HBO's "Game of Thrones"

[VolNExile]

So, Bran, Sansa, Ghost, Sam, Tormund, Brienne etc. are all done and they just hang out at Winterfell to wait for news? I just feel like something must be happening at that end.

yepyepyepyepyepyepyep

 

[JCP201]

 

[kiddiedoc]

I don't think we've seen the last of Ghost. If so, that was sucky.

 

[VolNExile]

An ongoing cause of all this back-forth is (IMO) because viewers are hoping for and expecting certain results because of how they view and participate in this show, which IS fiction after all:

— some are completely immersed in the story, and the characters are very real to them, and they want to see some characters rewarded (survive) and others punished (killed.) If a character that they hate is killed, they feel validated, because for this one time, the good guys won. If one of their favorites is killed, they feel upset and betrayed. They have identified with various characters, and if things go badly for them, they are crushed. In my case, I generally identify with the little guys and the supporting cast, so I live and die by what happens (happened) to characters like Meera, the Hound, Jorah, Missandei, Varys, as well as to the poor schmucks just trying to survive who have been trampled into the mud throughout eternity by all the varied power-graspers. (This is a strong theme in GRRM’s books that doesn’t always get displayed on the show, other than by Tyrion, Dany, and Varys. It shows up a lot in Wheel of Time as well, IIRC.)

— others are viewing it as an intricately crafted and produced work of art, with interesting characters who aren’t real, just interesting. They want to see good drama, with consistent character development (including the occasional 180 turn that is supported by the plot), and they also know and accept that viewers are seduced into believing that one thing will happen, and then WHAM!, something comes out of left field, catching them completely by surprise. Instead of feeling upset, they are chortling with glee at getting fooled by the writers (or occasionally guessing right that this would happen.) If one of their favorites is killed off unexpectedly, it can be crushing for a moment (Nooooo!), but it’s otherwise appreciated as an example of good writing. I realize that everyone else on the planet saw it coming, especially since it was on the dang Season 7 poster, but when Viserion was hauled out of that frozen lake and opened an icy blue eye, I jumped about a foot up out of my chair and was completely gob-smacked. The writers said “gotcha”, and I thought it was great that they got me. To me, that was good writing. I wasn’t upset that a dragon died. Well, I was, but I understood how its death and transformation could make future episodes exciting. And so yes, I was devastated when Missandei showed up in chains (ever so slowly from the feet up; what a fantastic shot), knowing that she would die as a pawn in the Game of Thrones, but I’m ok with it, because this is how the story is moved forward!

So (again IMO) everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, and if someone’s reaction seems completely baffling, maybe it’s because they are just coming at GoT from a different angle than you.

A chacon son gout (expressed more musically as “Diif’rent Strokes for Diff’rent Folks”.)

eta: actual name of song is “Everyday People”

 

[VolNExile]

I don't think we've seen the last of Ghost. If so, that was sucky.

Something’s gonna happen at Winterfell.

And Nymeria is still a maybe player.

 

[jakez4ut]

An ongoing cause of all this back-forth is (IMO) because viewers are hoping for and expecting certain results because of how they view and participate in this show, which IS fiction after all:

— some are completely immersed in the story, and the characters are very real to them, and they want to see some characters rewarded (survive) and others punished (killed.) If a character that they hate is killed, they feel validated, because for this one time, the good guys won. If one of their favorites is killed, they feel upset and betrayed. They have identified with various characters, and if things go badly for them, they are crushed. In my case, I generally identify with the little guys and the supporting cast, so I live and die by what happens (happened) to characters like Meera, the Hound, Jorah, Missandei, Varys, as well as to the poor schmucks just trying to survive who have been trampled into the mud throughout eternity by all the varied power-graspers. (This is a strong theme in GRRM’s books that doesn’t always get displayed on the show, other than by Tyrion, Danny, and Varys. It shows up a lot in Wheel of Time as well, IIRC.)

