Have any of your Biden voting friends

#151
#151
BowlBrother85 said:
That is not hypothetical speculation. It's based on what was contained in the peace agreement with the Taliban from February of 2020.
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Didn't trump reduce the number to 2500 before he left office.....which means that treating and recognizing the Taliban as political equals and showing them respect as long as they were respectful to our people worked...then Slo Jo decided he tried to be the Big Man and demand and changed things...and boom we are in the **** storm now..
 
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#152
#152
whodeycin85 said:
Didn't trump reduce the number to 2500 before he left office.....which means that treating and recognizing the Taliban as political equals and showing them respect as long as they were respectful to our people worked...then Slo Jo decided he tried to be the Big Man and demand and changed things...and boom we are in the **** storm now..
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Two primary conditions should have been placed on the withdrawal of U.S. forces in Afghanistan:

(1) The expulsion of al-Qaeda from Afghanistan. The reason we invaded in the first place, was because the Taliban was providing a safe-haven in Afghanistan to al-Qaeda terrorists, including Osama bin Laden, who had just attacked us on 9/11. Now, we are leaving on the heels of an al-Qaeda terrorist attack targeting Americans in Afghanistan. It sure doesn't seem like much was achieved the last 20 years. Yeah. bin Laden is dead... so there is that, I guess.

(2) Any attacks against the Afghan military, until U.S. forces and allied personnel had left Afghanistan, should have been met with an immediate nullification of the February 2020 agreement.
 
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#153
#153
BowlBrother85 said:
Two primary conditions should have been placed on the withdrawal of U.S. forces in Afghanistan:

(1) The expulsion of al-Qaeda from Afghanistan. The reason we invaded in the first place, was because the Taliban was providing a safe-haven in Afghanistan to al-Qaeda terrorists, including Osama bin Laden, who had just attacked us on 9/11. Now, we are leaving on the heels of an al-Qaeda terrorist attack targeting Americans in Afghanistan. It sure doesn't seem like much was achieved the last 20 years. Yeah. bin Laden is dead... so there is that, I guess.

(2) Any attacks against the Afghan military, until U.S. forces and allied personnel had left Afghanistan, should have been met with an immediate nullification of the February 2020 agreement.
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All of our forces had left or were pulled back to Kabul. And this is where Biden and his merry band of morons screwed the pooch.

But hey congratulations at least you have a Dem in the WH.
 
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#156
#156
BowlBrother85 said:
Wrong. We have an idea of what Trump wanted done, from the peace deal his administration signed with the Taliban in February of 2020. The Trump administration's agreement called for the United States to reduce its forces to 8,600 from 13,000 over the following three to four months, with the remaining U.S. forces withdrawing by no later than May 1, 2021. Biden extended this date to September 1, 2021.

Trump's negotiated agreement included very few concessions from the Taliban. Although the agreement bound the Taliban to halt attacks on U.S. and coalition forces, it did not explicitly require them to expel al-Qaeda from Afghanistan or to stop attacks on the Afghan military. The Trump administration's agreement provided legitimacy to the Taliban, whose leaders met with Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo.

Now, the Biden administration could have, and should have, nullified this agreement. I'm not for one second, defending the clumsy and hastily organized exodus orchestrated by Biden. I agree that Joe Biden, and his Secretary of State Blinken, do own this mess, for sure... but it is inaccurate for you to say that "we have no idea what strategy Trump would have engaged". The Trump strategy was outlined in that peace agreement, and it wasn't much different than Biden's.
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Not wrong. We have no idea if Trump would have evacuated embassy staff, American civilians, and allies before withdrawing troop support. That's where Biden screwed the pooch. You're making this about the Taliban when that's not what most are concerned with. Most are concerned with leaving so many American and ally lives at risk through sheer stupidity. You pull them first while they still have control of the country, THEN you pull the troops. If the Taliban takes control after that, it sucks, but it is what it is.

And you are defending Biden's ineptness with your "but Trump" clumsy and misplaced argument. Biden is the President. This has nothing to do with Trump. He agreed it was time for our troops to come home after 20 years, then proceeded to enact the most inept withdrawal plan since the fall of Saigon.

Trump's withdrawal strategy was not outlined in that peace agreement. It mentions nothing on how he planned to deal with American civilians and allies, only that he planned to have the troops withdrawn by a specific date. So it's sheer speculation on how he would have handled that. You are assuming he would have handled it poorly. We have no idea, nor will we ever know. All that we do know is Biden screwed up.
 
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#161
#161
Weezer said:
Not wrong. We have no idea if Trump would have evacuated embassy staff, American civilians, and allies before withdrawing troop support. That's where Biden screwed the pooch. You're making this about the Taliban when that's not what most are concerned with. Most are concerned with leaving so many American and ally lives at risk through sheer stupidity. You pull them first while they still have control of the country, THEN you pull the troops. If the Taliban takes control after that, it sucks, but it is what it is.

And you are defending Biden's ineptness with your "but Trump" clumsy and misplaced argument. Biden is the President. This has nothing to do with Trump. He agreed it was time for our troops to come home after 20 years, then proceeded to enact the most inept withdrawal plan since the fall of Saigon.

