Has the talent capped under Butch?

#51
#51
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Even though there were 20 injuries you think 9-4 is the best that Butch could do, even if those guys had been healthy? Interesting
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In addition to the injuries you mention, our total roster was fewer than 75 (down 10+ players) and we red-shirted 11 guys. We were probably down close to 40 players, not to mention guys that were playing through injuries. It was a tough year all around.
 
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#53
#53
Kristy* said:
We can't recruit now when we land a consensus top 15 class, but Baylor's recruiting well by landing a 39th ranked class (after coming off a 14th ranked class last year)? You serious right now?
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For real. But he didn't even know that the big turnover game was against aTm and not SC. Doesn't seem like he even watches but has just found himself a place where he can complain and make himself feel better
 
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#54
#54
Fair weather as you can see all over the state now. I've never seen as much Bama and UF tags, stickers and flags in my life as I have in the last 7-8 years. Fair weather fans root for whoever is winning at the time. No loyalty whatsoever.
 
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#55
#55
Bassmaster_Vol said:
It wasn't the same team that played Bama. Every DT was out except Vickers. We lost every starting OL for that game and even a couple back ups. Both linebackers were out and even back ups there as well. Cam was out and so was Abernathy. I think TK also missed some time in that game. We were playing Buchanan at Corner as a freshman. That isn't close to the same team.

As far as title 9, something was affecting recruiting before the season ever started. That wasn't losses to Vandy and SC. It was either title 9 or the collapses last season or both. And Baylor finished 39th with nothing but 3 stars
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If they can get kids to go to Baylor with new reports coming out daily Tennessee should be doing bette than a bag full of 3 stars.
 
#56
#56
MiramarVol said:
Fair weather as you can see all over the state now. I've never seen as much Bama and UF tags, stickers and flags in my life as I have in the last 7-8 years. Fair weather fans root for whoever is winning at the time. No loyalty whatsoever.
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This I can agree with.

It's sickening.
 
#57
#57
McGeesPub said:
I said even before the season that this probably will be the most talented team we have under Butch. That's no indictment- the 98 team that won the NC was not as talented as the 97 team, and arguably the 2001 team. I think after the back to back 15th-ish rated classes, it will be extremely unlikely that we get back to that level.

We are very reliant upon our 2015 class for our standouts as of right now, so if a couple of them have good years and go pro, and with the 2014 class essentially moving on, our talent level will be uncertain at best.
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The class last year may have been ranked 14th, but I don't know why. Last years class was a great class. Far better than this years class. Last years class was an A, but we only took 20 players. This years class is a B- imo
 
#59
#59
Bassmaster_Vol said:
The class last year may have been ranked 14th, but I don't know why. Last years class was a great class. Far better than this years class. Last years class was an A, but we only took 20 players. This years class is a B- imo
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Last year's class hasn't shown nearly enough to call it an A. A solid B would be generous at this point.
 
#60
#60
Bassmaster_Vol said:
I honestly don't know how a ball that hits Croom in the hands and flies up in the air right to a DB, or Kamara making just an incredible play only to have the ball stripped at the 3 yard line while making an effort to score, or Kelly busting through the middle on a big gain only to have someone punch the ball loose has anything to do with coaching. Thinking back to the game, only turnover that I think you can say coaching is an effect was the last one where Dobbs tried to force the ball into double coverage to Wolfe. Still, that's more on Dobbs than the staff
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Discipline was way down last year compared to the first few years of Butch Jones time here. More turnovers, more penalties and some of the drama we heard about throughout the year comes down to discipline. Now, I don't think that is fair to blame that fully on Butch or the coaches but some of it has to be. But either way, I look for the discipline to be a lot better in 2018. Butch and company will correct that.

Edit - Not to mention a lot of that discipline groundwork is being installed right now by Rock. I still think he may have been one of the most important hires Butch made this off season.
 
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#61
#61
Kristy* said:
We can't recruit now when we land a consensus top 15 class, but Baylor's recruiting well by landing a 39th ranked class (after coming off a 14th ranked class last year)? You serious right now?
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Did I say we can't recruit? No
It's slipping because of things Butch doesn't do well.


Full of 3 stars who won't contribute right away which Tennessee desperately needs
 
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#62
#62
Dudleys87 said:
If they can get kids to go to Baylor with new reports coming out daily Tennessee should be doing bette than a bag full of 3 stars.
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again. 39th in the country with 26 3 stars at Baylor. Butch was 17th on the composite and 11th on 247 rankings. So...
 