— others are viewing it as an intricately crafted and produced work of art, with interesting characters who aren’t real, just interesting. They want to see good drama, with consistent character development (including the occasional 180 turn that is supported by the plot), and they also know and accept that viewers are seduced into believing that one thing will happen, and then WHAM!, something comes out of left field, catching them completely by surprise. Instead of feeling upset, they are chortling with glee at getting fooled by the writers (or occasionally guessing right that this would happen.) If one of their favorites is killed off unexpectedly, it can be crushing for a moment (Nooooo!), but it’s otherwise appreciated as an example of good writing. I realize that everyone else on the planet saw it coming, especially since it was on the dang Season 7 poster, but when Viserion was hauled out of that frozen lake and opened an icy blue eye, I jumped about a foot up out of my chair and was completely gob-smacked. The writers said “gotcha”, and I thought it was great that they got me. To me, that was good writing. I wasn’t upset that a dragon died. Well, I was, but I understood how its death and transformation could make future episodes exciting. And so yes, I was devastated when Missandei showed up in chains (ever so slowly from the feet up; what a fantastic shot), knowing that she would die as a pawn in the Game of Thrones, but I’m ok with it, because this is how the story is moved forward!

So (again IMO) everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, and if someone’s reaction seems completely baffling, maybe it’s because they are just coming at GoT from a different angle than you.

A chacon son gout (expressed more musically as “Diif’rent Strokes for Diff’rent Folks”.)

I also think those that have read the books struggle with tv version. I don't have that burden. Just entertain me!! Lol. Which this show has done, in spades.

 

[twoffo]

Something’s gonna happen at Winterfell.

It would seem to be relatively undefended with Jon and the Northern army gone.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

Ok, I can see how some may not have taken it the way I did..but..I still don't think that is what was intended in that scene.

I think Certs is like crack cocaine to Jaime. I totally get that as a former addict myself, he has a love/hate relationship with his addiction. If there is a conflict people are seeing in him, that is what it is. He is not going to flush the drugs, he is going to keep them from being flushed...He is going to get a fix, even if he hates himself for doing it.

As a former addict myself, you get so fed up with it at a certain point you just want to kill it yourself for some semblance of satisfaction. Regardless of how it ends. That's how I took that. To me it was Jaime saying: she's put me through hell so when I see her I may love her or I may kill her but for my own sake, I have to see what I'm made of once and for all.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

yepyepyepyepyepyepyep

So you're saying they will have something to do with the end?

 

[Charlie Kelly]

Something’s gonna happen at Winterfell.

And Nymeria is still a maybe player.

I don't disagree but why do you think that? And I respect the answer of "just a gut feeling" btw.

 

[Charlie Kelly]

yepyepyepyepyepyepyep

Oh don't be mean VNE: Expatiate bitte

 

[VolNExile]

So you're saying they will have something to do with the end?

I don't disagree but why do you think that? And I respect the answer of "just a gut feeling" btw.

Because as described in my tl;dr post above, I’m in the second group. I approach GoT as an intricately crafted work of fiction, and so I am always looking for the movements in the background that make things happen.

Sansa is a major character. I can’t see her schlepping around the castle, chopping wood and boiling water and pacing up and down the battlements, while the summation of the show occurs down south. (Unless the writers are so sick and tired of the whole thing that they’re just phoning it in, which would be incredibly disappointing but not the first time to happen.) Sam is up there, and why did he survive the Battle of Winterfell, especially when he was seen going down beneath a blanket of wights? He has a function in the overall plot/ story arc. What is it? And gee, there are Brienne and Tormund and a lot of random cannon fodder (the Free People) hanging around picking their teeth; why? Tormund said that he’d take the Free People home after the winter storms faded. Why not now and get them out of our awareness? Why the delay from a plot standpoint? Nothing happens without a reason, unless the writers have gotten sloppy, which is the concern of many viewers. (In the crypt scene at the Battle of Winterfell, why didn’t they explicitly show Lyanna’s tomb splitting open and her wight coming out? That would have been awesome and would have taken about 7 seconds.)

Ghost had been almost forgotten in the show. He was brought back, but why? He hasn’t done anything recently (hasn’t had a function in the crafted drama), so why pay the CGI dollars for nothing? Several minutes were spent on Jon’s non-farewell; what’s up with that? If it were going nowhere, why bother to shoot the scene?