Trump's withdrawal strategy was not outlined in that peace agreement. It mentions nothing on how he planned to deal with American civilians and allies, only that he planned to have the troops withdrawn by a specific date. So it's sheer speculation on how he would have handled that. You are assuming he would have handled it poorly. We have no idea, nor will we ever know. All that we do know is Biden screwed up.
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There are many things we don't know, but as president, Donald Trump showed no reservations over abandoning our Kurdish allies in Northern Syria, during the withdrawal of U.S. forces in October of 2019. The Kurds were left to certain annihilation at the hands of Turkish aggressors. Did that concern Trump at all? It didn't appear to.

... and the peace agreement signed by the Trump administration and the Taliban in February of 2020 is highly relevant to this discussion and it gives insight into Trump's priorities. I understand why you don't want to talk about it... but it matters. The Trump administration should have demanded the expulsion of al-Qaeda be included as a term of the agreement. They did not. Of course, on this one item alone, Biden would have been justified in nullifying the February 2020 agreement with the Taliban... but he did not.

There is a lot of blame to go around, and the Trump administration shoulders some of it.
 
#162
#162
BowlBrother85 said:
There are many things we don't know, but as president, Donald Trump showed no reservations over abandoning our Kurdish allies in Northern Syria, during the withdrawal of U.S. forces in October of 2019. The Kurds were left to certain annihilation at the hands of Turkish aggressors. Did that concern Trump at all? It didn't appear to.

... and the peace agreement signed by the Trump administration and the Taliban in February of 2020 is highly relevant to this discussion and it gives insight into Trump's priorities. I understand why you don't want to talk about it... but it matters. The Trump administration should have demanded the expulsion of al-Qaeda be included as a term of the agreement. They did not. Of course, on this one item alone, Biden would have been justified in nullifying the February 2020 agreement with the Taliban... but he did not.

There is a lot of blame to go around, and the Trump administration shoulders some of it.
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But Turkey DIDN'T annihilate the Kurds and if I remember correctly isn't Turkey one of our NATO allies?
 
#164
#164
BowlBrother85 said:
There are many things we don't know, but as president, Donald Trump showed no reservations over abandoning our Kurdish allies in Northern Syria, during the withdrawal of U.S. forces in October of 2019. The Kurds were left to certain annihilation at the hands of Turkish aggressors. Did that concern Trump at all? It didn't appear to.

... and the peace agreement signed by the Trump administration and the Taliban in February of 2020 is highly relevant to this discussion and it gives insight into Trump's priorities. I understand why you don't want to talk about it... but it matters. The Trump administration should have demanded the expulsion of al-Qaeda be included as a term of the agreement. They did not. Of course, on this one item alone, Biden would have been justified in nullifying the February 2020 agreement with the Taliban... but he did not.

There is a lot of blame to go around, and the Trump administration shoulders some of it.
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or if that was a critical component Biden could have demanded it since he changed other terms of the agreement - clearly it wasn't that big a deal to him either (or both realized it wasn't gonna happen)
 
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#165
#165
evillawyer said:
Still riden with Biden. Choo choo mofos.
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hope you can swim

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#166
#166
hog88 said:
But Turkey DIDN'T annihilate the Kurds and if I remember correctly isn't Turkey one of our NATO allies?
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Yes, but I'm sure a smart guy like you is well-aware, that it is a complex relationship which can't be summed up by simply referring to them as an American NATO ally.

An example of how the U.S./Turkish relationship has grown strained to the point, where Turkey is an ally in name only, would be their purchase of Russian made missile defense systems, which led to U.S. imposed sanctions. Do allies often sanction one another?

Erdogan has made an already tense relationship much worse... but Trump really seemed to like the guy for some reason.
 
#167
#167
BowlBrother85 said:
Yes, but I'm sure a smart guy like you is well-aware, that it is a complex relationship which can't be summed up by simply referring to them as an American NATO ally.

An example of how the U.S./Turkish relationship has grown strained to the point, where Turkey is an ally in name only, would be their purchase of Russian made missile defense systems, which led to U.S. imposed sanctions. Do allies often sanction one another?

Erdogan has made an already tense relationship much worse... but Trump really seemed to like the guy for some reason.
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Erdogan always supplied the best hookers .... ;) that's why.
 
#173
#173
Rasputin_Vol said:
Its bad when even @lawgator1 is knocked off of his stride.



This is about as close as you are going to get to seeing a staunch liberal realize that winter is coming...
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They wanted Trump out so bad it was an anyone but him moment and now they are realizing what they have done. Hopefully this never happens again.
 
#175
#175
BowlBrother85 said:
Yes, but I'm sure a smart guy like you is well-aware, that it is a complex relationship which can't be summed up by simply referring to them as an American NATO ally.

An example of how the U.S./Turkish relationship has grown strained to the point, where Turkey is an ally in name only, would be their purchase of Russian made missile defense systems, which led to U.S. imposed sanctions. Do allies often sanction one another?

Erdogan has made an already tense relationship much worse... but Trump really seemed to like the guy for some reason.
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Well wait a minute, if I went back in time would I find posts from you criticizing Trump for alienating Turkey and our NATO allies? Would I find posts from you going on about how Trump was trying to destroy NATO and how we must have allies? Would I find any such posts of yours?
 
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