what kind of coach Staley really is...
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Last year, I would have traded Simmons for Mitchell, Graves for Welch, Russell for Coates, and Burdick for Ibiam. That's 4 of the top 6 on the rotation. That was a talented team that just needed an upgrade at the wing...much like Tennessee does.
 
#192
#192
After being laid up with illness for the past 2 days I finally managed to get my head up enough to watch the replay of the Lipscomb game.

1st Tn played at half throttle.
2nd Tn played at half throttle.
&
3rd Tn played at half throttle.


nothing to gain from playing this game and it will probably harm them in retrospect.

imho
 
#193
#193
Amb3096 said:
But your question was when was the last time that Holly beat a really good coach. And Blair fits that criteria. And in her 3 wins, it's not like Blair didn't have a lot of talent on his team. When she beat them 2 years ago, Gary had the best player on either side on his team (Kelsey Bone). Staley is 0-3 vs. Blair in the same timeframe.



Last year, I would have traded Simmons for Mitchell, Graves for Welch, Russell for Coates, and Burdick for Ibiam. That's 4 of the top 6 on the rotation. That was a talented team that just needed an upgrade at the wing...much like Tennessee does.
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You know Holly had a really good run in the SEC last year. They were starting to play good defense (when Mass went out), passing he ball well, good game plans. I thought, she is finally learning how to be a head coach. Then what does she do in the tournament? This year starting out I was still giving her the benefit of the doubt. Her coaching so far even in the games they have won, except for the first two with all the freshmen, has been mediocre at best. I don't want mediocrity for the Lady Vols.
 
#194
#194
gule said:
After being laid up with illness for the past 2 days I finally managed to get my head up enough to watch the replay of the Lipscomb game.

1st Tn played at half throttle.
2nd Tn played at half throttle.
&
3rd Tn played at half throttle.


nothing to gain from playing this game and it will probably harm them in retrospect.

imho
Click to expand...

The thing that irked me about this game is you have a chance to work on your half court offense and what do they do? They work on getting Burdick more involved. Very unimaginative. See how that works against Stanford.
 
#195
#195
Sandvol said:
You know Holly had a really good run in the SEC last year. They were starting to play good defense (when Mass went out), passing he ball well, good game plans. I thought, she is finally learning how to be a head coach. Then what does she do in the tournament? This year starting out I was still giving her the benefit of the doubt. Her coaching so far even in the games they have won, except for the first two with all the freshmen, has been mediocre at best. I don't want mediocrity for the Lady Vols.
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Jeff Walz also lost to the same Maryland team that beat Tennessee, but that doesn't mean he's a bad coach. Maryland also had Alyssa Thomas, who was one of the 5 best players in the country. Truthfully, Maryland underperformed for most of last season, but came alive in the tournament. They were preseason #5, so it's not like Tennessee lost to Ball State last year.
 
#196
#196
Sandvol said:
The thing that irked me about this game is you have a chance to work on your half court offense and what do they do? They work on getting Burdick more involved. Very unimaginative. See how that works against Stanford.
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Agreed. No excuse for playing Dunbar so little. Of course Cierra will look good against a D2 team. Why bother with the charade?
 
#197
#197
Unimane said:
Perusing through your usual tripe in this thread, I came across this gem from page 5. For someone who pulls out the "true fan" card to Tennessee people on a regular basis, the fact that you didn't know the avatar is Bruce Pearl is priceless. Perhaps you should be less arrogant and caustic in your repeated attempts to tell everyone how stupid they are and who to support when you merely adopted the team as opposed to people who are actually alumni, fans of all Tennessee sports and, generally, not drive by supporters of UT.

Or not. Hell, I'm looking forward to your next over the top comment pulled out of thin air about how terrible people are as human beings based upon practically no knowledge of them or another story about how smart you and your school are. Should be a hoot.
Click to expand...


I wish you hadn't told her. I wanted to see how many times she brought it up.
 
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#198
#198
Amb3096 said:
But your question was when was the last time that Holly beat a really good coach.
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Actually, I said "held her own" against a really good coach. I would think someone so concerned with semantics could tell the difference. Again, she won the A&M games with talent, not scheme.

I just can't think of any instance where I've come away from a win thinking "Wow, Holly really coached circles around ______."
 
#199
#199
gule said:
After being laid up with illness for the past 2 days I finally managed to get my head up enough to watch the replay of the Lipscomb game.

1st Tn played at half throttle.
2nd Tn played at half throttle.
&
3rd Tn played at half throttle.


nothing to gain from playing this game and it will probably harm them in retrospect.

imho
Click to expand...
Hope you are feeling better. Get well soon.
 
#200
#200
Amb3096 made this point in the varied opinion..."But that's my point...Holly didn't have the pressure of having to build the program. She inherited a really strong one, and that makes her job easier. IMO, it's easier to maintain something than it is to build it from scratch. She's obviously no Geno, but she doesn't have to be. She's still getting top players to come, she's still posting seasons that most coaches and fan bases would be happy with, and truthfully she's doing about as well as Pat did in her last few years." and here in lies the problem. Some of us, myself included see the program slipping away and other programs are now in the spotlight that use to be ours. I don't care how you slice it, we are not as good as we use to be. I think the house was left in good order when Pat retired. I am not sure the program is in good hands now.JMO
 
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