My uncle was a career Army physician and hospital administrator, and wonderfully intolerant of Hollywood sentimentality. He always complained when, toward the end of a movie, strings (orchestra) appeared without warning. He called this “The End” music, and he was right - it always signaled the approaching end of the film.

I didn’t hear any “The End” music as everyone left Winterfell. Something’s up.


eta: and, of course, there’s Bran, doing whatever it is he’s doing @JCP201

 

[Charlie Kelly]

Because as described in my tl;dr post above, I’m in the second group. I approach GoT as an intricately crafted work of fiction, and so I am always looking for the movements in the background that make things happen.

Sansa is a major character. I can’t see her schlepping around the castle, chopping wood and boiling water and pacing up and down the battlements, while the summation of the show occurs down south. (Unless the writers are so sick and tired of the whole thing that they’re just phoning it in, which would be incredibly disappointing but not the first time to happen.) Sam is up there, and why did he survive the Battle of Winterfell, especially when he was seen going down beneath a blanket of wights? He has a function in the overall plot/ story arc. What is it? And gee, there are Brienne and Tormund and a lot of random cannon fodder (the Free People) hanging around picking their teeth; why? Tormund said that he’d take the Free People home after the winter storms faded. Why not now and get them out of our awareness? Why the delay from a plot standpoint? Nothing happens without a reason, unless the writers have gotten sloppy, which is the concern of many viewers. (In the crypt scene at the Battle of Winterfell, why didn’t they explicitly show Lyanna’s tomb splitting open and her wight coming out? That would have been awesome and would have taken about 7 seconds.)

Ghost had been almost forgotten in the show. He was brought back, but why? He hasn’t done anything recently (hasn’t had a function in the crafted drama), so why pay the CGI dollars for nothing? Several minutes were spent on Jon’s non-farewell; what’s up with that? If it were going nowhere, why bother to shoot the scene?

My uncle was a career Army physician and hospital administrator, and wonderfully intolerant of Hollywood sentimentality. He always complained when, toward the end of a movie, strings (orchestra) appeared without warning. He called this “The End” music, and he was right - it always signaled the approaching end of the film.

I didn’t hear any “The End” music as everyone left Winterfell. Something’s up.

I want to believe you but there are 180 minutes left in the show maximum. I'm not sure how they can tie everything together in that time. You're clever and that's why I like you, but I'm not sure these writers are going to do us justice. I sorely want them to bring all those characters back. Sansa deserves the North and Sam deserves to rule his homeland. The fact Jon never said goodbye to Ghost is really odd and the Tormund thing is weird too. At least you pay attention to the music like I do.

I would guess: Cersei dies, as does Dany, probably Tyrion and/or Varys too, Jon rejects his throne and does something (somewhat) unexpected like retiring to the Far North, Sansa rules the Traditional North, and as for the rest I'm not sure. Arya probably has something to do with Cersei's death. And the Hound kills his brother (FINALLY).

I don't blame Jon. If I were him I would have gone with Tormund in the last episode. F*** everyone else, we just saved them. Let me have my peace. Only a narcissistic moron would care about this stupid a** throne.

 

[Toujours Pret]

After everything he said to Brienne as he was leaving..about all the evil he had done just to get back to Certs..what in the world makes you believe he is going, "intending" to kill her? I agree he very well may be the one to kill her, I have thought for over a decade that he would be the one, but I don't see how anybody thinks he is leaving Winterfell intending to kill her.

Seems fairly clear to me...he knows what he needs to do to absolve himself of all he's done wrong.

 

[twoffo]

I didn’t hear any “The End” music as everyone left Winterfell. Something’s up

Unless the writers bring in something unknown you would figure one of the likely things that could happen would be for part of the Golden Company to be dispatched to the North to create complications for Dany.

One potential additional player that may aid Sansa would be Howland Reed, but I’m not sure that enough about House Reed has been exposed in the TV show to make any assistance they bring believable.

