House formally apologizes for slavery and Jim Crow

#102
#102
TIGER DEN said:
Has any body talked to the Native Americans yet. :unsure:
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no, because the Indian voting block isn't as large as the black. maybe they'll address when we have a full or half blooded indian running for president.

the next on the list will be the mexicans, since we "took" their land in the mexican-American war. we'll have apologize for the Alamo, we'll apologize for putting up a fight. that apologywill be in 2012.
 
#103
#103
TennNC said:
You don't have to apologize. Nobody's telling you to apologize. The legislation is apologizing on behalf of the government. The record is noted for your stance, though, so when a black American says, "well, thanks for at least acknowledging that what white people did to us set us back a long way," you can reply, confidently, "oh, I didn't apologize. I personally didn't do anything wrong, so I really don't care one way or the other."

Your life might not be affected by slavery one iota. I know mine definitely has been, and I would offer up that any white Southerners with ancestors who lived in the Jim Crow south were too. To me, the least I can do is acknowledge this, own up to it, and ask what I could do to make amends.
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I have some questions for you. If, as you say, your life has been affected by slavery, and I presume you are a descendant of slaves, where do you think you would be and what opportunities would you have now if not for the very fact that those same slaves were brought to this country? What percentage of the black population in this country are directly descended from slaves? And how many would have what they have now if not for the evil white man bringing them over way back when? Would you have a computer, a car, a house with full utilities, easy access to health care and food? Probably not. You might just be in the jungle wondering if you're gonna kill something to eat today. Get over it already. Yes slavery was, is, and always shall be WRONG, but to sit back and piss and moan about the sins of the past without the first regard to the actual benefits of it are not only ignorant, but selfish. To think that slavery doesn't continue to exist anywhere in the world is also short-sighted. Better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness. Count your blessings sir. Be proud for the opportunities you and your children and grandchildren have because of the sacrifices of those before you. Wrongly treated yes, but the long term benefits are undeniable. Was there a better way to build this country back then? I am sure there was, but nobody alive today can do a damn thing about it.
 
#115
#115
superdave1984 said:
1) What percentage of the black population in this country are directly descended from slaves? 2) And how many would have what they have now if not for the evil white man bringing them over way back when? Would you have a computer, a car, a house with full utilities, easy access to health care and food? Probably not. You might just be in the jungle wondering if you're gonna kill something to eat today. Get over it already.
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Your lecture is entirely misplaced and full of errors, but I'll respond to a couple of crucial points.

1) Most

2) Are you suggesting you know what was better for those Africans centuries ago than they did? Are you suggesting they shouldn't have had the freedom to decide which country to live in, which lifestyle to pursue? Are you suggesting they weren't fulfilled before they became slaves? That only Americans live fulfilled lives?
 
#116
#116
Nope. I am suggesting that the opportunities that blacks in this country have would not be available to them had their ancestors not been brought here as slaves. I am suggesting that the number of black adults with an education would be substantially lower. The possibility also exits that if slavery had not happened and blacks had immigrated to this country like Europeans or Asians or whatever, they may not have had to go through the discrimination that they did. The fact that many of them choose to ignore those opportunities and instead whine that they are somehow victims of the unfair treatment of their ancestors is a serious problem within not only the black community, but our country as a whole. You don't have to be black to complain about your life now and blame it on something that happened years, even centuries ago. To quote Don Henley "You bitch about the present and blame it on the past. I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass. Get over it."
 
#117
#117
superdave1984 said:
Nope. I am suggesting that the opportunities that blacks in this country have would not be available to them had their ancestors not been brought here as slaves. I am suggesting that the number of black adults with an education would be substantially lower. The possibility also exits that if slavery had not happened and blacks had immigrated to this country like Europeans or Asians or whatever, they may not have had to go through the discrimination that they did. The fact that many of them choose to ignore those opportunities and instead whine that they are somehow victims of the unfair treatment of their ancestors is a serious problem within not only the black community, but our country as a whole. You don't have to be black to complain about your life now and blame it on something that happened years, even centuries ago. To quote Don Henley "You bitch about the present and blame it on the past. I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass. Get over it."
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With all due respect to Mr. Henley, I bet you a butt load of money that he would disagree with your use of his phrase "Get Over It" in this context. It has no place in this debate.

You don't abuse a child his entire life, then when he turns 14 tell him, "Okay, all's fair now, son. You're on your own. Get over it."

Jim Crow was in effect not 50 years ago. Many people living today were suppressed by those laws. Tell them how they should feel.

And why do you think one can't count his blessings and still fight for justice? What makes you think they're all just complaining and whining? What makes you think they're not in fact out there fighting as hard as they can for a better life? And what makes you think they're not still hitting significant roadblocks compared to their peers?

Should civil rights leaders have just accepted their situation - surely they should've just counted the blessings of living in America and "gotten over" slavery.
 
#118
#118
You make some valid points. I am not saying a 14 year old has the capacity to "get over it" nor am I condoning any kind of abuse. I see every day the people, black and white, who choose to complain about their lives instead of trying to do something about it. I see generations of families on welfare simply because they accept it as a way of life and are too lazy or too self-absorbed to go out and actually work to better themselves. They feel they are entitled to a living simply because they exist. And for those people that you speak of that are living today and affected by Jim Crow, they should feel free to take advantage of opportunities instead of like they deserve something for their suffering. They should feel like they have scored a victory for what is fair and won the freedom to make their own choices. They have an opportunity to improve their own lives and those of their children and grandchildren. Sure they can count their blessings and fight for justice. Just don't overlook the fact that it is up to the individual to make his own life better. It isn't the responsibility of the government or some special interest group. You are responsible for your own life.
 
#119
#119
TennNC said:
With all due respect to Mr. Henley, I bet you a butt load of money that he would disagree with your use of his phrase "Get Over It" in this context. It has no place in this debate.

