How can the talent debate even exist?

#27
#27
livefaith said:
Here's my report card. Not a real good story either ...
2009 report card ... D
Askew = 100% Bust
Edwards = Burger lover; left early
Gordon = 3* talent
Jackson = Stud; Loved weed > UT; left early
Jeffery = Bust
King = 3* w injuries
M-Thornton = 2* talent
Myles = S&P "BB rated"; gone
Nelson = 2* talent

2010 report card ... C-
Smith = 3* talent
Sapp = 3* overacheiver
Propst = 2* talent
Miller = Productive 4*
Loften = Sasquatch / Lochness monster
Jackson = bust
Crump = Met expectations
Clark = see above
Clark = 3* gone early
Brown = Gone early

2011 report card ...B-
Carson = Meeting expectations
Coleman = 3* talent
Couch = Told the truth
Harris = 2* talent
AJ = 4* Beast
Maggit = 4* injured
Martin = Recruited well then split
Moore = 3* talent
Orta = As expected
Randolph = 3.5* talent; injured
Saulsberry = Producer but injured
Williams = Consensus AA practice player

2012 report card ...C-
Bonner = Switched to a Mac
Bynum = 2*
Gray = Split town
Lewis = Future producer
McCullers = Productive
McNeil = 3* talent
Obrien = Future producer
Phillips = Gator envy
Sentimore = Ill advised career choice
Taylor = May produce

2013 report card ... I
Brown = TBD
Carr = 4* on schedule to produce
Jones = Injured
Miller = TBD
Sutton = 4* Producer
Vereen = Future stud
Vickers = TBD

... takes As and Bs to win in the SEC. We got work to do.
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this is alarming.......not sure we will not be forced to play a lot of the incoming freshmen on the defensive side immediately..........coaches are going to be forced to weigh out the increase in talent verses the lack of experience.
 
#28
#28
lack of speed was pretty obvious to me......how many talckles did AJ make last year on the sidelines 5 to 10 yards past the line of scrimmage.
 
#30
#30
VolFan4Life87 said:
Here's a look at defensive recruits over the last several years (per Rivals). Some of our offensive recruits may have shifted to D at one time or another (Vincent Dallas for example) and are not shown.

Recruiting wasn't exactly stellar, but it wasn't horrendous either. The problem is I've never heard of something like half of these young men, so that means they never developed talent-wise or left the team for various reasons.
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One 5 star recruit in 5 years says a lot.
 
#31
#31
Spartacavolus said:
Inferior talent can still win games. If it couldn't, there would be no upsets and Vegas wouldn't exist.
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true, add 2 wins still doesnt change the fact that we are still very slow......the more i look at the above posted defensive recruits coupled with the QB issues, i think Butch and staff did a pretty good job last year.
 
#32
#32
livefaith said:
Here's my report card. Not a real good story either ...
2009 report card ... D
Askew = 100% Bust
Edwards = Burger lover; left early
Gordon = 3* talent
Jackson = Stud; Loved weed > UT; left early
Jeffery = Bust
King = 3* w injuries
M-Thornton = 2* talent
Myles = S&P "BB rated"; gone
Nelson = 2* talent

2010 report card ... C-
Smith = 3* talent
Sapp = 3* overacheiver
Propst = 2* talent
Miller = Productive 4*
Loften = Sasquatch / Lochness monster
Jackson = bust
Crump = Met expectations
Clark = see above
Clark = 3* gone early
Brown = Gone early

2011 report card ...B-
Carson = Meeting expectations
Coleman = 3* talent
Couch = Told the truth
Harris = 2* talent
AJ = 4* Beast
Maggit = 4* injured
Martin = Recruited well then split
Moore = 3* talent
Orta = As expected
Randolph = 3.5* talent; injured
Saulsberry = Producer but injured
Williams = Consensus AA practice player

2012 report card ...C-
Bonner = Switched to a Mac
Bynum = 2*
Gray = Split town
Lewis = Future producer
McCullers = Productive
McNeil = 3* talent
Obrien = Future producer
Phillips = Gator envy
Sentimore = Ill advised career choice
Taylor = May produce

2013 report card ... I
Brown = TBD
Carr = 4* on schedule to produce
Jones = Injured
Miller = TBD
Sutton = 4* Producer
Vereen = Future stud
Vickers = TBD

... takes As and Bs to win in the SEC. We got work to do.
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wow, 2 or 3 busts coupled with injuries and some leaving the team a 9 rank class can suddenly drop to 35
 
#34
#34
Spartacavolus said:
Big Dan is invited to the combine. Mainly to be big and clog the middle. Otherwise, we have had no db's, lbs or dl invited to the combine in 2 years.
How do people overlook the lack of talent and speed? And act like its a non issue?

Nfl must think its more than angles, and the entire staff has discussed lack of speed.
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It exists because you keep bringing it up.

I don't think I've seen anyone post that we have the talent we need to be a top SEC team, so I'm not sure why you think there is an ongoing debate. However, you seem to want to blame it ALL on talent and lack of speed, when it's quite evident to some that the coaching has not made adjustments and taught better technique in certain games given the talent we have.
 
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#36
#36
IBlvNTmWrk said:
It exists because you keep bringing it up.

I don't think I've seen anyone post that we have the talent we need to be a top SEC team, so I'm not sure why you think there is an ongoing debate. However, you seem to want to blame it ALL on talent and lack of speed, when it's quite evident to some that the coaching has not made adjustments and taught better technique in certain games given the talent we have.
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It was great coaching in the S. Carolina game, but lack of talent in any other game we could have won

You have to get this stuff right
 
#38
#38
southgatevol said:
Do you think there was much of a talent gap between us and Vandy? Do you think there was a bigger gap between us and Georgia?
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Vandy we had more talent to start the game. When they lost their whole starting secondary to injury, they still seemed to beat us

Georgia was more talented in almost every aspect

Losing the Georgia game was expected, so UT almost winning and then losing in OT was hard, but not as bad as Vandy

No lack of talent argument holds water in the Vandy game. The staff **** the bed and its on them. Hopefully it was just one of those bad loses every coach suffers. But to try and lay blame on talent is ludicrous. Especially when this same team took Georgia to the wire and beat S. Carolina
 
#41
#41
IBlvNTmWrk said:
It exists because you keep bringing it up.

I don't think I've seen anyone post that we have the talent we need to be a top SEC team, so I'm not sure why you think there is an ongoing debate. However, you seem to want to blame it ALL on talent and lack of speed, when it's quite evident to some that the coaching has not made adjustments and taught better technique in certain games given the talent we have.
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There have been several that insist we didn't lack speed due to listed 40 times for recruits and that better angles was a bigger factor than speed.

Since you brought it up, what techniques are you referring to?
 
#42
#42
CountVolcula said:
It was great coaching in the S. Carolina game, but lack of talent in any other game we could have won

You have to get this stuff right
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Do you realize football is played game to game? Sometimes you play well and get the breaks and sometimes you don't. We got them against SC and a block in the back bringing back a td cost us the vandy game.
And quit being such a wuss about the vandy game. We got beat. They were better. You sound like a guy that lost his first gf and won't stfu about it.
 
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#44
#44
Spartacavolus said:
Do you realize football is played game to game? Sometimes you play well and get the breaks and sometimes you don't. We got them against SC and a block in the back bringing back a td cost us the vandy game.
And quit being such a wuss about the vandy game. We got beat. They were better. You sound like a guy that lost his first gf and won't stfu about it.
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Stop making excuses for the lose and I'll stfu
 
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#46
#46
Spartacavolus said:
There have been several that insist we didn't lack speed due to listed 40 times for recruits and that better angles was a bigger factor than speed.

Since you brought it up, what techniques are you referring to?
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I brought it up because you seemingly can't comprehend what most are saying about the defense... and your post above is just another example of that.