But perhaps that is what Bran was doing in episode two, when he worged in to the ravens, flying down to coordinate or communicate with House Reed.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

As a former addict myself, you get so fed up with it at a certain point you just want to kill it yourself for some semblance of satisfaction. Regardless of how it ends. That's how I took that. To me it was Jaime saying: she's put me through hell so when I see her I may love her or I may kill her but for my own sake, I have to see what I'm made of once and for all.

Good point

 

[JCP201]

Because as described in my tl;dr post above, I’m in the second group. I approach GoT as an intricately crafted work of fiction, and so I am always looking for the movements in the background that make things happen.

Sansa is a major character. I can’t see her schlepping around the castle, chopping wood and boiling water and pacing up and down the battlements, while the summation of the show occurs down south. (Unless the writers are so sick and tired of the whole thing that they’re just phoning it in, which would be incredibly disappointing but not the first time to happen.) Sam is up there, and why did he survive the Battle of Winterfell, especially when he was seen going down beneath a blanket of wights? He has a function in the overall plot/ story arc. What is it? And gee, there are Brienne and Tormund and a lot of random cannon fodder (the Free People) hanging around picking their teeth; why? Tormund said that he’d take the Free People home after the winter storms faded. Why not now and get them out of our awareness? Why the delay from a plot standpoint? Nothing happens without a reason, unless the writers have gotten sloppy, which is the concern of many viewers. (In the crypt scene at the Battle of Winterfell, why didn’t they explicitly show Lyanna’s tomb splitting open and her wight coming out? That would have been awesome and would have taken about 7 seconds.)

Ghost had been almost forgotten in the show. He was brought back, but why? He hasn’t done anything recently (hasn’t had a function in the crafted drama), so why pay the CGI dollars for nothing? Several minutes were spent on Jon’s non-farewell; what’s up with that? If it were going nowhere, why bother to shoot the scene?

My uncle was a career Army physician and hospital administrator, and wonderfully intolerant of Hollywood sentimentality. He always complained when, toward the end of a movie, strings (orchestra) appeared without warning. He called this “The End” music, and he was right - it always signaled the approaching end of the film.

I didn’t hear any “The End” music as everyone left Winterfell. Something’s up.

Also, there is Bran who knows all the secrets,,

Dany is not going to be happy that the news about Jon's birth will be out. She didn't trust Sansa anyway--she will figure how the others found out. She didn't just ask Jon not to tell, she begged.
They wouldn't all go into battle, but many were major players in the show and books. They have more story...

 

[tvolsfan]

I understand why you don't want it to happen. They've done such a good job crafting her character and making you love her. But at the same time, all of her losses, and now this with Jon, not to mention her own father going mad, they've given her good cause if she does end up slipping over the edge. It's not like a snap of a finger and she's lost her mind. They've built up to it through story. And that part of it I can appreciate.

I'm hoping for it at this point and I think it makes sense. I actually think it would be Thrones doing what it does best. People may not like it, but they've definitely been hinting at it for years. Some people have been predicting it for a while. It's just not a random turn for shock value.

 

[tvolsfan]

Hitting on one scene doesn't mean you're great.

This season has been pretty weak.

They do definitely need to stick the landing.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Because as described in my tl;dr post above, I’m in the second group. I approach GoT as an intricately crafted work of fiction, and so I am always looking for the movements in the background that make things happen.

Sansa is a major character. I can’t see her schlepping around the castle, chopping wood and boiling water and pacing up and down the battlements, while the summation of the show occurs down south. (Unless the writers are so sick and tired of the whole thing that they’re just phoning it in, which would be incredibly disappointing but not the first time to happen.) Sam is up there, and why did he survive the Battle of Winterfell, especially when he was seen going down beneath a blanket of wights? He has a function in the overall plot/ story arc. What is it? And gee, there are Brienne and Tormund and a lot of random cannon fodder (the Free People) hanging around picking their teeth; why? Tormund said that he’d take the Free People home after the winter storms faded. Why not now and get them out of our awareness? Why the delay from a plot standpoint? Nothing happens without a reason, unless the writers have gotten sloppy, which is the concern of many viewers. (In the crypt scene at the Battle of Winterfell, why didn’t they explicitly show Lyanna’s tomb splitting open and her wight coming out? That would have been awesome and would have taken about 7 seconds.)