#63
#63
Bassmaster_Vol said:
I honestly don't know how a ball that hits Croom in the hands and flies up in the air right to a DB, or Kamara making just an incredible play only to have the ball stripped at the 3 yard line while making an effort to score, or Kelly busting through the middle on a big gain only to have someone punch the ball loose has anything to do with coaching. Thinking back to the game, only turnover that I think you can say coaching is an effect was the last one where Dobbs tried to force the ball into double coverage to Wolfe. Still, that's more on Dobbs than the staff
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5 fumbles lost is due to bad luck and bad ball security. Ohio State and Michigan lost the same number of fumbles during the season as UT did against A&M. Washington only lost 6. Those were 3 of the top 5 teams in the country. It's not just bad luck, IMO.
 
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#65
#65
McGeesPub said:
Last year's class hasn't shown nearly enough to call it an A. A solid B would be generous at this point.
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I was just judging by their rankings on signing day, just like we are with the 2017 class. Who knows, 2017 class could be loaded with NFL prospects and turn out to be an A+, they just aren't developed yet. But in national signing day it's an average class in appearance. While people have complained about last years class, I thought it was loaded. 2 5 stars in Kongbo and Warrior, best QB in the nation in JG, great DB class as well as a great OL class. Only thing that was missing were DTs, but Johnson was the top juco DT so we did get him. It was a class loaded with 4 stars and the 3 stars we did sign were high upside guys like Tatum, Niehaus and Buchanan. I was just judging from the players that signed on signing day. Can't judge from on field yet just like you can't the 2017 class
 
#66
#66
Nash_Vol97 said:
Discipline was way down last year compared to the first few years of Butch Jones time here. More turnovers, more penalties and some of the drama we heard about throughout the year comes down to discipline. Now, I don't think that is fair to blame that fully on Butch or the coaches but some of it has to be. But either way, I look for the discipline to be a lot better in 2018. Butch and company will correct that.

Edit - Not to mention a lot of that discipline groundwork is being installed right now by Rock. I still think he may have been one of the most important hires Butch made this off season.
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I do agree with that for sure. Every team before this one didn't turn the ball over or commit penalties. This team was bad in both areas. Butch may have made a mistake with the player led team idea
 
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#68
#68
CTM said:
Isn't interesting that Bama loses two players (Scarbrough and Jackson) and it cost them a NC, we lose 10 players or more and everyone expects to win the East.
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Even with the losses we were still the most talented in team in the east. Keep in mind we lost to the bottom feeders in the sec and we were more talented than the last four teams we played against. You tried it!
 
#69
#69
Bassmaster_Vol said:
again. 39th in the country with 26 3 stars at Baylor. Butch was 17th on the composite and 11th on 247 rankings. So...
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And yet he couldn't win with two top 10s prior.

And look where it finished as an SEC class: 7th

But please continue to buy that 5 star message
 
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#70
#70
Bassmaster_Vol said:
I was just judging by their rankings on signing day, just like we are with the 2017 class. Who knows, 2017 class could be loaded with NFL prospects and turn out to be an A+, they just aren't developed yet. But in national signing day it's an average class in appearance. While people have complained about last years class, I thought it was loaded. 2 5 stars in Kongbo and Warrior, best QB in the nation in JG, great DB class as well as a great OL class. Only thing that was missing were DTs, but Johnson was the top juco DT so we did get him. It was a class loaded with 4 stars and the 3 stars we did sign were high upside guys like Tatum, Niehaus and Buchanan. I was just judging from the players that signed on signing day. Can't judge from on field yet just like you can't the 2017 class
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I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. If you are going on recruiting rankings, then they are the 14th ranked class. Just because you liked it doesn't give much reason to rank it higher.
 
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#72
#72
Dudleys87 said:
And yet he couldn't win with two top 10s prior.

And look where it finished as an SEC class: 7th

But please continue to buy that 5 star message
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What are you talking about? First most of those top 10s were on the sidelines in a walking boot or sling. Do you really think we go 9-4 without 20 injuries? Get real.
Second, nobody is arguing that this is a great class. You really are a troll
 
#73
#73
Dudleys87 said:
And yet he couldn't win with two top 10s prior.

And look where it finished as an SEC class: 7th

But please continue to buy that 5 star message
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#74
#74
McGeesPub said:
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. If you are going on recruiting rankings, then they are the 14th ranked class. Just because you liked it doesn't give much reason to rank it higher.
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I'm not arguing that. But we only took 20 guys and that class was loaded with 4 stars and 2, 5 stars. This year was, at least on the composite, all 3 stars with 4, 4 stars and 1 5. In just saying that on paper last years class was a really good class, but was on the smaller side. As has been said, average per player was the highest in the Butch era last year
 
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#75
#75
Dudleys87 said:
Just like you.

Keep believing though.
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At least I actually watch the games. I bet you loved that Hail Mary against VT to win the game, didn't you? Those 38 unanswered points to come from behind and beat Mizzou was awesome also weren't they?
 
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