How Gundy almost became coach at UT

[Oskie Volum]

I was 100% behind Dooley when he was hired and I did the exact same thing I'm doing now with CBJ--- called for patience while he implements his system, gets his recruits in, all that stuff, which is very reasonable. Clay Travis here locally in Nashville said he was on the hotseat after his first year and I thought he was both unfair and insane.

As I've stated before, I hung in there with Dooley until the Missouri game when I finally opened my eyes fully and prepared myself for his firing. Which, in hindsight, was both fully earned and deserved on his part.

We got a 3 year sample of Dooley and it was arguably the worst 3 year stretch of UT football ever, certainly within the last 75 years or so. He won 42% of his games and a grand freaking total of 3 SEC games in 3 years, lost to Ky and got blown out by Vandy. UT under Dooley recorded back to back losing for the first time in 100 years!

We also found out that he was derelect in his duties regarding the recruitment of several big name recruits, and his relationships with high school coaches throughout the state.

Not being hypocritical at all. Hypocritical will be if I don't have the same criticisms of CBJ as I do of Dooley if he has the same pathetic track record. And I can assure you that if he fails to the extent that Dooley did I will.

Oh I see...so the fact that the UTAD and the football program were fresh into complete disarray when he started as coach had nothing to do with anything. Ok got it. Now I see where u r coming from. Don't agree with u but to each their own.

 

[Roustabout]

Gundy is a great coach. But if he left his alma mater what does that say about the guy. See Rich Rod.
Not saying he wouldnt do well at UT, just that everything worked out.

 

[BigBadVol]

Anyone that thinks Dooley wasn't given a fair chance is a moron. After hearing how the high school coaches talk about the arrogance of Dooley, how could anyone still support the guy? On recruiting day, Dooley said he had not seen any film on Von Bell, the top recruit in the state. What? He wasn't doing his job and he sucked as a head coach.

 

[KBVol]

What I think u r having trouble understanding is that if CBJ doesn't have a 7+ win season the perception of his abilities may not be looked at positively. Therefore, it can keep him back on the recruiting trail. He needs to have a great season so he can catch the momentum in the right direction. Otherwise he can be easy pickings by the best recruiters in the country bad mouthing him, especially adding The Legion of the Miserable. It's not that difficult to understand what it takes to get UT out of the hole it's in, and giving him a pass in his first yr isn't going to help.


What you're having trouble understanding, among many, many other things,is I'm calling for patience for CBJ (like I did for Dooley) for several reasons....

1. Does not have an SEC championship type roster, to say the least. First year qb, very little experience at WR, average rbs on offense. Limited DL and LB depth, and I surely don't need to say anything about the DBs coming off last years performance do I? Oh wait, forgot who I was talking to. Last years DBs, God bless em, were not very good, actually historically bad, due mainly to the facts they were a little slow by SEC standards and Dooleys brilliant hire of Sal Sunseri as DC and his uncanny ability to confuse them and virtually ensure they were always out of position

2. He has to install completely new offensive and defensive systems, which, apparently unbeknownst to you, typically takes a little time.

3. He has to completely change the Culture of losing that was so thoroughly embedded into the program by your hero, your coach of the year candidate, Derek Dooley. If you don't think so, how about you ask Ja'Wan James who said there was a complete lack of leadership on the team last year. A lack of leadership tends to equal a culture of losing in most every organization I've been a part of. No different here.

Finally, for its worth, I think CBJ will overcome the immense barriers your boy Dooley left him and find a way to win 7-8 games this year. However, if I see the great improvement in attitude, coaching and discipline on the the field that I expect to see, I, unlike guys like you, will not be calling for his job if he doesn't get to that win total.

 

[tim]

Anyone that thinks Dooley wasn't given a fair chance is a moron. After hearing how the high school coaches talk about the arrogance of Dooley, how could anyone still support the guy? On recruiting day, Dooley said he had not seen any film on Von Bell, the top recruit in the state. What? He wasn't doing his job and he sucked as a head coach.

Save your breath. People have given him example after example..Its just not sinking in

 

[Oskie Volum]

Mods, could we start an "I still love Dooley" subforum, just for Oskie Volum, so he can hold court whenever he likes about how unfairly the only coach in UT history to post 3 straight losing seasons was treated?

I will still come around to other threads my friend. Nice try though :good!:

I love how the actual pt of my post went over KBs and urs head.

Side note: funny thing is if my schedule works out as planned and I'm able to make the Oregon game and we were to meet somewhere we'd most likely get along. I've always been told that I'm "that guy" that is just impossible to hate.

 

[KBVol]

Oh I see...so the fact that the UTAD and the football program were fresh into complete disarray when he started as coach had nothing to do with anything. Ok got it. Now I see where u r coming from. Don't agree with u but to each their own.

No, no, no! Why can't you see this? He came into a bad situation after Kiffin, had a lot to change, a lot to repair. Did a decent job in some areas, but at the end of the day, actually at the end of 3 full seasons, the program had fewer wins than when he got there! He freakin got blown out by F-ing Vanderbilt to cap off a 3rd consecutive losing season Oskie! I didn't expect him to win a National Championship after 3 years..... But I don't think it was too much to ask that the team improve in some kind of way, which it did not! The program has lost a tremendous amount of prestige due to the failures of the last 3 years... That's not even remotely arguable, at least not by reasonable people.

Now CBJ has every bit as bad a mess to clean up as Dooley had. Lets see what he does with it.... we know what Dooley did with his- not much.

 

[KBVol]

Mods, could we start an "I still love Dooley" subforum, just for Oskie Volum, so he can hold court whenever he likes about how unfairly the only coach in UT history to post 3 straight losing seasons was treated?

That's a not a good idea Oregon. No, it's a GREAT IDEA! Where do I sign the petition?

 

[KBVol]

I will still come around to other threads my friend. Nice try though :good!:

I love how the actual pt of my post went over KBs and urs head.

Side note: funny thing is if my schedule works out as planned and I'm able to make the Oregon game and we were to meet somewhere we'd most likely get along. I've always been told that I'm "that guy" that is just impossible to hate.

None if your post went over my head Oskie. None of it. I simply addressed what I thought were the relevant parts.

I'm sure youre a good guy, don't mean to imply otherwise. I don't hate anything or anyone (although Vandy and our current president do push me at times). We just fundamentally disagree on some things... a lot of things. I'm just arguing my points, you're doing the same for yours. I actually enjoy the back and forth, although you and I should clearly just agree to disagree.

At the end of the day, I'm a UT guy, always have been, always will be. I hope and suspect you are too.

 

[oregonvol]

I will still come around to other threads my friend. Nice try though :good!:

I love how the actual pt of my post went over KBs and urs head.

Side note: funny thing is if my schedule works out as planned and I'm able to make the Oregon game and we were to meet somewhere we'd most likely get along. I've always been told that I'm "that guy" that is just impossible to hate.

Nice idea, but unfortunately, I no longer live in Oregon.

I'm sure we'd get along though. I really don't hate anybody here. Just some folks' perspectives I find impossible to comprehend.

 

[butchna]

Oh I see...so the fact that the UTAD and the football program were fresh into complete disarray when he started as coach had nothing to do with anything. Ok got it. Now I see where u r coming from. Don't agree with u but to each their own.

If Cheeks,Hamilton and company were suiting up and starting maybe...but Coach Dooley closed a very good first class and did add some talent in his next two I believe....coaches coach..and no one puts a rating of upper management in the footnotes of a coach's resume...you recruit players you can teach and coach up and when you face less talented teams such as Mizzou and Vandy...you beat them.... then you keep your job.. Dooley wasn't fired for losing to Bama 3x Georgia 3x USCe 3x or presiding over a snafu against LSU...he beats Vandy and Mizzou and he's our coach...again...that's upper management?
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[Oskie Volum]

What I think u r having trouble understanding is that if CBJ doesn't have a 7+ win season the perception of his abilities may not be looked at positively. Therefore, it can keep him back on the recruiting trail. He needs to have a great season so he can catch the momentum in the right direction. Otherwise he can be easy pickings by the best recruiters in the country bad mouthing him, especially adding The Legion of the Miserable. It's not that difficult to understand what it takes to get UT out of the hole it's in, and giving him a pass in his first yr isn't going to help.


What you're having trouble understanding, among many, many other things,is I'm calling for patience for CBJ (like I did for Dooley) for several reasons....

1. Does not have an SEC championship type roster, to say the least. First year qb, very little experience at WR, average rbs on offense. Limited DL and LB depth, and I surely don't need to say anything about the DBs coming off last years performance do I? Oh wait, forgot who I was talking to. Last years DBs, God bless em, were not very good, actually historically bad, due mainly to the facts they were a little slow by SEC standards and Dooleys brilliant hire of Sal Sunseri as DC and his uncanny ability to confuse them and virtually ensure they were always out of position

2. He has to install completely new offensive and defensive systems, which, apparently unbeknownst to you, typically takes a little time.

3. He has to completely change the Culture of losing that was so thoroughly embedded into the program by your hero, your coach of the year candidate, Derek Dooley. If you don't think so, how about you ask Ja'Wan James who said there was a complete lack of leadership on the team last year. A lack of leadership tends to equal a culture of losing in most every organization I've been a part of. No different here.

Finally, for its worth, I think CBJ will overcome the immense barriers your boy Dooley left him and find a way to win 7-8 games this year. However, if I see the great improvement in attitude, coaching and discipline on the the field that I expect to see, I, unlike guys like you, will not be calling for his job if he doesn't get to that win total.

Response to each pt:

1. So Dooley was left an SEC roster? A QB with SEC experience?...please tell me his name. Thx. Many say Sunseri was pushed onto Dooley by Hart, so prove it was "his hire" solely with no other influences. Maybe it was is hire after not being able to get who he wanted. Ie Steele after the bowl game debacle.

2. Soooooooo Dooley didn't have new schemes to insert from scratch?? Last I checked last spring he said the OL and running game would be significantly better and IMO it was. Difference between Dooley's beginning and CBJs is that Dooley had to build the program back up from the bottom of the barrel not with it 3/4s+ full at the least. When highly regulated like cfb is it takes a lot more time to do that. Especially in the sec. Like u said it takes time. Its harder to make your first million dollars than ur second and so on. Lots of trails and tribulations, errors made in adjustments, and steps back hoping for strides forward etc etc etc in making that first million which is why it takes time and patience. Toughest part is finding the positive in all the negatives.

3. So the culture left Dooley was of winning?? 3rd coach in 3 yrs? That's a great cultural to build on I see. James' comment is nothing new. Everyone knew there were leadership issues for yrs. Yes it's the coaches to help encourage it but players have thier part in it and there weren't enough players stepping up. Bray wasn't a leader and he was the QB. That's not on Dooley but the way he just is. Dooleys true first class recruits were still underclassman last yr, so it takes time. Now they r the leaders, and would have been under Dooley. Yes they lost but they still had fight in them which shows much to me...not u but again to each there own.


What immense barriers does CBJ have to climb....is the NCAA on campus, does he have AD on his last breath, does he have a team full of prima-donnas, does he have to take over the responsibilities of completing the new football facilities, does he have to win over a team full of players that have seen the firing of a legendary coach who brought them in and then burned by the likes of Kiffin and all his premaddona recruits...???

Dooley stop recruiting when he knew he was gone b/c his boss didn't come out and back him up. Would u continue to recruit in that case?? Go into kids home and lie to their face and parents?? Burnt bridges with TN HS coaches is a big barrier?? The coaches of historically the least talented group in the SEC?? The same coaches that would get on the ground to lick other coaches feet for a chance at them coming to their school?? U r going to go with those guys over the direct word and love from one of our players mother?? I dont. Coaches have themselves to look out for and own agendas. At he end of the day it isnt hard to get them to love the new guy cause he isn't the old guy. Are these the "immense barriers" CBJ is having to climb?? Just wondering that's all...

 

[Oskie Volum]

If Cheeks,Hamilton and company were suiting up and starting maybe...but Coach Dooley closed a very good first class and did add some talent in his next two I believe....coaches coach..and no one puts a rating of upper management in the footnotes of a coach's resume...you recruit players you can teach and coach up and when you face less talented teams such as Mizzou and Vandy...you beat them.... then you keep your job.. Dooley wasn't fired for losing to Bama 3x Georgia 3x USCe 3x or presiding over a snafu against LSU...he beats Vandy and Mizzou and he's our coach...again...that's upper management?
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So Dooley didn't recruit and coach up the OL that is pretty much an nfl line next yr?? Sooooo players have no affect on games themselves either in games? Let's be honest Bray threw in the towel for the Vandy game to seal up Dooley's fate unless u saw a different game let me know. Why do people think just based off our history we should automatically beat a team like mizzou. They arent bottom feeders, and have a lot of talent and a solid coach.

Well noted to u upper mgmt has no posi/neg affect on anything. Got it :good!:

 

[Roustabout]

Save your breath. People have given him example after example..Its just not sinking in

Yep,
i'm amazed at how many people supported Dooley early on. My first thoughts were, 'they've hired Goober Pyle."
I don't think I ever once believed that Dooley had the qualities to be the coach. And that was before learning of his ego and various neurosis.
Was it a tough situation? Sure. The roster was depleted. But recruiting to UT at the time was not like selling snow to an Eskimo. No one expected him to win big early on. For every positive there was an equal negative. What is amazing is that despite Dooley, kids still wanted to play at UT. That's because it is a freakin awesome job. Despite the many years of Fulmerites who convinced everyone that he was the only one who could recruit nationally. Jones will show what a moderately competent coach can do when given the resources.

 

[butchna]

So Dooley didn't recruit and coach up the OL that is pretty much an nfl line next yr?? Sooooo players have no affect on games themselves either in games? Let's be honest Bray threw in the towel for the Vandy game to seal up Dooley's fate unless u saw a different game let me know. Why do people think just based off our history we should automatically beat a team like mizzou. They arent bottom feeders, and have a lot of talent and a solid coach.

Well noted to u upper mgmt has no posi/neg affect on anything. Got it :good!:

Sooooooooooooo....you take opposing points of view, clamp on like a pit bull and by the time you're finished shaking the S out of it and slobbering all over it, there is no resemblance to the intended point...ok?
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[KBVol]

Response to each pt:

1. So Dooley was left an SEC roster? A QB with SEC experience?...please tell me his name. Thx. Many say Sunseri was pushed onto Dooley by Hart, so prove it was "his hire" solely with no other influences. Maybe it was is hire after not being able to get who he wanted. Ie Steele after the bowl game debacle.

2. Soooooooo Dooley didn't have new schemes to insert from scratch?? Last I checked last spring he said the OL and running game would be significantly better and IMO it was. Difference between Dooley's beginning and CBJs is that Dooley had to build the program back up from the bottom of the barrel not with it 3/4s+ full at the least. When highly regulated like cfb is it takes a lot more time to do that. Especially in the sec. Like u said it takes time. Its harder to make your first million dollars than ur second and so on. Lots of trails and tribulations, errors made in adjustments, and steps back hoping for strides forward etc etc etc in making that first million which is why it takes time and patience. Toughest part is finding the positive in all the negatives.

3. So the culture left Dooley was of winning?? 3rd coach in 3 yrs? That's a great cultural to build on I see. James' comment is nothing new. Everyone knew there were leadership issues for yrs. Yes it's the coaches to help encourage it but players have thier part in it and there weren't enough players stepping up. Bray wasn't a leader and he was the QB. That's not on Dooley but the way he just is. Dooleys true first class recruits were still underclassman last yr, so it takes time. Now they r the leaders, and would have been under Dooley. Yes they lost but they still had fight in them which shows much to me...not u but again to each there own.


What immense barriers does CBJ have to climb....is the NCAA on campus, does he have AD on his last breath, does he have a team full of prima-donnas, does he have to take over the responsibilities of completing the new football facilities, does he have to win over a team full of players that have seen the firing of a legendary coach who brought them in and then burned by the likes of Kiffin and all his premaddona recruits...???

Dooley stop recruiting when he knew he was gone b/c his boss didn't come out and back him up. Would u continue to recruit in that case?? Go into kids home and lie to their face and parents?? Burnt bridges with TN HS coaches is a big barrier?? The coaches of historically the least talented group in the SEC?? The same coaches that would get on the ground to lick other coaches feet for a chance at them coming to their school?? U r going to go with those guys over the direct word and love from one of our players mother?? I dont. Coaches have themselves to look out for and own agendas. At he end of the day it isnt hard to get them to love the new guy cause he isn't the old guy. Are these the "immense barriers" CBJ is having to climb?? Just wondering that's all...

Oskie, you're killing me. You're starting your responses with assumptions based on comments I didn't make. For example, I never said Dooley came in with a QB with SEC experience. He didn't. But I don't care about what he had. At the end of 3 years he was a colossal failure as the head coach of UT. This fact is inarguable. Again, 41% winning rate, 3 SEC wins in 3 years, 3 losing seasons, left a lot of holes regarding talent and depth, left a losing culture, lost national prestige, all of that.

I listed CBJs obstacles, all of which are legitimate, left from Dooleys regime, as a reason for why we should be patient with the team's record early on. That's all. This does not mean, as you say, that im saying Dooley didnt have obstacles too, cause he did, as I've freely admitted earlier.

And again, if CBJ runs his program as dismally and as unsuccessfully as Dooley did after 3 years as coach, he will get his own set of criticisms in the way that Dooley has gotten his. Book that! At least Butch has a record of winning which Dooley never did.

 

[KBVol]

Yep,
i'm amazed at how many people supported Dooley early on. My first thoughts were, 'they've hired Goober Pyle."
I don't think I ever once believed that Dooley had the qualities to be the coach. And that was before learning of his ego and various neurosis.
Was it a tough situation? Sure. The roster was depleted. But recruiting to UT at the time was not like selling snow to an Eskimo. No one expected him to win big early on. For every positive there was an equal negative. What is amazing is that despite Dooley, kids still wanted to play at UT. That's because it is a freakin awesome job. Despite the many years of Fulmerites who convinced everyone that he was the only one who could recruit nationally. Jones will show what a moderately

Hell to the damn well yeah. Very well said Roust. Only I must admit I was in the Dools camp for 2.5+ years. I beg forgiveness.

 

[KBVol]

Sooooooooooooo....you take opposing points of view, clamp on like a pit bull and by the time you're finished shaking the S out of it and slobbering all over it, there is no resemblance to the intended point...ok?
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Very well said like only you can say it Butch. Style AND substance.

 

[KBVol]

So Dooley didn't recruit and coach up the OL that is pretty much an nfl line next yr?? Sooooo players have no affect on games themselves either in games? Let's be honest Bray threw in the towel for the Vandy game to seal up Dooley's fate unless u saw a different game let me know. Why do people think just based off our history we should automatically beat a team like mizzou. They arent bottom feeders, and have a lot of talent and a solid coach.

Well noted to u upper mgmt has no posi/neg affect on anything. Got it :good!:

It's ultimately Dooleys job to get the best effort and attitude out of his team and his individual players. Bray did quit and was a bit of a head case but Dools shares in the responsibility for his poor performance.

Btw, you want to see how it's done? Ask Ainge about how Cutcliffe handled him and how he got him turned around when he returned as OC. Didnt coddle him, he busted up in his face, got his attention, demanded his best effort and got results. That's a coach !

 

[MikeVol44]

Anyone that thinks Dooley wasn't given a fair chance is a moron. After hearing how the high school coaches talk about the arrogance of Dooley, how could anyone still support the guy? On recruiting day, Dooley said he had not seen any film on Von Bell, the top recruit in the state. What? He wasn't doing his job and he sucked as a head coach.

Well, I was one of those guys who honestly believed that CDD should have been given at least 4 years--the Miss. State game last year REALLY shocked me, and they had 2 weeks to prepare for it--Missouri finally settled it for me!

But the most disappointing thing was finding out just how arrogant he is--and for no reason at all! You really have to be able to get it done if you gonna walk, talk, and act like Saban.

 

[thebjd]

We know.... show it on the field....hasn't done anything yet..... gotta win at least 7 games. We got it.

He has not won a game yet. That is true. Gundy is a good coach and you or I do not know who is better. At the time of the hire it is safe to say Gundy was the bigger name. I like what what Jones is doing. I will go to the games and support my alma mater as I did with the disaster that preceded him.

 

[VolsRule]

all this dooley and fulmer love---I don't get it.

 

[KBVol]

He has not won a game yet. That is true. Gundy is a good coach and you or I do not know who is better. At the time of the hire it is safe to say Gundy was the bigger name. I like what what Jones is doing. I will go to the games and support my alma mater as I did with the disaster that preceded him.

Fair enough. I didn't really understand at the time how or why Gundy was a target but I would've been glad to have him as a coach had he been named.

That being said, I couldn't possibly be happier with what I've seen from Butch to this point. Just get a little tired of always hearing "show it on the field, he hasn't done anything yet, et al". I can acknowledge how well he's doing thus far without having to state the obvious... we all know its ultimately about winning games.

 

[Burger]

Funny how a few months ago I said the same thing, probably harsher but the same nonetheless, and I've been the most hated guy on here since. And on top of it u get an agreement from one of my biggest fans....I mean...haters below...



Dooley won 6 in his first yr in just as difficult, if not more, of a first yr schedule. Apparently he's an idiot and a crappy coach so that's the line drawn in the sand right there. Cbj may have walked into a dumpster but the fire has been put out, and now it's disinfected by the fire and cleaned by the water. It's put up or shut up time imo.

Don't talk about giving him patience cause that's just hypocritical. I love how people like you are wanting others to give to CBJ what y'all were unwilling to give Dooley. And no 2.5 yrs isn't enough even if u gave him support up to the Mizzou game or what ever pt people think was enough time.

I don't know if CBJ is the coach of the future, hope he is, but if he is as good as all say he is then hold his feet to the fire as much as the last guy cause he is making 3mil a yr and the previous guy who did all the grunt work was making 1.9. Which so many on here used for a reason why he needed to win "now" yet he was in the same pay range as KYs coach.

What I think u r having trouble understanding is that if CBJ doesn't have a 7+ win season the perception of his abilities may not be looked at positively. Therefore, it can keep him back on the recruiting trail. He needs to have a great season so he can catch the momentum in the right direction. Otherwise he can be easy pickings by the best recruiters in the country bad mouthing him, especially adding The Legion of the Miserable. It's not that difficult to understand what it takes to get UT out of the hole it's in, and giving him a pass in his first yr isn't going to help.

I love UT as much as the next guy, and have shown I can see the positives through so many negatives and have patience. At the end of the day this fan base decided that changing coaches was best, but we can't keep pushing it down the road 3-4 yrs. We need to see actual improvement on the field improvement ASAP, and that's with wins. Otherwise our hole will just get deeper cause hippie lovie dovie positive aura isn't going to get done all on its own.

Just all IMHO thats all...

All we want is continuous improvement, and it was very obvious that he went extremely backwards in year 3 by the end. Eliis Johnson got fired after his first year.

 

[Burger]

Also Butch had the #1 GPA in the big east two years in a row. He can handle Cheek.