House formally apologizes for slavery and Jim Crow

[BigPapaVol]

If specific playing fields need to leveled to assure equal opportunity, then so be it.

So additional bias is going to make it all better?

Then we'll have to apologize in fifty more years to that slighted group.

 

[TennNC]

I'm a strong advocate of actually apologizing when I have done something wrong. Those are apologies made by those who perpetrated the wrong. I do that because I want someone to know that I was wrong or that it was unintentional.

How do you not see the difference in that and a useless apology by non-perpetrators of the wrongs?

You don't have to apologize. Nobody's telling you to apologize. The legislation is apologizing on behalf of the government. The record is noted for your stance, though, so when a black American says, "well, thanks for at least acknowledging that what white people did to us set us back a long way," you can reply, confidently, "oh, I didn't apologize. I personally didn't do anything wrong, so I really don't care one way or the other."

Your life might not be affected by slavery one iota. I know mine definitely has been, and I would offer up that any white Southerners with ancestors who lived in the Jim Crow south were too. To me, the least I can do is acknowledge this, own up to it, and ask what I could do to make amends.

 

[TennNC]

Sorry to interject but the critical point is defining "we". We in the present certainly didn't do it. I question whether I can apologize in the true sense of the word for something I did not do.

Did your ancestors ever own slaves? Do you think your social or economic or educational opportunities benefited from slavery or Jim Crow laws? If no, then that's fine I guess.

I don't believe we should accept the fruits of that injustice and not recognize that others suffered (and are still suffering) so that we can enjoy them.

 

[volinbham]

The legislation is apologizing on behalf of the government. ,

"well, thanks for at least acknowledging that what white people did to us set us back a long way,"

The legislation apologizes on behalf of the people of the U.S.

Personally, I see a difference in acknowledging mistakes in the past and apologizing. Maybe it's semantics but in my view, I can only truly apologize for something I did.

 

[volinbham]

Did your ancestors ever own slaves? Do you think your social or economic or educational opportunities benefited from slavery or Jim Crow laws? If no, then that's fine I guess.

I don't believe we should accept the fruits of that injustice and not recognize that others suffered (and are still suffering) so that we can enjoy them.

I just stated this but I'll put it with this particular comment.

Not apologizing is not the same as not acknowledging that mistakes were made by others and those mistakes have consequences. I fully recognize that slavery and Jim Crow were wrong and that they still have effects. I cannot apologize for that though.

 

[TennNC]

The legislation apologizes on behalf of the people of the U.S.

Personally, I see a difference in acknowledging mistakes in the past and apologizing. Maybe it's semantics but in my view, I can only truly apologize for something I did.

So, if I meet a young black American who has to work 3 jobs to put himself through school and won't catch up to me not b/c of a lack of effort but b/c he started out far, far behind me, and I find out that my great-great grandfather at one time owned his great-great grandfather, and that his ancestors couldn't vote or go to the same schools mine could, an apology isn't warranted? What then should I say to express my regret for what happened and the fact that he's worse off for it?

 

[TennNC]

I just stated this but I'll put it with this particular comment.

Not apologizing is not the same as not acknowledging that mistakes were made by others and those mistakes have consequences. I fully recognize that slavery and Jim Crow were wrong and that they still have effects. I cannot apologize for that though.

So if it's not called apologizing, what would you say or do to make amends for this injustice, even if it wasn't your fault? B/c it sounds like you're acknowledging that people like me have benefited from slavery and Jim Crow at others' expense.

 

[BigPapaVol]

You don't have to apologize. Nobody's telling you to apologize. The legislation is apologizing on behalf of the government. The record is noted for your stance, though, so when a black American says, "well, thanks for at least acknowledging that what white people did to us set us back a long way," you can reply, confidently, "oh, I didn't apologize. I personally didn't do anything wrong, so I really don't care one way or the other."

Your life might not be affected by slavery one iota. I know mine definitely has been, and I would offer up that any white Southerners with ancestors who lived in the Jim Crow south were too. To me, the least I can do is acknowledge this, own up to it, and ask what I could do to make amends.

