Hey alleged Christians ....

#479
#479
a lot of people believe paul was a roman spy and taught pacifism to quell the uprising against the roman occupation
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#480
#480
sjt18 said:
Individual command.... not corporate nor a prohibition against war.

War is consistently treated differently throughout the Bible.

In the NT, we find examples of soldiers who converted but did not change careers.
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I don't believe in the concept of corporate action. All action is by individuals.

Couple of thoughts:

1) how do you know they did not subsequently change careers?

2) a) Remember what Jesus said about a house divided against itself?
b) Government is a minister of God (rom 13). If the govt of Egypt goes to war with the govt of Italy, then we have the minister of God fighting the minister of God. A house divided.
 
#481
#481
OrangeEmpire said:
u just said it......trying to figure out cherry picking.......
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Where you pick and choose which verses to follow and which ones don't apply anymore because of them being OT. For instance, anti-gay people use Leviticus to justify their homophobia but tend to ignore other verses, such as mixing of fabrics.
 
#482
#482
VOLatile said:
Where you pick and choose which verses to follow and which ones don't apply anymore because of them being OT. For instance, anti-gay people use Leviticus to justify their homophobia but tend to ignore other verses, such as mixing of fabrics.
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I don't know if you really care or not, you appear hostile, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give you the actual explanation.

First, the old law was given exclusively to Israel and never applied to gentiles like me and probably you. Jesus came and his death ended the time of the old law and the new law came into effect and it applies universally. We are not required to obey any of the old law. However, we are told that it exists for our instruction. We can learn from it, even though we are not bound by it. Some things that were permissible under it are no longer permissible. Some things that were forbidden by it are not longer forbidden. Other things are repeated in both laws. God's injunction against homosexuality is given under both laws.

jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

1 Timothy 1:8-11 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

Romans 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
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So a reference to Leviticus on the subject can be one that serves an educational purpose, even though it is not binding. However, the new law is binding.

There is no cherry picking if you apply proper hermeneutics. Now, you are quite correct that some people will just take the verses that support their position and ignore others. OE has accused me of doing just that. I have asked him which ones I have ignored, but he has not gotten back to me yet. Just remember, we are free to ignore any OT commandment. We are not free to ignore any NT commandment and you will see that most perceived cherry picking goes away.
 
#483
#483
VOLatile said:
Where you pick and choose which verses to follow and which ones don't apply anymore because of them being OT. For instance, anti-gay people use Leviticus to justify their homophobia but tend to ignore other verses, such as mixing of fabrics.
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u as in oe.....or u as in blanket statement
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#484
#484
RespectTradition said:
I don't believe in the concept of corporate action. All action is by individuals.

Couple of thoughts:

1) how do you know they did not subsequently change careers?

2) a) Remember what Jesus said about a house divided against itself?
b) Government is a minister of God (rom 13). If the govt of Egypt goes to war with the govt of Italy, then we have the minister of God fighting the minister of God. A house divided.
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For the sake of asking, holocaust victims had no biblical right to fight for their life?
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#485
#485
OrangeEmpire said:
For the sake of asking, holocaust victims had no biblical right to fight for their life?
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none.

The example of the first century christians, those taught directly by the apostles and presumably the ones with the most accurate knowledge, meekly allowed the romans to slaughter them. Killed in the coliseum, burned as torches to light the streets, etc. They refused to fight back. They ran, but they didn't resist. They serve as examples in case anyone misreads the bible. As Paul said in a passage I quoted earlier, nothing that anyone in this world can do can separate me from God. Death is not a thing to be feared. As Jesus said, don't fear the one who can destroy the body, fear the one who can destroy your soul.

Incidentally, the killing of christians by Nero caused a christian diaspora that caused the gospel to spread wider and faster than it otherwise would have. Even the evil perpetrated by Nero ultimately served God's purposes.
 
#486
#486
OrangeEmpire said:
u as in oe.....or u as in blanket statement
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I think he is trying to paint all, or at least most, christians as hypocrites.

