Gas Prices Pass Record

[WA_Vol]

What is wrong with that?

:question:

Nothing wrong with that. I think when someone has outpatient surgery for a couple of days they should have a hundred grand in medical bills, and neurosurgeons should make a million dollar a year. Seems completely fair to me.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Nothing wrong with that. I think when someone has outpatient surgery for a couple of days they should have a hundred grand in medical bills, and neurosurgeons should make a million dollar a year. Seems completely fair to me.

100 grand for outpatient surgery?

Why does it have to be fair?

I would hope he would make a million a year he would pay half in taxes and another quarter of a million for insurance.

The poor fella is only left with 250,000 to live on.

 

[f1ip]

100 grand for outpatient surgery?

Why does it have to be fair?

I would hope he would make a million a year he would pay half in taxes and another quarter of a million for insurance.

The poor fella is only left with 250,000 to live on.

Thats sad......who in their right mind expect them to get by on a measly 250,000.

 

[allvol123]

Nothing wrong with that. I think when someone has outpatient surgery for a couple of days they should have a hundred grand in medical bills, and neurosurgeons should make a million dollar a year. Seems completely fair to me.

How do you have outpatient surgery for a couple of days?

Neurosurgeon make a million a year? If he saw 20 patients in a week and charged each a $1000 then he would make a million. Seems reasonable enough to me. Oh yeah remember he has to pay for assistants, office space, high tech equipment, etc...But you would rather give him a capped salary. Fine you'll get capped service in return. You'll get a neurosurgeon that graduated from the Bahamas with a B average and has no idea how to fix your problem.

 

[GAVol]

How do you have outpatient surgery for a couple of days?

In a socialized system, it could take that long. Gov't doctors get coffee breaks.

 

[allvol123]

Yea but it will be government coffee. Starbucks will be outlawed in this system. They might make too much money.

 

[WA_Vol]

How do you have outpatient surgery for a couple of days?

Neurosurgeon make a million a year? If he saw 20 patients in a week and charged each a $1000 then he would make a million. Seems reasonable enough to me. Oh yeah remember he has to pay for assistants, office space, high tech equipment, etc...But you would rather give him a capped salary. Fine you'll get capped service in return. You'll get a neurosurgeon that graduated from the Bahamas with a B average and has no idea how to fix your problem.

My neighbor had outpatient surgery for a blocked artery he spent 3 days at the hospital.

And yes a coworker's wife worked for a neurosurgeon who made a million/yr.

 

[allvol123]

My neighbor had outpatient surgery for a blocked artery he spent 3 days at the hospital.

And yes a coworker's wife worked for a neurosurgeon who made a million/yr.

1) If he spent 3 days there then it isn't really outpatient surgery.

2) Good I am glad he made a million. His hard work and dedication has paid off for him. Imagine that, hard work and dedication resulting in financial success.

 

[volinbham]

yes we only want people getting into medicine because they want to make lots of money, not practice medicine and help people who are sick, but mainly to make money.

It's called risk and reward. The cost to attend medical school coupled with liability insurance, licensing, etc. would effectively turn that 120K into about 30K a year. Tending bar would be alot better risk/reward equation.


Someone mentioned doctors in India. I see classes full of doctors from India coming to the US to get a Masters degree in Public Health because they will make more money than they did as a doctor! (and MPHs are highly paid). This is repeated at universities across the country. Being a doctor is a highly demanding and stressful job. I don't begrudge them their salary one bit.

 

[WA_Vol]

Your missing the whole point, and that is cost controls need to be established for health care.

Whether you agree on 120k, 100k, etc thats just a number I wrote for an example. The point is without cost controls health care costs are never going to be limited or managable.

There are literally thousands and thousands of people being rejected for medical school every year. I believe the majority of them do not want to go to medical school simply to enrich themselves. They have a desire to help sick people get better. I don't think simply setting cost controls on doctor's salaries is going to destroy the desire of the majority of them to go to medical school.

No one is saying doctors shouldn't be well paid, its simply limits to how much they can make.

 

[allvol123]

Yea, maybe the government should take over big oil and healthcare as they do with the education system. That seems to be working great so far.

 

[volinbham]

Your missing the whole point, and that is cost controls need to be established for health care.

Whether you agree on 120k, 100k, etc thats just a number I wrote for an example. The point is without cost controls health care costs are never going to be limited or managable.

There are literally thousands and thousands of people being rejected for medical school every year. I believe the majority of them do not want to go to medical school simply to enrich themselves. They have a desire to help sick people get better. I don't think simply setting cost controls on doctor's salaries is going to destroy the desire of the majority of them to go to medical school.

No one is saying doctors shouldn't be well paid, its simply limits to how much they can make.

First, there is a reason many are rejected - they can't do it! I don't doubt many are completely altrustic and sincerely want to help. That still doesn't make them qualified. I don't believe we have shortage of doctors in this country (nurses? yes).

Cost controls are in place - Insurance companies use them (yet ironically contribute to healthcare costs) and the government uses them extensively through medicare and medicaid.