Ghost had been almost forgotten in the show. He was brought back, but why? He hasn’t done anything recently (hasn’t had a function in the crafted drama), so why pay the CGI dollars for nothing? Several minutes were spent on Jon’s non-farewell; what’s up with that? If it were going nowhere, why bother to shoot the scene?

My uncle was a career Army physician and hospital administrator, and wonderfully intolerant of Hollywood sentimentality. He always complained when, toward the end of a movie, strings (orchestra) appeared without warning. He called this “The End” music, and he was right - it always signaled the approaching end of the film.

I didn’t hear any “The End” music as everyone left Winterfell. Something’s up.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

This is pretty out of left field, and likely not at all what I'd want to see....but who knows at this point.

What if Cersei "wins" in this next episode and the last episode is a confrontation with Sansa and what's left of the North near Winterfell?

 

[SLICKYINC]

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

This is pretty out of left field, and likely not at all what I'd want to see....but who knows at this point.

What if Cersei "wins" in this next episode and the last episode is a confrontation with Sansa and what's left of the North near Winterfell?

Not that far out of left field really. It is the last thing people expect, so it is probably what is going to happen. Kill off Dany and Jon and their crew, and then go to snuff out what is left of the Starks. That will suck massive balls if that's the way they go though, and I will never watch or read anything to do with GRRM again. It would mean basically every thing in the story to do with Jon and Dany was just a bunch of red herrings that meant nothing. I'm sure that will entertain the idiots though that think that is good storytelling..."just shock us".

 

[drvenner]

An ongoing cause of all this back-forth is (IMO) because viewers are hoping for and expecting certain results because of how they view and participate in this show, which IS fiction after all:

— some are completely immersed in the story, and the characters are very real to them, and they want to see some characters rewarded (survive) and others punished (killed.) If a character that they hate is killed, they feel validated, because for this one time, the good guys won. If one of their favorites is killed, they feel upset and betrayed. They have identified with various characters, and if things go badly for them, they are crushed. In my case, I generally identify with the little guys and the supporting cast, so I live and die by what happens (happened) to characters like Meera, the Hound, Jorah, Missandei, Varys, as well as to the poor schmucks just trying to survive who have been trampled into the mud throughout eternity by all the varied power-graspers. (This is a strong theme in GRRM’s books that doesn’t always get displayed on the show, other than by Tyrion, Dany, and Varys. It shows up a lot in Wheel of Time as well, IIRC.)

— others are viewing it as an intricately crafted and produced work of art, with interesting characters who aren’t real, just interesting. They want to see good drama, with consistent character development (including the occasional 180 turn that is supported by the plot), and they also know and accept that viewers are seduced into believing that one thing will happen, and then WHAM!, something comes out of left field, catching them completely by surprise. Instead of feeling upset, they are chortling with glee at getting fooled by the writers (or occasionally guessing right that this would happen.) If one of their favorites is killed off unexpectedly, it can be crushing for a moment (Nooooo!), but it’s otherwise appreciated as an example of good writing. I realize that everyone else on the planet saw it coming, especially since it was on the dang Season 7 poster, but when Viserion was hauled out of that frozen lake and opened an icy blue eye, I jumped about a foot up out of my chair and was completely gob-smacked. The writers said “gotcha”, and I thought it was great that they got me. To me, that was good writing. I wasn’t upset that a dragon died. Well, I was, but I understood how its death and transformation could make future episodes exciting. And so yes, I was devastated when Missandei showed up in chains (ever so slowly from the feet up; what a fantastic shot), knowing that she would die as a pawn in the Game of Thrones, but I’m ok with it, because this is how the story is moved forward!

So (again IMO) everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, and if someone’s reaction seems completely baffling, maybe it’s because they are just coming at GoT from a different angle than you.

A chacon son gout (expressed more musically as “Diif’rent Strokes for Diff’rent Folks”.)

eta: actual name of song is “Everyday People”

Great post.

 

[drvenner]

I also think those that have read the books struggle with tv version. I don't have that burden. Just entertain me!! Lol. Which this show has done, in spades.