And you called me naive.

As to the rest of the drivel, I bet the black community is awfully glad that you're around to hand them that apology and make amends. Whitey has demolished the lives of all black Americans everywhere and you and the gov't are going to make it alright. Congratulations, maybe this hollow effort will make you sleep better at night because you're just a better person than I am. That said, I suspect that the minorities who leave every two weeks with my signature on their paycheck are pretty comfortable without my apology, especially in this market where I could easily unemploy many of them. Wild guess here, but I'm thinking they're getting a lot more from my efforts than they are your pandering.

 

[BigPapaVol]

So, if I meet a young black American who has to work 3 jobs to put himself through school and won't catch up to me not b/c of a lack of effort but b/c he started out far, far behind me, and I find out that my great-great grandfather at one time owned his great-great grandfather, and that his ancestors couldn't vote or go to the same schools mine could, an apology isn't warranted? What then should I say to express my regret for what happened and the fact that he's worse off for it?

a hypothetical of similar nature likely exists for every single underachieving human on earth.

 

[Plano Vol]

So additional bias is going to make it all better?

Then we'll have to apologize in fifty more years to that slighted group.

My thoughts are more to programs to mainstream Indians on reservations if those programs do not exist and they desire help. Inner city schools probably need more help because of infrastructure needs, inability to secure qualified teachers, etc.

At what point does encouragment become indulgence? I don't know. But there will always be social issues that need addressing, be it black inner city youths or hard scrabble Applachian children.

I ain't apologizing for squat.....I bet the overwhelming view of the descendants of the oppressed are pretty happy to be citizens of the USA. So everyone needs to get over it.

I also resent the fact that for some, apologies are not enough and they will not be satisfied until every statue of a Confedrate soldier is torn down and every state is renamed for a civil rights activist.

 

[volinbham]

So if it's not called apologizing, what would you say or do to make amends for this injustice, even if it wasn't your fault? B/c it sounds like you're acknowledging that people like me have benefited from slavery and Jim Crow at others' expense.

I do acknowledge it but consider the term apology to be focused on acknowledging one's own mistakes or actions.

I honestly don't think I could make amends in any meaningful way. What could I do?

I can express regret that it happened but again that is semantically and definitionally different than apologizing.

How about this? Sorry it happened. Sorry if my great great great grandfather was involved. Is that an apology? If so, put me down for one. In my book that's not really an apology.

 

[TennNC]

That said, I suspect that the minorities who leave every two weeks with my signature on their paycheck are pretty comfortable without my apology, especially in this market where I could easily unemploy many of them. Wild guess here, but I'm thinking they're getting a lot more from my efforts than they are your pandering.

Bragging about one's efforts isn't relevant to the topic.

Using the term "minority" is only relevant if you're referring to descendants of people who were either enslaved or suppressed by Jim Crow-style laws. And the fact that you employ some African-Americans has nothing to do with what their ancestors went through, unless of course you made a special effort to reach out and help them out b/c of this injustice. By all means, you should be the poster child for making amends.

And perhaps some of them benefited from a program or legislation that intended to help them out before you even came along with your signatures.

 

[TennNC]

I do acknowledge it but consider the term apology to be focused on acknowledging one's own mistakes or actions.

I honestly don't think I could make amends in any meaningful way. What could I do?

I can express regret that it happened but again that is semantically and definitionally different than apologizing.

How about this? Sorry it happened. Sorry if my great great great grandfather was involved. Is that an apology? If so, put me down for one. In my book that's not really an apology.

Do you honestly think that's all you could do? Say I'm sorry? What about supporting the idea of taking a tiny % of your taxes to go toward job training or scholarship opportunities or other efforts to provide better opportunities to succeed? That kind of idea doesn't sound too popular on here.

 

[volinbham]

Do you honestly think that's all you could do? Say I'm sorry? What about supporting the idea of taking a tiny % of your taxes to go toward job training or scholarship opportunities or other efforts to provide better opportunities to succeed? That kind of idea doesn't sound too popular on here.