As in the case with the gas/oil industry - it is much more complicated than doctors overcharging or Exxon over charging. Cost controls attack symptoms rather than sources of cost. They are a short-term, feel-good measure. Since they do not address the real reasons for cost increases and thus price increases, they simply serve to squeeze incentives out of the providers. When cost controls aren't as dynamic as true costs; providers are driven out of business - supply shrinks and the situation worsens.

 

[WA_Vol]

First, there is a reason many are rejected - they can't do it! I don't doubt many are completely altrustic and sincerely want to help. That still doesn't make them qualified. I don't believe we have shortage of doctors in this country (nurses? yes).

Cost controls are in place - Insurance companies use them (yet ironically contribute to healthcare costs) and the government uses them extensively through medicare and medicaid.

As in the case with the gas/oil industry - it is much more complicated than doctors overcharging or Exxon over charging. Cost controls attack symptoms rather than sources of cost. They are a short-term, feel-good measure. Since they do not address the real reasons for cost increases and thus price increases, they simply serve to squeeze incentives out of the providers. When cost controls aren't as dynamic as true costs; providers are driven out of business - supply shrinks and the situation worsens.

So you saying cost controls are in place now? I couldn't disagree more.

Costs are out of control and the U.S. system is the most expensive system in the world as a result. While 42 million people don't have insurance and access to it.

Exxon made more money last year then any company in history. Yet you believe they are not overcharging? You must believe they are the most efficient well run company in the world. I certainly don't believe that. A large part of their business is simply digging a hole in the ground and pumping oil out of it. Yet that incredible technological innovation oil companies have become the wealthiest corporations in the world.

 

[volinbham]

So you saying cost controls are in place now? I couldn't disagree more.

Costs are out of control and the U.S. system is the most expensive system in the world. While 42 million people don't have insurance and access to it.

Exxon made more money last year then any company in history. Yet you believe they are not overcharging? You must believe they are the most efficient well run company in the world. I certainly don't believe that. A large part of their business is simply digging a hole in the ground and pumping oil out of it. Yet that incredible technological innovation they have become the wealthiest corporations in the world?

I guess it depends on what you mean by cost controls. Managed care and government run Medicare and Medicaid serve both as cost controls and price controls. They stipulate how much a doctor or healthcare provider will be paid for his/her/its services REGARDLESS of the cost to provide it. Because of the costs that these providers face, they limit the number of managed care or medicare/medicaid patients they serve so they can stay in business.

WRT Oil companies - if all it takes is pumping oil out of a hole then certainly more companies would jump in. Big Oil controls a very small percent of the oil reserves in the world. Big Oil doesn't set oil prices - their primary cost of operation. As it fluctuates so to do their costs and revenues. The cost of oil is one part of the cost of gas. Exxon (for example) doesn't set the price of gas. Market forces do. If Exxon or any other oil company had such control on gas prices, they would simply lower them a bit to take business from other oil co.s. -- like the airlines do. They (airlines) set final prices and as a result, they instantly match each other's price drops.

 

[Vol423]

And as I said, walk into most of the poor souls homes and you will find cell, cable and a bunch of other unnecessary crap, meaning they have made choices on what is more important. Luxury items they have deemed to be more essential than healthcare.

You are seriously deluded if you think most people that don't have healthcare have chosen cell phones and luxury items over health insurance. We're all lucky that the idea of not being able to afford health insurance sounds so absurd, but the fact of the matter is that a large percentage of the U.S. population can't afford it.

 

[Vol423]

It's called risk and reward. The cost to attend medical school coupled with liability insurance, licensing, etc. would effectively turn that 120K into about 30K a year. Tending bar would be alot better risk/reward equation.


Someone mentioned doctors in India. I see classes full of doctors from India coming to the US to get a Masters degree in Public Health because they will make more money than they did as a doctor! (and MPHs are highly paid). This is repeated at universities across the country. Being a doctor is a highly demanding and stressful job. I don't begrudge them their salary one bit.

The way you're characterizing this is a bit misleading. The reason that they're coming to the U.S. to get a Masters degree in Public Health is because they will be paid in U.S. dollars here versus Rupee in India. Do you care to guess how much 1 Rupee is worth? Try 2.44 cents. Why do you think all the U.S. companies are exporting so many jobs to India? Cheap labor. It's not that India doesn't pay its doctors extremely well compared to other professions. It's the value of their currency that has India's people (in all professions, not just doctors) coming to the United States.

 

[allvol123]

You are seriously deluded if you think most people that don't have healthcare have chosen cell phones and luxury items over health insurance. We're all lucky that the idea of not being able to afford health insurance sounds so absurd, but the fact of the matter is that a large percentage of the U.S. population can't afford it.

Really? Show me otherwise.

 

[allvol123]

. A large part of their business is simply digging a hole in the ground and pumping oil out of it. .

Wow, as simple as this is, why don't you get into the business? Then you can give your gas away while breaking even or losing?

 

[KentheOrange]

More from th same article:

Thanks for the source. I participate in Harris polls and am not the believer I used to be in their results. Harris sends out polls with different twists to the questions and I'm not sure how they reconcile the different results or if they just release the raw polls.

