Holy Trinity Discussion

[bamawriter]

You have not answered anything.
And you never will because you might have to think outside your spoon fed dogma.

There was never anyone named Jesus. But there was a Yeshua who was the only begotten of the almighty G-d and he said that the law is the definition of sin and would remain that way until heaven and earth pass away.

Do you agree with him?

While I have mostly enjoyed your contributions to this thread, griping about the modern pronunciation and spelling of an ancient name in a different language that doesn't even utilize Latin script is pedantry of the highest order.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Explain to me why the Apocalypse of Peter should replace the chit book Hebrews.

Or tell me why you change words in scripture. That's a no no.

Lololol
Little Behr is mad again.
You poor thing. Go quit VN again till you calm down.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I'm not answering anymore of your questions because I've already answered them. Go ahead do your thing. I wasnt playing a game, i was just pointing out a mistake and here we are.

You never answered anything. Just hide behind deflection.
Run along little fella

 

[Orangeslice13]

While I have mostly enjoyed your contributions to this thread, griping about the modern pronunciation and spelling of an ancient name in a different language that doesn't even utilize Latin script is pedantry of the highest order.

Ya.
That’s personal between a twit and myself.
But if you want to have that conversation we can. I more or less give back what’s given to me. And you clearly don’t get butthurt over someone disagreeing with you.

So. There are many people in the Bible named Yeshua. All of them, except the Messiah, are translated Joshua. It’s interesting that they chose a different path for Messiah. Why do you suppose that is?

Let me tell you why it’s important. I’m Jewish. That’s well documented. And I have these conversations in reverse with people who practice Judaism. The first thing they say, almost without fail, is there was never anyone named Jesus. Forget that the letter J does not exist in any language till around the late 1500s. The reason it’s important is names mean things to Jews.
For example “you shall call his name Jesus for he will save his people from their sins” if they know anything about Christianity, this is what they point to. “Jesus” means nothing To a people looking for meaning.

However, “ Yeshua” means “YHWH is salvation”
By using his actual name you erase an error in context to an important people.

Ultimately does it matter to G-d or Messiah what name you use? Probably not. What matters is understanding who he is and what his existence means.

 

[Behr]

Lololol
Little Behr is mad again.
You poor thing. Go quit VN again till you calm down.

This is the same old behavior from you. You know I'm not mad not sure why you'd go this route. I guess that's better than calling me a racist or goat fawker. Lol.

 

[Orangeslice13]

This is the same old behavior from you. You know I'm not mad not sure why you'd go this route. I guess that's better than calling me a racist or goat fawker. Lol.

Ya you are.
You had nothing to say till you thought you had a “gotcha” you’ve never given any answers beyond what your preacher spoon feeds you.

So Rex,

What does Begotten mean?
Do you believe Yeshua when he says that the law will not pass away till heaven and earth do?
Is eating pork a sin?

And here’s a new one for you to ignore

Is sin evil?

 

[Orangeslice13]

It is funny that you refer to Rex because you’re acting just like him

 

[Behr]

Ya you are.
You had nothing to say till you thought you had a “gotcha” you’ve never given any answers beyond what your preacher spoon feeds you.

So Rex,

What does Begotten mean?
Do you believe Yeshua when he says that the law will not pass away till heaven and earth do?
Is eating pork a sin?

And here’s a new one for you to ignore

Is sin evil?

No I'm not but it really doesn't matter at this point.

I'm not answering the same questions I've answered before and explained why I believed what I did, only for you to get pissed because it's not what you believe then start the BS that you've already started here.

 

[Orangeslice13]

No I'm not but it really doesn't matter at this point.

I'm not answering the same questions I've answered before and explained why I believed what I did, only for you to get pissed because it's not what you believe then start the BS that you've already started here.

Lolol
Ok then
Bye

 

[bamawriter]

Ya.
That’s personal between a twit and myself.
But if you want to have that conversation we can. I more or less give back what’s given to me. And you clearly don’t get butthurt over someone disagreeing with you.

