Gov. Lee announces permitless gun legislation

#102
#102
NEOCON said:
I have a concealed carry permit.

The license did not require any proper training.

About a day at a fun shop talking legal stuff and then three shots at the range.

I agree there should be proper training but the license part was a joke.
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Can you tell us where this fun shop is? :)
 
#103
#103
DancingOutlaw said:
Have you taken the course? I had a 90+ year old guy shooting .25 wadcutter that could barely see the target and Tactical Chad who dumped his mag so quickly the gun jammed more than once. It’s a joke and is not affording you any more safety than permitless carry.
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Then maybe the course you took needs revising or you could have selected a better training provider. Maybe the 90 y.o. rethought public carry after realizing he can't see. Maybe Chad considered his bad habits.
Maybe anecdotes are rarely the sum appraisal.

But no maybe about this; I don't want people with little to no firearms familiarity deciding they need to carry, and have them anywhere near my family. I don't want "yeah, had firearms all my life" and never considers his bad habits and overly confident attitude, around them either. Many of them are the self-assured absolutists.
 
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#105
#105
hog88 said:
The two are not relatable.
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Sure they are. People have become convinced by the argument that they have no right freely move about the country in an automobiled unless government licenses it. That's not true. Government must accommodate the right AND make the attempt to see everyone does it safely. Licensing doesn't prevent you from driving but ensures you can do so with at least minimum knowledge of safe operation. If you can't demonstrate it or don't drive lawfully, you don't drive. It's an esoteric argument, but in practicality that's how it works.

If you threaten someone, your tongue is not cut out but you are arrested. If your religion requires human sacrifice, that's going to be a slight legal problem.

We make reasonable accommodations regarding our rights. We're disagreeing on what that means.
 
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#106
#106
hog88 said:
The comma in the 2A separates the militia and the people.
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Which doesn't mean and the people aren't the same thing, they are. It simply states one reason for the people to keep and bear arms, and that is so the state is not disarmed by having the people (the militia) disarmed.
 
#108
#108
NCFisher said:
Then maybe the course you took needs revising or you could have selected a better training provider. Maybe the 90 y.o. rethought public carry after realizing he can't see. Maybe Chad considered his bad habits.
Maybe anecdotes are rarely the sum appraisal.

But no maybe about this; I don't want people with little to no firearms familiarity deciding they need to carry, and have them anywhere near my family. I don't want "yeah, had firearms all my life" and never considers his bad habits and overly confident attitude, around them either. Many of them are the self-assured absolutists.
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Too bad that what you want doesn’t matter in this discussion. People carry legally and illegally everyday around you. Everywhere you go. Some are idiots. Some are felons. Some are normal people
 
#109
#109
NCFisher said:
Sure they are. People have become convinced by the argument that they have no right freely move about the country in an automobiled unless government licenses it. That's not true. Government must accommodate the right AND make the attempt to see everyone does it safely. Licensing doesn't prevent you from driving but ensures you can do so with at least minimum knowledge of safe operation. If you can't demonstrate it or don't drive lawfully, you don't drive. It's an esoteric argument, but in practicality that's how it works.

If you threaten someone, your tongue is not cut out but you are arrested. If your religion requires human sacrifice, that's going to be a slight legal problem.

We make reasonable accommodations regarding our rights. We're disagreeing on what that means.
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You are not arrested just because you “threaten” someone. And driving is not a right
 
#110
#110
NCFisher said:
Sure they are. People have become convinced by the argument that they have no right freely move about the country in an automobiled unless government licenses it. That's not true. Government must accommodate the right AND make the attempt to see everyone does it safely. Licensing doesn't prevent you from driving but ensures you can do so with at least minimum knowledge of safe operation. If you can't demonstrate it or don't drive lawfully, you don't drive. It's an esoteric argument, but in practicality that's how it works.

If you threaten someone, your tongue is not cut out but you are arrested. If your religion requires human sacrifice, that's going to be a slight legal problem.

We make reasonable accommodations regarding our rights. We're disagreeing on what that means.
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You’re making the same mistake Luther makes. No one has the right to injure another person so no matter what right you are exercising you cannot injure another.
 
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#111
#111
NCFisher said:
Which doesn't mean and the people aren't the same thing, they are. It simply states one reason for the people to keep and bear arms, and that is so the state is not disarmed by having the people (the militia) disarmed.
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“A well regulated militia” and “keep and bear arms” are two separate subjects that shall not be infringed.
 
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#114
#114
It's the person's responsibility to learn responsible gun ownership and use. We don't need the government to tell us or teach us what that is. We don't or should not rely on the government to educate us on everything we do. Plenty of resources for folks to learn about everything we need to learn about. That's one on the problems with our society today. We don't have any common sense. People don't know how to change a tire, don't know how to unclog a drain. Rely on a beep or a light to change the filter in the air conditioner. Heck, many don't know how to mow their own lawn. Or society is so smart but so stupid at the same time. Or reliance on others for even the simplest task is astounding me.

The lack of firearms knowledge is a product of the demonization of guns by the leftist and their media. Used to you either had guns and were taught the proper use by Family, dad, grand dad or such or you had a friend that had guns and were taught safety through their network. There are so many now that have no prior history with firearms that have grown interested. Most gun shop owners that I've been associated with gauge the knowledge of firearms with prospective buyers before they make their purchase and advise them on how to proceed. To those that think the CC classes are anything but a joke need to really research what's required and it calls into question whether they are really qualified to speak on the matter.
 
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#116
#116
Weezy said:
Sounds good. Now let's have sellers and manufacturers be legally liable if someone is accidentally killed by the carrier if they took no action to ensure that person was responsible. Let's keep the government out of it, and put the training and safety on the private industry.
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hog88 said:
Because the 2A says nothing about a permit.
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except for....I don’t know....the first four words of the amendment you are referencing
 
#119
#119
hog88 said:
They were not taught any of that, they might have been given a brief introduction.
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The class I attended several years ago did - day and a half of classroom instruction and testing. Seems like we fired at least 50 rounds on the range - a practice round and then qualification at varying distances. I sat in on my wife's class (and fired with the class for fun) - it was very similar. I'll admit I've renewed my permit a few times, but I've never carried - didn't feel a need. If you aren't going to do that kind of level, then you might as well just go without the whole process. If you don't teach basics and safety then there's no point in charging for the carry permit process ... people will find out about the liability aspect the hard way when they don't understand the other part.
 
#120
#120
NCFisher said:
Oh, c'mon; do you think you're going to hear about every/any unintentional discharges or injuries? Hell, you don't even hear about any/all the murders that happen in those 16 states.

About 500 people die annually from unintentional shootings, and 11,000 unintentional firearm injuries occur annually. Firearm injuries in the United States
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A lot of people don't understand how "unloaded" guns kill people - or how to verify safely that they are in fact unloaded. As you said earlier, fewer and fewer people have grown up using firearms. I firmly believe from what I see and read that fewer and fewer people grow up using critical thinking skills, too.
 
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#121
#121
hog88 said:
I know it’s unbelievable but I was a responsible gun owner long before the .gov sold me a permit.
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As I recall, you grew up on a farm - you probably drove tractors etc before kids elsewhere ever got behind the wheel of anything. As we move to an urban especially suburban rather than rural society, too many kids miss out on skills that should keep them safe and alive. Inner city thugland - just isn't part of the equation - high surrounding walls and free ammo for them.
 
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#122
#122
AM64 said:
The class I attended several years ago did - day and a half of classroom instruction and testing. Seems like we fired at least 50 rounds on the range - a practice round and then qualification at varying distances. I sat in on my wife's class (and fired with the class for fun) - it was very similar. I'll admit I've renewed my permit a few times, but I've never carried - didn't feel a need. If you aren't going to do that kind of level, then you might as well just go without the whole process. If you don't teach basics and safety then there's no point in charging for the carry permit process ... people will find out about the liability aspect the hard way when they don't understand the other part.
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The class me and the wife did was pretty much a joke, hour or so of classroom and then to the range for qualification. Nobody failed at qualifying.
 
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#123
#123
AM64 said:
As I recall, you grew up on a farm - you probably drove tractors etc before kids elsewhere ever got behind the wheel of anything. As we move to an urban especially suburban rather than rural society, too many kids miss out on skills that should keep them safe and alive. Inner city thugland - just isn't part of the equation - high surrounding walls and free ammo for them.
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Yeah, I was on tractors and driving before I was 10, allowed to take a .22 ground hog hunting by myself around 10 or so.

I’ve said several times on this board that we need to put firearm familiarization back in the schools.
 
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#124
#124
hog88 said:
Yeah, I was on tractors and driving before I was 10, allowed to take a .22 ground hog hunting by myself around 10 or so.

I’ve said several times on this board that we need to put firearm familiarization back in the schools.
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And shop and some other old fashioned stuff, but we're too busy at college prep for Big Mac servers with advanced degrees in the arts.
 
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