  1. There have not been several to "insist" we didn't lack speed
  2. What most have said is that it has not been solely the "lack of speed" that resulted in some of the losses... coaching was not up to par in those games
  3. Yes... if your speed is slightly slower than the other teams then better angles definitely makes a difference
  4. Having your kickoff team learn to fill their gaps is definitely more important than speed, and it was evident on many of the long returns against us this year... but you can continue to blame only our lack of speed.
  5. One of the players who most posters praised for his special teams play (JRM), by your definition lacks speed... and yet he found ways to make plays.

You should quit trying to make this a debate because you seem to be the only one who thinks "speed" is the only issue.
 
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#47
#47
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I brought it up because you seemingly can't comprehend what most are saying about the defense... and your post above is just another example of that.

  1. There have not been several to "insist" we didn't lack speed
  2. What most have said is that it has not been solely the "lack of speed" that resulted in some of the losses... coaching was not up to par in those games
  3. Yes... if your speed is slightly slower than the other teams then better angles definitely makes a difference
  4. Having your kickoff team learn to fill their gaps is definitely more important than speed, and it was evident on many of the long returns against us this year... but you can continue to blame only our lack of speed.
  5. One of the players who most posters praised for his special teams play (JRM), by your definition lacks speed... and yet he found ways to make plays.

You should quit trying to make this a debate because you seem to be the only one who thinks "speed" is the only issue.
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-I don't have problem comprehending anything you are pointing out. You aren't smart enough to make that happen
-There have been plenty that listed 40 times as proof that we have speed. If you missed the threads and posts, go read for yourself.
-I haven't said anything about coaching being great or even good. Troll somebody else with that one.
-you'll see the speed difference on special teams this year. Instead of 4th string dbs like orta, or walkons like Max Arnold trying to fill lanes and stop faster players, we will have speed to make the plays. If you don't think speed is the biggest difference maker in ST's, you don't know the game as well as you think you do. We had 3 guys in their lanes in front of the aub pr and he just ran in between them. They were in their lanes, but just too slow to make a play.
-JRM is a downhill player that plays with great closing speed on the field. Noone has said differently.
-I have never said speed is the only factor. Go troll somebody else with that one too, or just make up something else since you can't follow.

Still waiting for your football lesson on techniques. You said coaches weren't coaching proper techniques. Yet you still can't even give one example. Teach us.
 
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#48
#48
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I brought it up because you seemingly can't comprehend what most are saying about the defense... and your post above is just another example of that.

  1. There have not been several to "insist" we didn't lack speed
  2. What most have said is that it has not been solely the "lack of speed" that resulted in some of the losses... coaching was not up to par in those games
  3. Yes... if your speed is slightly slower than the other teams then better angles definitely makes a difference
  4. Having your kickoff team learn to fill their gaps is definitely more important than speed, and it was evident on many of the long returns against us this year... but you can continue to blame only our lack of speed.
  5. One of the players who most posters praised for his special teams play (JRM), by your definition lacks speed... and yet he found ways to make plays.

You should quit trying to make this a debate because you seem to be the only one who thinks "speed" is the only issue.
Click to expand...
I do not think speed is the only issue, but if you think it wasn't a major problem with this defense, maybe you are the one having a problem comprehending. Coaching was at times an issue without a doubt. Defensively, speed was the biggest issue.
 
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#49
#49
CountVolcula said:
If we had won the Georgia and Vandy games, you guys wouldn't be making the no talent excuse

That's why its being discussed
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Not true. The Oregon, Alabama, and Auburn games in particular clearly defined our distinct lack of talent and team speed for me.

We all but had Georgia beaten despite the talent discrepancy and we lost the Vandy game due to a poor gameplan and horrific performance by the anyone affiliated with the passing game.

Whether we had won either doesn't change the fact that we were in the bottom 3rd in the SEC in terms of talent.
 
#50
#50
southgatevol said:
I do not think speed is the only issue, but if you think it wasn't a major problem with this defense, maybe you are the one having a problem comprehending. Coaching was at times an issue without a doubt. Defensively, speed was the biggest issue.
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coaches and players make mistakes. Speed makes up for them.
 
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