I don't know millions of Canadians, but the ones I do know hedge their medical bets by not staying out of Canada for more than 179 days at a time. If they are out of the country for more than a 180 day period they lose their health benefits.

A Canadian owned the townhouse next to me for several years and always spent half the year here and half there. He had a serious eye problem that required major surgery that he had performed in Canada. It wasn't life threatening so the wait didn't bother him since he had lived with the situation for a while. People dying in Canada while waiting for equipment to become available used to be commonplace. I can't speak to the current situation since I am not in touch with people dealing with it.

 

[KentheOrange]

You don't realize that there are more than enough intelligent people willing to be doctors purely out of the kindness of their heart.

Check out the shortage of doctors in rural America. How is the nurse shortage in his part of the country?

 

[WA_Vol]

Check out the shortage of doctors in rural America. How is the nurse shortage in his part of the country?

Must not be too much of a shortage considering the AMA doesn't allow people from India, or Canada or any other country to come here and practice medicine or nursing.

Of course, its perfectly fine for someone to come here from India and be a computer programmer or an electrical engineer, and no one questions their qualifications. Funny how that is.

Please don't tell me how they are not as educated in countries like India, its much more competitive to get in college in India then here.

 

[volinbham]

The way you're characterizing this is a bit misleading. The reason that they're coming to the U.S. to get a Masters degree in Public Health is because they will be paid in U.S. dollars here versus Rupee in India. Do you care to guess how much 1 Rupee is worth? Try 2.44 cents. Why do you think all the U.S. companies are exporting so many jobs to India? Cheap labor. It's not that India doesn't pay its doctors extremely well compared to other professions. It's the value of their currency that has India's people (in all professions, not just doctors) coming to the United States.

Being paid in rupees is only part of the equation. If costs of living are equally adjusted down, one can live quite well. In fact, there is a growing boom of millionaires in India, including doctors. HSBC (investment banking firm) claims that India is the fastest-growing market for wealth creation. BMW is building a plant there to meet booming demand and Mercedes already has a plant there.

The docs I see are giving up their ability to practice medicine (their medical degrees do not qualify them to practice medicine in the US).

 

[WA_Vol]

Wow, as simple as this is, why don't you get into the business? Then you can give your gas away while breaking even or losing?

if you trying to suggest that oil companies are the most profitable corporations in the world because they are the best run, most productive, or their technological innovation that's laughable.

They dont even design the wells that are being used, they buy those from manufacturers. They simply get drilling rights and use their geologists and test wells to determine where to drill.

Simply taking the oil out of the ground, oil that they don't even own, and bring it to the consumer makes them the richest corporations in the world? And you don't they might be overcharging the consumer? Oil they dont even own for the most part but is on aother countries land or someone's personal property.

Read this article about how shell is trying to control from the drill to the pump and squeeze out the little guy so they can completely control prices:

Dealer prices gas over $4 in protest / He says tactics used by Shell are unfair to operators

DeCota and Oyster see a more sinister motive: If the dealers like them leave, a company like Shell can run its stations with its own employees and set its own pump prices. "That way they really are controlling it from the well head to the gas pump,'' says DeCota. "Once the gas companies get control, you are going to pay the price.''

But obviously oil companies aren't trying to stick it to the consumer, that must be a misprint.

By the way am I the only one on this board who is required to cite sources to support my opinion?

 

[volinbham]

Must not be too much of a shortage considering the AMA doesn't allow people from India, or Canada or any other country to come here and practice medicine or nursing.

Of course, its perfectly fine for someone to come here from India and be a computer programmer or an electrical engineer, and no one questions their qualifications. Funny how that is.

Please don't tell me how they are not as educated in countries like India, its much more competitive to get in college in India then here.

They are not as educated. The degree in India is an undergraduate degree lasting about 5 and 1/2 years including residence. Graduates are not MDs. There is an MD degree in India but it is much like ours in the US and I would guess grads could become docs in the US without too much hassle.

In the U.S., there is an undergraduate degree in sciences (pre-med), and a 4 year professional degree followed by residency (typically 3 years).

What we call doctors here in the US are definitely more educated.

 

[champyvol]

if you trying to suggest that oil companies are the most profitable corporations in the world because they are the best run, most productive, or their technological innovation that's laughable.

They dont even design the wells that are being used, they buy those from manufacturers. They simply get drilling rights and use their geologists and test wells to determine where to drill.

Simply taking the oil out of the ground, oil that they don't even own, and bring it to the consumer makes them the richest corporations in the world? And you don't they might be overcharging the consumer? Oil they dont even own for the most part but is on aother countries land or someone's personal property.

Read this article about how shell is trying to control from the drill to the pump and squeeze out the little guy so they can completely control prices:

Dealer prices gas over $4 in protest / He says tactics used by Shell are unfair to operators



But obviously oil companies aren't trying to stick it to the consumer, that must be a misprint.

By the way am I the only one on this board who is required to cite sources to support my opinion?

because you make sense brother and they just don't want to admit it.:hi: