How Did Louisville Get More D Talent Than UT?

[sjt18]

What changes from season to season is your team, and the teams you play. Trying to compare last year and this year is pointless. Louisville and UT had a common opponent. The scores were polar opposites. They won a blowout. We lost a blowout. Disgree all you like. Then watch the games and get a dose of reality. We have little to no defensive talent. Louisville has enough to throttle Florida.

UT returned just about every contributor from Wilcox's last UT D. Points allowed doubled. Yards allowed went up obscenely. So you are saying basically the same players with one more year of maturity and physical development became LESS talented? Sorry. I simply don't buy that.

 

[SaintLouisVol]

Sal had more size, strength, and speed on his defense than Wilcox had the previous two years.

Evidently Wilcox can coach SPEED and Sal can uncoach SPEED.

Exactly.

If you have a 4.4 40YD corner covering a 4.8 40YD receiver, and the corner bites on the ball fake and gets sucked in allowing the receiver to get just five yards past him, it will take the 4.4 guy about 40 yards to catch him if they are both running at a dead sprint.

On the other hand, a well-coached 4.8 corner can give a 4.4 receiver a five-yard pad at the line of scrimmage, turn and sprint with him on a fly route and it takes about forty yards for the receiver to get any measurable distance between the two.

Elite athleticism makes good players great. It makes great players amazing. But, it will never make a bad player good.

 

[sjt18]

Bad players on D for UT got beaten badly two years in a row (2011, 2012). Scoreboard is THE stat of importance. Check it out the last two years.

I have. Have you?

'12:

ppg- 35.7
ppg vs SEC- 40
Games allowing over 35 pts- 8
Games over 50 pts- 2
Games allowing under 20 pts- 2
Best game vs FBS- 21 (NCSU in 1st game)

'11:

ppg- 22.6
ppg vs SEC- 27.8
Games over 35 pts- 3
Games over 50 pts- 0
Games under 20- 6
Best game vs FBS- 0 vs MTSU


There is simply no way you can lay that on "talent" when only two contributors were lost.

 

[RichRollin]

i have. Have you?

'12:

Ppg- 35.7
ppg vs sec- 40
games allowing over 35 pts- 8
games over 50 pts- 2
games allowing under 20 pts- 2
best game vs fbs- 21 (ncsu in 1st game)

'11:

Ppg- 22.6
ppg vs sec- 27.8
games over 35 pts- 3
games over 50 pts- 0
games under 20- 6
best game vs fbs- 0 vs mtsu


there is simply no way you can lay that on "talent" when only two contributors were lost.

boom

 

[RichRollin]

AJ is vastly overrated. Curt is legit. Sentimore and Couch are decent, but not bigtime. Big Dan is a keeper. Byron Moore blew more picks than he made this year. Overall, I will take Louisville's defensive effort over ours against Florida.

You do know Sentimore was at Bama before JUCO don't you, and would have been a starter this year at Bama had grades not been an issue. Look at the offer lists of the guys you are slamming. These were big time recruits until Sal got ahold of them. AJ over rated, LOL. Whatever dude.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

UT returned just about every contributor from Wilcox's last UT D. Points allowed doubled. Yards allowed went up obscenely. So you are saying basically the same players with one more year of maturity and physical development became LESS talented? Sorry. I simply don't buy that.

Wilcox's defense lost every important game too. In a pressure, man-to-man scheme (like Sal's), one mistake means a big play. In Wilcox's two-deep, mistakes (which were plenty) are more readily masked. Same result. Bad defense.

 

[DjCrenshaw]

probably should have gave DC to Lance

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

I have. Have you?

'12:

ppg- 35.7
ppg vs SEC- 40
Games allowing over 35 pts- 8
Games over 50 pts- 2
Games allowing under 20 pts- 2
Best game vs FBS- 21 (NCSU in 1st game)

'11:

ppg- 22.6
ppg vs SEC- 27.8
Games over 35 pts- 3
Games over 50 pts- 0
Games under 20- 6
Best game vs FBS- 0 vs MTSU


There is simply no way you can lay that on "talent" when only two contributors were lost.

To run a man scheme, you need individual playmakers. Who is that for UT?
That is therefore a lack of talent.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Not to belabor the point but Lathers can't run. He just can't! And PWag is good for an interception every now and again but he's not a shutdown corner. I'll give you A.J. and a healthy Curt Maggit.

My question is why can other teams beat UF but we perpetually wet the bed. Ole Miss has done it. Miss St did it at the peak of Tebow. USC 2yrs running, and now LV.

We need players.

UF did not seem very interested in playing football the other night. They should/could beat UL by 21 points if they had wanted to play. Florida reminded me of Tennessee when we played Clemson in the Peach Bowl a few ears ago. Neither showed up for the game.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

So if we had the same talent and say....Brian Kelly coaching instead of Dooley and Sal, do you think we could have beaten UF or some other teams? It's coaching.

Coaching is a big part, but you don't win very many football games with lesser talent than the team you are playing.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

You do know Sentimore was at Bama before JUCO don't you, and would have been a starter this year at Bama had grades not been an issue. Look at the offer lists of the guys you are slamming. These were big time recruits until Sal got ahold of them. AJ over rated, LOL. Whatever dude.

Sentimore would still be at Bama if he could have helped them. There are some solid players on D. But nothing remotely close to a first round pick though. No pass rush whatsoever. 1 decent run stopper. AJ can't cover. Lathers can't. Sapp can't. Our corners (Wag, Teague, and Coleman) can't cover. Not much talent at all.

 

[RichRollin]

probably should have gave DC to Lance

I nominate PimpVol. But seriously, I agree with you. The whole letting Lance go for Sal is a perfect example of Dooley over thinking/micromanaging. Let's not keep it simple and move the guy who's been with these players and runs a similar scheme. Let's hire the Bama LB coach who replaced the Bama LB coach who is on our staff. Confusing, I know.

 

[DjCrenshaw]

I nominate PimpVol. But seriously, I agree with you. The whole letting Lance go for Sal is a perfect example of Dooley over thinking/micromanaging. Let's not keep it simple and move the guy who's been with these players and runs a similar scheme. Let's hire the Bama LB coach who replaced the Bama LB coach who is on our staff. Confusing, I know.

Gave up lance for randy shannon, only to get saled on.

 

[RichRollin]

Sentimore would still be at Bama if he could have helped them. There are some solid players on D. But nothing remotely close to a first round pick though. No pass rush whatsoever. 1 decent run stopper. AJ can't cover. Lathers can't. Sapp can't. Our corners (Wag, Teague, and Coleman) can't cover. Not much talent at all.

No, he would be at Bama if it weren't for grades. Why don't you go look at the offer lists of these guys and explain why they had big time offers? You are the only person I've ever came across who thinks AJ Johnson isn't a good player. We had a lot of guys who were in their first year in the system, and the System sucked. A lot of youth in the two deep. And I actually think losing Brewer and Prentiss will help.

Sal's defense was the defensive version of the Clawfense. You do realize Arian Foster had 1200 yds the season prior to Clawson don't you? After Clawson he didn't even get drafted. He's now arguably the best back in the NFL, top 5 for sure. That's EXACTLY what happened with our defensive guys this year. Sentimore, McCullars, Couch, AJ, Maggitt, Moore, ALL had big time offers. As did several of our DBs, they were just young and stuck playing for Sal.

 

[RichRollin]

Gave up lance for randy shannon, only to get saled on.

Nice avi

 

[SaintLouisVol]

Coaching is a big part, but you don't win very many football games with lesser talent than the team you are playing.

According to Rivals, Tennessee out-recruited Mississippi State, Missouri and Vanderbilt for the last four years.

What happened?

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

No, he would be at Bama if it weren't for grades. Why don't you go look at the offer lists of these guys and explain why they had big time offers? You are the only person I've ever came across who thinks AJ Johnson isn't a good player. We had a lot of guys who were in their first year in the system, and the System sucked. A lot of youth in the two deep. And I actually think losing Brewer and Prentiss will help.

Sal's defense was the defensive version of the Clawfense. You do realize Arian Foster had 1200 yds the season prior to Clawson don't you? After Clawson he didn't even get drafted. He's now arguably the best back in the NFL, top 5 for sure. That's EXACTLY what happened with our defensive guys this year. Sentimore, McCullars, Couch, AJ, Maggitt, Moore, ALL had big time offers. As did several of our DBs, they were just young and stuck playing for Sal.

AJ is bad in coverage. Not a guy who is going to blow up a blocker and make a tackle either. But if it is third and 4 and the back has ran for 8 yards, AJ will make a tackle. Better at running back than linebacker.

 

[RichRollin]

AJ is bad in coverage. Not a guy who is going to blow up a blocker and make a tackle either. But if it is third and 4 and the back has ran for 8 yards, AJ will make a tackle. Better at running back than linebacker.

Everything you mentioned can be fixed with coaching. Why did AJ have so many big time offers? Care to explain that?

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

According to Rivals, Tennessee out-recruited Mississippi State, Missouri and Vanderbilt for the last four years.

What happened?

Miss St. -- Terrible coverage gave them easy pass plays. Especially the 3rd and 16 & their last score that killed us.

Missouri -- Terrible coverage combined with only 7 second half points. They began to move it on our 3 deep look in the second half. We had nothing else to go to after that (imagine that, with all this "talent" on D).

Vanderbilt -- Terrible everything. And Bray was, well, Bray.

 

[Ned Ray McWorkher]

Everything you mentioned can be fixed with coaching. Why did AJ have so many big time offers? Care to explain that?

Explain an offer list? Right.....

 

[SaintLouisVol]

Miss St. -- Terrible coverage gave them easy pass plays. Especially the 3rd and 16 & their last score that killed us.

Missouri -- Terrible coverage combined with only 7 second half points. They began to move it on our 3 deep look in the second half. We had nothing else to go to after that (imagine that, with all this "talent" on D).

Vanderbilt -- Terrible everything. And Bray was, well, Bray.

Well, if you can't recruit "talent," and you can't coach it, where can we get us some of that there "talent?" 'Cause it seems we need it! :yes:

 

[RichRollin]

Explain an offer list? Right.....

Yeah, explain why major schools would want a slouch of a player.

 

[sjt18]

Wilcox's defense lost every important game too. In a pressure, man-to-man scheme (like Sal's), one mistake means a big play. In Wilcox's two-deep, mistakes (which were plenty) are more readily masked. Same result. Bad defense.

I posted the results... not the same AT ALL.

What was VERY different was UT's O. Wilcox got MUCH less support than Sal did. Fewer pts. A much worse run game. Worse 3rd down conversions. Fewer first downs. Fewer rushing 1st downs (indicator of ball control).

Wilcox D was mediocre. Sal's was horrible. With a mediocre D... the '12 Vols are an 8 or 9 win team minimum.

 

[sjt18]

To run a man scheme, you need individual playmakers. Who is that for UT?
That is therefore a lack of talent.

Umm.... so the DC has to know he doesn't have dominating CB's.... and sticks with a man scheme anyway... and that makes it the players' fault?

And I don't even buy that answer either. You are just grasping now because the numbers completely refute what you are claiming. They were put in positions to fail by their DC's schemes and playcalling. They didn't get coached up.

When UT goes back to a 4-3/two deep base this year, their defensive numbers are going to improve and probably by alot.

 

[RichRollin]

I posted the results... not the same AT ALL.

What was VERY different was UT's O. Wilcox got MUCH less support than Sal did. Fewer pts. A much worse run game. Worse 3rd down conversions. Fewer first downs. Fewer rushing 1st downs (indicator of ball control).

Wilcox D was mediocre. Sal's was horrible. With a mediocre D... the '12 Vols are an 8 or 9 win team minimum.

All are valid points. I'd like to have seen the overall performance of Wilcoxes D with this years O as well. He's not gonna own up to any factual info. He's got it in his head that every player on our defense is MAC quality. Although a large number of them have big boy offers.