So. There are many people in the Bible named Yeshua. All of them, except the Messiah, are translated Joshua. It’s interesting that they chose a different path for Messiah. Why do you suppose that is?

Let me tell you why it’s important. I’m Jewish. That’s well documented. And I have these conversations in reverse with people who practice Judaism. The first thing they say, almost without fail, is there was never anyone named Jesus. Forget that the letter J does not exist in any language till around the late 1500s. The reason it’s important is names mean things to Jews.
For example “you shall call his name Jesus for he will save his people from their sins” if they know anything about Christianity, this is what they point to. “Jesus” means nothing To a people looking for meaning.

However, “ Yeshua” means “YHWH is salvation”
By using his actual name you erase an error in context to an important people.

Ultimately does it matter to G-d or Messiah what name you use? Probably not. What matters is understanding who he is and what his existence means.

Understood. I guess God must not have been too hung up on the pronunciation of the Messiah's name. After all, He allowed the Gospels to be written in Greek, and the name in Greek is pronounced like Yesoos.

And I appreciate where you're coming from. It's why I won't get worked up in discussing these topics with you. I'm far more likely to get frustrated with someone who claims to be a Christian and butchers scripture.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Understood. I guess God must not have been too hung up on the pronunciation of the Messiah's name. After all, He allowed the Gospels to be written in Greek, and the name in Greek is pronounced like Yesoos.

And I appreciate where you're coming from. It's why I won't get worked up in discussing these topics with you. I'm far more likely to get frustrated with someone who claims to be a Christian and butchers scripture.

I don’t get worked up about these things with you either.
I do enjoy conversations with people like yourself that have a different perspective. You have been a good resource for me and are thought provoking. I’ve been doing this for a long time too so that’s meant as a compliment.
You can imagine that as a Jew who believes that Yeshua is the messiah I have been a guy going my own way in search of truth for a long time. I find it humorous when someone says I’m just reading what I want into the “scriptures”. Yes there are clearly a lot of people like me and groupthink is clearly a problem. lol. From what I read I’m to refine by belief like silver in the fire so I regularly do that. In these conversations I heat my beliefs up and I beat them with a hammer the bad falls off and what is left it truth. A lot of people can’t handle that. When those people show up and act like turds then that’s what I give them back. I probably shouldn’t. It’s not healthy or helpful. It’s a “what you sew you reap” kinda thing. I enjoy that kinda debate as well. But that’s a different story. Again you say interesting things and I don’t remember you ever becoming butthurt so I treat you as a resource instead of a sparing partner. Lol

Speaking of …..some of the biggest meltdowns I’ve caused in these threads have been discussion about what is and isn’t scripture. What we accept now as the “bible” was voted on by a group of dudes. None of it was unanimous. Some of it was in or out by a single vote. To me that makes it worth reading and deciding for oneself. Giving that so many things wee added centuries after the fact like the snake handlers and poison drinkers of Mark that it almost should be a personal requirement for anyone seeking truth.

As far as the name thing goes….again, while that was a shot at one person from a previous conversation, it’s worth a little consideration. When Messiah returns I figure he’ll let everyone know what he wants to be called. It’s way more important to understand the truth of who he is and what that means than worrying about what version of his name someone prefers and why. Personally though I’m going with the name that’s as close to the one he’s given as a sign of respect and humility before him. The G-d that he represents and Begot him has a history of being really picky about his name. Deadly serious at times so maybe it is worth the contemplation. If you’re a fan of prophecy then you’ve spent some time on the potential “unknown name”.

Sorry, I tend to ramble with my morning coffee when someone makes a point I agree with.
Shalom.

 

[me_grag53]

Are you familiar with Kirt Schneider?

I don’t get worked up about these things with you either.
I do enjoy conversations with people like yourself that have a different perspective. You have been a good resource for me and are thought provoking. I’ve been doing this for a long time too so that’s meant as a compliment.
You can imagine that as a Jew who believes that Yeshua is the messiah I have been a guy going my own way in search of truth for a long time. I find it humorous when someone says I’m just reading what I want into the “scriptures”. Yes there are clearly a lot of people like me and groupthink is clearly a problem. lol. From what I read I’m to refine by belief like silver in the fire so I regularly do that. In these conversations I heat my beliefs up and I beat them with a hammer the bad falls off and what is left it truth. A lot of people can’t handle that. When those people show up and act like turds then that’s what I give them back. I probably shouldn’t. It’s not healthy or helpful. It’s a “what you sew you reap” kinda thing. I enjoy that kinda debate as well. But that’s a different story. Again you say interesting things and I don’t remember you ever becoming butthurt so I treat you as a resource instead of a sparing partner. Lol

Speaking of …..some of the biggest meltdowns I’ve caused in these threads have been discussion about what is and isn’t scripture. What we accept now as the “bible” was voted on by a group of dudes. None of it was unanimous. Some of it was in or out by a single vote. To me that makes it worth reading and deciding for oneself. Giving that so many things wee added centuries after the fact like the snake handlers and poison drinkers of Mark that it almost should be a personal requirement for anyone seeking truth.

As far as the name thing goes….again, while that was a shot at one person from a previous conversation, it’s worth a little consideration. When Messiah returns I figure he’ll let everyone know what he wants to be called. It’s way more important to understand the truth of who he is and what that means than worrying about what version of his name someone prefers and why. Personally though I’m going with the name that’s as close to the one he’s given as a sign of respect and humility before him. The G-d that he represents and Begot him has a history of being really picky about his name. Deadly serious at times so maybe it is worth the contemplation. If you’re a fan of prophecy then you’ve spent some time on the potential “unknown name”.

Sorry, I tend to ramble with my morning coffee when someone makes a point I agree with.
Shalom.

Are you familiar with Kirt Schneider?

 

[bamawriter]

Speaking of …..some of the biggest meltdowns I’ve caused in these threads have been discussion about what is and isn’t scripture. What we accept now as the “bible” was voted on by a group of dudes. None of it was unanimous. Some of it was in or out by a single vote. To me that makes it worth reading and deciding for oneself. Giving that so many things wee added centuries after the fact like the snake handlers and poison drinkers of Mark that it almost should be a personal requirement for anyone seeking truth.

Now this is an interesting subject, and one I'm much more comfortable with than the proper translation of Koine Greek.

The argument that the Bible as it exists was simply "voted on by a group of dudes," is modern revisionism. We know that a list of 27 books that is identical to the NT canon was produced at the Council of Rome (the Decree of Damasus), but there is no discussion of a vote. We have no idea to what extent there was unanimity, much less that "some of it was in or out by a single vote." And the Decree of Damasus isn't the first time that the NT canon as a list of 27 were published.

Given your back-and-forth with @Behr, I assume there's been some prior discussion on this subject that I've missed. So I'm not sure which books you think should or shouldn't be considered canonical.

As far as the name thing goes….again, while that was a shot at one person from a previous conversation, it’s worth a little consideration. When Messiah returns I figure he’ll let everyone know what he wants to be called. It’s way more important to understand the truth of who he is and what that means than worrying about what version of his name someone prefers and why. Personally though I’m going with the name that’s as close to the one he’s given as a sign of respect and humility before him. The G-d that he represents and Begot him has a history of being really picky about his name. Deadly serious at times so maybe it is worth the contemplation. If you’re a fan of prophecy then you’ve spent some time on the potential “unknown name”.

Sorry, I tend to ramble with my morning coffee when someone makes a point I agree with.
Shalom.

That makes sense.

 

[LouderVol]

now define “Begotten “ for us


You won’t understand that either

begotten wasn't the greek word used. Monogenes more closely translates to unique or one of a kind.

you have to break the one word Monogene into its two separate pieces to get "only one brought forth", the meaning of the combined word is different than its pieces.