The simple fact is, he is right. Most of us do pick and choose which parts we want to believe or obey.

The book tells us that narrow is the way and straight is the gate and few will enter therein. It also tells us that not every one who cries lord, lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, only those that obey the will of the father. Claiming it ain't enough. We gotta live it. All of it. Not just the easy parts.
 
#487
#487
RespectTradition said:
none.

The example of the first century christians, those taught directly by the apostles and presumably the ones with the most accurate knowledge, meekly allowed the romans to slaughter them. Killed in the coliseum, burned as torches to light the streets, etc. They refused to fight back. They ran, but they didn't resist. They serve as examples in case anyone misreads the bible. As Paul said in a passage I quoted earlier, nothing that anyone in this world can do can separate me from God. Death is not a thing to be feared. As Jesus said, don't fear the one who can destroy the body, fear the one who can destroy your soul.

Incidentally, the killing of christians by Nero caused a christian diaspora that caused the gospel to spread wider and faster than it otherwise would have. Even the evil perpetrated by Nero ultimately served God's purposes.
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dont agree one bit with u........but I understand your thought process
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#488
#488
OrangeEmpire said:
dont agree one bit with u........but I understand your thought process
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I understand, most people don't agree with me. Most of the people I go to church with don't agree with me. But I have to live and be judged on what I believe.

Romans 14
13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way. 14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another. 20 Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense. 21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles. 22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
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Just out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a christian?
 
#489
#489
Im saved and going to heaven, im strongly against the bible teaching pacifism.

Matt 5:38 thru 48 is a jewish idiom describing an insult of a backhand to the right cheek. the entire point of the passage is slander.

christ didnt turn his cheek john 18:22 thru 23 also reference romans 12:17 thru 21 and john 15:14

nothing personal or demeaning toward u, but to think you have no binlical right to protect yourself from harm, rape, murder is lunacy
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#490
#490
OrangeEmpire said:
Im saved and going to heaven, im strongly against the bible teaching pacifism.

Matt 5:38 thru 48 is a jewish idiom describing an insult of a backhand to the right cheek. the entire point of the passage is slander.

christ didnt turn his cheek john 18:22 thru 23 also reference romans 12:17 thru 21 and john 15:14

nothing personal or demeaning toward u, but to think you have no binlical right to protect yourself from harm, rape, murder is lunacy
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The funny thing is, I take all three of those passage to be examples of non-violence. In the first, we contrast the guard who lashes out with violence with calm verbal response from Christ. In the second, we are told to live in peace and if violence occurs it must be by others towards us, not the other way around (so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge). And the third one is defining what a christian is: those that follow His commands.

Not offended, but as for lunacy:
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,

1 Corinthians 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, “He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS”;
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#491
#491
Youll have to point out where any of thosr verses refer to anything resembling not protecting your life from harm. U are honestly fine with genocide?
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#492
#492
OrangeEmpire said:
Youll have to point out where any of thosr verses refer to anything resembling not protecting your life from harm. U are honestly fine with genocide?
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Sorry, those verses were about the idea that worldly thinking usually results in concluding that the word is foolishness, or lunacy, if you prefer.

I am totally against genocide. But I can't kill to prevent killing. Paul tells us that we can't do evil for good to come of it.
 
#494
#494
RespectTradition said:
Sorry, those verses were about the idea that worldly thinking usually results in concluding that the word is foolishness, or lunacy, if you prefer.

I am totally against genocide. But I can't kill to prevent killing. Paul tells us that we can't do evil for good to come of it.
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Lunacy, protecting my family from harm is an act of love, not evil.
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#500
#500
RespectTradition said:
I don't have to press charges, do I? Won't the police investigate whether I want them to or not?

I am CoC. How did you know? Most are not pacifists.
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do u press charges or not

easy, by the way you respond......jump from slander equaling pacifism.....similar by making the giant leap that baptism not christ saves someone
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