You don't abuse a child his entire life, then when he turns 14 tell him, "Okay, all's fair now, son. You're on your own. Get over it."

Jim Crow was in effect not 50 years ago. Many people living today were suppressed by those laws. Tell them how they should feel.

And why do you think one can't count his blessings and still fight for justice? What makes you think they're all just complaining and whining? What makes you think they're not in fact out there fighting as hard as they can for a better life? And what makes you think they're not still hitting significant roadblocks compared to their peers?

Should civil rights leaders have just accepted their situation - surely they should've just counted the blessings of living in America and "gotten over" slavery.
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tell me again how the apology helps anyone move forward, while reminding everyone of the crutch that exists?
 
#120
#120
I saw a woman at Wal Mart this past weekend. She was ahead of us in the checkout line. The only reason I even noticed her was that she was arguing about the price of a bag of apples with a clerk. When she checked out she paid with, you guessed it a government EBT card. She had four kids and was very evidently pregnant with a fifth! This is the mentality that Superdave speaks of, the I don't need to be responsible because the government will take care of it. While this particular woman was not African American it still shows how irresponsible some people are. For too long many in African American community have fostered this you are not to blame, it's the governments fault attitude. While African Americans are not the only ones who have this problem many still use slavery as a crutch, especially the younger generation who have not been personally affected by slavery or Jim Crow laws.
 
#121
#121
KB5252 said:
I saw a woman at Wal Mart this past weekend. She was ahead of us in the checkout line. The only reason I even noticed her was that she was arguing about the price of a bag of apples with a clerk. When she checked out she paid with, you guessed it a government EBT card. She had four kids and was very evidently pregnant with a fifth! This is the mentality that Superdave speaks of, the I don't need to be responsible because the government will take care of it. While this particular woman was not African American it still shows how irresponsible some people are. For too long many in African American community have fostered this you are not to blame, it's the governments fault attitude. While African Americans are not the only ones who have this problem many still use slavery as a crutch, especially the younger generation who have not been personally affected by slavery or Jim Crow laws.
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wow. the transition from her issues to African Americans is awfully iffy.
 
#122
#122
BigPapaVol said:
wow. the transition from her issues to African Americans is awfully iffy.
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Maybe, but I think the issue here for many is just laziness, this particular woman obviously is happy having kids while letting the government pay for it. Many African Americans have the same problem as I see it. The older generation who lived under prejudice get a pass on it from me. The younger generation who never had to deal with those issues are just plain lazy and use history as a crutch.
 
#123
#123
KB5252 said:
Maybe, but I think the issue here for many is just laziness, this particular woman obviously is happy having kids while letting the government pay for it. Many African Americans have the same problem as I see it. The older generation who lived under prejudice get a pass on it from me. The younger generation who never had to deal with those issues are just plain lazy and use history as a crutch.
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The vast majority of African-Americans are as hard working as anyone.
 
#124
#124
superdave1984 said:
You make some valid points. I am not saying a 14 year old has the capacity to "get over it" nor am I condoning any kind of abuse. I see every day the people, black and white, who choose to complain about their lives instead of trying to do something about it. I see generations of families on welfare simply because they accept it as a way of life and are too lazy or too self-absorbed to go out and actually work to better themselves. They feel they are entitled to a living simply because they exist. And for those people that you speak of that are living today and affected by Jim Crow, they should feel free to take advantage of opportunities instead of like they deserve something for their suffering. They should feel like they have scored a victory for what is fair and won the freedom to make their own choices. They have an opportunity to improve their own lives and those of their children and grandchildren. Sure they can count their blessings and fight for justice. Just don't overlook the fact that it is up to the individual to make his own life better. It isn't the responsibility of the government or some special interest group. You are responsible for your own life.
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The abuse was just an analogy.

I agree in principle with the statement in bold. There's no greater factor in success, fulfillment, etc. than the individual.

But we still have a long way to go to allow their hard work to mean anywhere close to the same thing that "hard work" means to someone like me.

Just so you know where I'm coming from - I'm referencing people like my 10 and 11-yr-old little brothers (Big Bros/Sis program) who are so, so, so far behind where I was at their age, through no fault of their own. Most of the meals they eat come from their public school. They had different fathers - one was murdered a year and a half ago, another bolted before the kid ever met him. They go to a school where they're intimidated by other kids so much the teachers are more like prison guards. Translation - the "education" they're getting is virtually non-existent. They have a loving mother who tries her best to work 2 jobs to provide for them but is also trying her best not to lose her mind and can't always be there for them, a loving grandmother who is battling cancer and lives in a clean house in a not-so-safe neighborhood. They have cavities they can't clean and fill. If they're sick, they often don't get treated. They eat poorly. They don't read. They don't see and experience new things. Except for those weekly visits when we pick them up and hang out with them. But they need a heck of a lot more than that, more than we can give them.

Where does the cycle end for them and the millions just like them? I say we choose to support as many programs (like BB/BS, job training, health care, etc.) that try to give them the opportunity to choose another track. Right now, the track they're headed down doesn't look too promising.
 
#125
#125
BigPapaVol said:
tell me again how the apology helps anyone move forward, while reminding everyone of the crutch that exists?
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It's a frickin' apology - it's a way not to forget the tragedies that people endured for centuries. You fighting against it is as silly as me fighting against a 9-11 or WWII or Holocaust memorial, b/c hey, "It wasn't my fault. Just get over it, people."

I'd love you to explain to my 10 and 11 yr old little bros (see post above) how they shouldn't rely on any crutches like the meals at their school. Or the education they're not getting. Or the medical care they're not getting. Or the gangs recruiting them. Better yet, tell it to their single mother working 2 jobs to try to provide for them.
 
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