"only begotten" was another King James adoption.

*all this with the caveat that I don't actually speak greek and am relying on others translations*

 

[Orangeslice13]

Are you familiar with Kirt Schneider?

Are you familiar with Kirt Schneider?

Yes
Both times.
Lol

What would you like to discuss.

Messiah was executed by the Romans for claiming to be king of the Jews. (Since you didn’t follow up on “Nope”

 

[OrangeTsar]

One God in three persons.

An apple has a peel, flesh, and a core. You can separate one from the others and lay them next to each other. Each one is still apple.

Yes, One God in Three Persons. But don’t use the Apple analogy. That is partialism.
Basically there is no analogy that can explain the Trinity. It is a mystery incomprehensible to the human mind. You just have to accept it on faith

 

[Orangeslice13]

Now this is an interesting subject, and one I'm much more comfortable with than the proper translation of Koine Greek.

The argument that the Bible as it exists was simply "voted on by a group of dudes," is modern revisionism. We know that a list of 27 books that is identical to the NT canon was produced at the Council of Rome (the Decree of Damasus), but there is no discussion of a vote. We have no idea to what extent there was unanimity, much less that "some of it was in or out by a single vote." And the Decree of Damasus isn't the first time that the NT canon as a list of 27 were published.

Given your back-and-forth with @Behr, I assume there's been some prior discussion on this subject that I've missed. So I'm not sure which books you think should or shouldn't be considered canonical.


That makes sense.

Sitting on a roof so….short answer.
Will enjoy this conversation and it’s not been had at any length that I’m aware of.
The Ethiopian cannon is very different than the traditional cannon we use. Some argue it’s because they never came under the authority of the Catholic Church so that too will be an interesting area for compare and contrast.

 

[OrangeTsar]

Ya.
That’s personal between a twit and myself.
But if you want to have that conversation we can. I more or less give back what’s given to me. And you clearly don’t get butthurt over someone disagreeing with you.

So. There are many people in the Bible named Yeshua. All of them, except the Messiah, are translated Joshua. It’s interesting that they chose a different path for Messiah. Why do you suppose that is?

Let me tell you why it’s important. I’m Jewish. That’s well documented. And I have these conversations in reverse with people who practice Judaism. The first thing they say, almost without fail, is there was never anyone named Jesus. Forget that the letter J does not exist in any language till around the late 1500s. The reason it’s important is names mean things to Jews.
For example “you shall call his name Jesus for he will save his people from their sins” if they know anything about Christianity, this is what they point to. “Jesus” means nothing To a people looking for meaning.

However, “ Yeshua” means “YHWH is salvation”
By using his actual name you erase an error in context to an important people.

Ultimately does it matter to G-d or Messiah what name you use? Probably not. What matters is understanding who he is and what his existence means.

I prefer the simple statement „I AM“. Something Christians and Jews can agree on. God is the Great I AM. He needs no other name really.
He is reality itself

 

[Orangeslice13]

Yes, One God in Three Persons. But don’t use the Apple analogy. That is partialism.

the 1-3 thing violates Torah. Specifically where it relates to the “kindsmen redeemer.”
Does it not just make more sense to take him at his word as only begotten of the most high? Without all the snake like conversation “did G-d say He was only one? No, what he meant was that he’s actually 3 and one both”

We’ve always been told in both Torah and the writings that G-d is not the author of confusion

 

[OrangeTsar]

I don’t get worked up about these things with you either.
I do enjoy conversations with people like yourself that have a different perspective. You have been a good resource for me and are thought provoking. I’ve been doing this for a long time too so that’s meant as a compliment.
You can imagine that as a Jew who believes that Yeshua is the messiah I have been a guy going my own way in search of truth for a long time. I find it humorous when someone says I’m just reading what I want into the “scriptures”. Yes there are clearly a lot of people like me and groupthink is clearly a problem. lol. From what I read I’m to refine by belief like silver in the fire so I regularly do that. In these conversations I heat my beliefs up and I beat them with a hammer the bad falls off and what is left it truth. A lot of people can’t handle that. When those people show up and act like turds then that’s what I give them back. I probably shouldn’t. It’s not healthy or helpful. It’s a “what you sew you reap” kinda thing. I enjoy that kinda debate as well. But that’s a different story. Again you say interesting things and I don’t remember you ever becoming butthurt so I treat you as a resource instead of a sparing partner. Lol

Speaking of …..some of the biggest meltdowns I’ve caused in these threads have been discussion about what is and isn’t scripture. What we accept now as the “bible” was voted on by a group of dudes. None of it was unanimous. Some of it was in or out by a single vote. To me that makes it worth reading and deciding for oneself. Giving that so many things wee added centuries after the fact like the snake handlers and poison drinkers of Mark that it almost should be a personal requirement for anyone seeking truth.

As far as the name thing goes….again, while that was a shot at one person from a previous conversation, it’s worth a little consideration. When Messiah returns I figure he’ll let everyone know what he wants to be called. It’s way more important to understand the truth of who he is and what that means than worrying about what version of his name someone prefers and why. Personally though I’m going with the name that’s as close to the one he’s given as a sign of respect and humility before him. The G-d that he represents and Begot him has a history of being really picky about his name. Deadly serious at times so maybe it is worth the contemplation. If you’re a fan of prophecy then you’ve spent some time on the potential “unknown name”.

Sorry, I tend to ramble with my morning coffee when someone makes a point I agree with.
Shalom.

Shalom to you as well. I continue to pray for the safety, prosperity, and well being of a very special people and faith.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I prefer the simple statement „I AM“. Something Christians and Jews can agree on. God is the Great I AM. He needs no other name really.
He is reality itself

We don’t though.
Jews have always believed that “I am” is his status. And “YHWH, the G-d of A, I, And J” is his name. Which, BTW is still considered Blasphemy for Yeshua to say if he’s not the only Begotten of G-d.

My understanding removes all the contradiction and confusion of trinity.
No I don’t think either of us will be “left out” for pursuit of this truth by drawing a different conclusion. (Not that my opinion matters)

 

[bamawriter]

Sitting on a roof so….short answer.
Will enjoy this conversation and it’s not been had at any length that I’m aware of.
The Ethiopian cannon is very different than the traditional cannon we use. Some argue it’s because they never came under the authority of the Catholic Church so that too will be an interesting area for compare and contrast.

I know the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has a more expansive and reordered Old Testament. But their New Testament is the same with their broader canon (Clement, 1 and 2 Covenant, etc) tacked on after Revelation.

 

[Orangeslice13]

begotten wasn't the greek word used. Monogenes more closely translates to unique or one of a kind.

you have to break the one word Monogene into its two separate pieces to get "only one brought forth", the meaning of the combined word is different than its pieces.

"only begotten" was another King James adoption.

*all this with the caveat that I don't actually speak greek and am relying on others translations*

Distinction with out a definitional difference.

There is only one G-d “the shema” and one begotten of G-d.
Distinct and one of a kind. But not 2 of a kind.

You’re well read. What argument do you have for the existence of the Holy Spirit?

My position is that the HS is simply G-d as G-d is spirit.

 

[GVF]

Ya you are.
You had nothing to say till you thought you had a “gotcha” you’ve never given any answers beyond what your preacher spoon feeds you.

So Rex,

What does Begotten mean?
Do you believe Yeshua when he says that the law will not pass away till heaven and earth do?
Is eating pork a sin?

And here’s a new one for you to ignore

Is sin evil?

No. Not in NT law. But, I know you know why I say that, and you know I have no issue with you refraining from pork.

But, here in the south, not eating bacon is borderline sinful.

 

[Orangeslice13]

No. Not in NT law. But, I know you know why I say that, and you know I have no issue with you refraining from pork.

But, here in the south, not eating bacon is borderline sinful.

I **** you not….i was going to tag you right now before going back to work