Those things are already happening. There are billions of tax dollars going towards the very thing you suggest. How much more should go?

To flip it around, does the act of Congress alone do anything. Isn't it simply saying "sorry".

If you read my original post in this thread you'll see I'm questioning the validity of an apology but acknowledge that if it helps some people feel better I don't have a problem with it.

 

[JTrainDavis]

Did your ancestors ever own slaves? Do you think your social or economic or educational opportunities benefited from slavery or Jim Crow laws? If no, then that's fine I guess.

I don't believe we should accept the fruits of that injustice and not recognize that others suffered (and are still suffering) so that we can enjoy them.

So what do you want? A Hug? Anyone who is descended from a planter should send you a portion of their savings because your ancestors may or may not have worked for the position they began life in?

The whole damned thing is ridiculous, i don't feel apologies are nessecary, as those were the ways of the world at the time. If it is determined that financial reparations are in order, then i stop paying federal taxes.

 

[JTrainDavis]

Do you honestly think that's all you could do? Say I'm sorry? What about supporting the idea of taking a tiny % of your taxes to go toward job training or scholarship opportunities or other efforts to provide better opportunities to succeed? That kind of idea doesn't sound too popular on here.

Well, that's discriminatory, isn't it? Wheres everyone elses % who has been wronged? Until Saint Barack plants the money trees, we can't afford such things!

 

[BigPapaVol]

Bragging about one's efforts isn't relevant to the topic.

Using the term "minority" is only relevant if you're referring to descendants of people who were either enslaved or suppressed by Jim Crow-style laws. And the fact that you employ some African-Americans has nothing to do with what their ancestors went through, unless of course you made a special effort to reach out and help them out b/c of this injustice. By all means, you should be the poster child for making amends.

And perhaps some of them benefited from a program or legislation that intended to help them out before you even came along with your signatures.

you keep thumping out hollow apologies and I'll keep employing them. Those working in my outfit are moving forward, those pining for your apologies will panhandle forever.
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[BigPapaVol]

Do you honestly think that's all you could do? Say I'm sorry? What about supporting the idea of taking a tiny % of your taxes to go toward job training or scholarship opportunities or other efforts to provide better opportunities to succeed? That kind of idea doesn't sound too popular on here.

this gets back to the lie I referenced earlier. The amount of money shoved into programs of this nature to help absolve whitey of any guilt associated ascendants' actions is unfathomable. The working nation has paid incredibly for this misplaced guilt and you're acting as if an incremental little bit is all it takes.

"It's only a small % and really just a token. You can afford it and I'm sure you want to because we might help just 1." Welcome to the hill, Dem congressman TennNC.
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[TennNC]

you keep thumping out hollow apologies and I'll keep employing them. Those working in my outfit are moving forward, those pining for your apologies will panhandle forever.
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"God, I admire you."

 

[TennNC]

That said, I suspect that the minorities who leave every two weeks with my signature on their paycheck are pretty comfortable without my apology, especially in this market where I could easily unemploy many of them.

I wonder if they are also pretty comfortable with you helping your client find cheaper labor in China instead of employing more people here in the United States.

 

[MG1968]

I wonder if they are also pretty comfortable with you helping your client find cheaper labor in China instead of employing more people here in the United States.

why should it be any concern of theirs? The jobs belong to the employer, not the prospective employee.

 

[BigPapaVol]

I wonder if they are also pretty comfortable with you helping your client find cheaper labor in China instead of employing more people here in the United States.

I would assume that they know, since I say it regularly, the day that someone else can do their jobs a reliably as they can with similr or less headaches, they'll cease to have thoe jobs. I know you don't like that the hard world out there forces economic choices, but it does. Get over it.
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[BigPapaVol]

"God, I admire you."

why? I haven't barked out a meaningless, whiny apology to anyone. Seems that's a big deal to you.
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[TIGER DEN]

I can get back to what I was doing now .

 

[iceman9]

When I was 13, I ogled at my neighbors wife, I humbly apologize