How in the world..

#77
#77
therealUT said:
Wow! "Yes'm massa, you so kind and genteel to be bringin po' negro folk to ya cotton filds."

So, had the slave trade as well as European colonialism not have absolutely raped Western Africa and subsaharan Africa, who is to say that they would not have developed a more decent civilization than what remains there today?

I guess the Native Americans are also indebted to us for our benevolence in providing them with reservations...???
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TRUT, I didn't realize you were the hate/blame America type.

The reason Africans were slaves in the first place is because the various tribes hated each other, fought (still fight), captured each other, enslaved each other and sold each other. And the West African slave trade had been around for centuries prior to the time that slaves came to North America (and continued after America stopped importing them). Great civilizations do not develop in that type of environment. Don't try to blame Western Europe and America for the state of affairs in western Africa. And, yes, the slaves who were purchased and brought to America were probably treated better by their "massa's" than they would have been by the rival tribe that originally captured them. There was a lot of barbaric behavior from the AFRICANS who captured and enslaved other AFRICANS for sale on the slave market. Are you aware that, of all the places where West African slaves were taken, only in North America did that slave population reproduce en mass, and only in North America did the slave population have a life expectancy equal to whites. So, perhaps, even the original slaves themselves were better off in America, yes. And as for their descendants, it is beyond argument that they are FAR better off in America than they would be today if they were still in Africa.

Furthermore, your comparisons to Native Americans and Jews during the Holocaust is so far off base and ludicrous that it doesn't even deserve a response.

You have, unfortunately, bought into the lie that the liberal democrats and media have been telling you for so long: that America is responsible for all of the world's problems.
 
#78
#78
jamesd1628 said:
TRUT, I didn't realize you were the hate/blame America type.

The reason Africans were slaves in the first place is because the various tribes hated each other, fought (still fight), captured each other, enslaved each other and sold each other. And the West African slave trade had been around for centuries prior to the time that slaves came to North America (and continued after America stopped importing them). Great civilizations do not develop in that type of environment. Don't try to blame Western Europe and America for the state of affairs in western Africa. And, yes, the slaves who were purchased and brought to America were probably treated better by their "massa's" than they would have been by the rival tribe that originally captured them. There was a lot of barbaric behavior from the AFRICANS who captured and enslaved other AFRICANS for sale on the slave market. Are you aware that, of all the places where West African slaves were taken, only in North America did that slave population reproduce en mass, and only in North America did the slave population have a life expectancy equal to whites. So, perhaps, even the original slaves themselves were better off in America, yes. And as for their descendants, it is beyond argument that they are FAR better off in America than they would be today if they were still in Africa.

Furthermore, your comparisons to Native Americans and Jews during the Holocaust is so far off base and ludicrous that it doesn't even deserve a response.

You have, unfortunately, bought into the lie that the liberal democrats and media have been telling you for so long: that America is responsible for all of the world's problems.
Click to expand...

You cannot justify slavery, no matter how you cut it. Regardless of what would have happened, the simple fact is these people were taken from their homes. The slave trade destroyed generations upon generations of African families and tribes. The tribal leaders who sold these people into slavery only did it because there was a demand for it. Does that make it right? No, but the simple fact is, everyone who was involved in the slave trade was absolutely in the wrong. There is no grey area on this issue, to try to blur the line is irresponsible and flat out dumb.

This has nothing to do with the liberal media and the democrats, it's mindboggling that anyone thinks so.

I'll leave you with a question, if it is so bad over there, shouldn't we bring people from third world countries here now? I mean it would be cheap labor, and they would be better off right?

EDIT: Oh, and lastly, you say that it is beyond argument. Where is your proof? That's right, you can't possibly prove anything one way or another, this argument is a hypothetical. There are multiple scenarios we are discussing here, only one of which happened. The best you can do is argue the pros and cons based on what you know, and what you know is what happened.
 
#79
#79
jkell24 said:
Ok, so which one is it? Is he an outright racist that doesn't like white people or is he a racist because of his policies? I was looking at the quote that said he wasn't a racist but he was maybe racist in making decisions based on a person's skin color. If I look at his policies and they are similar to other democrats than how is that relevant? I just don't see any glaring difference that would tell me his policies were made by the seperatist and racist around him when they look like policies of another democrat.
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i think he is a racist because he believes strongly that white people are racists and he must do things to circumvent this racism.

and despite the fact that his voting record is similar to hillary's. hillary woudl not risk reelection by enacting racist (or if you like extremely socialist) policies as president. i'm not sure obama is that practical. he may think it is his moral duty to set right this "wrong."
 
#80
#80
droski said:
i think he is a racist because he believes strongly that white people are racists and he must do things to circumvent this racism.

and despite the fact that his voting record is similar to hillary's. hillary woudl not risk reelection by enacting racist socialist policies as president. i'm not sure obama is that practical. he may think it is his moral duty to help out minorities.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, on a side note, Congrats on getting Mike Montgomery, he is a good coach.
 
#82
#82
jamesd1628 said:
TRUT, I didn't realize you were the hate/blame America type.

The reason Africans were slaves in the first place is because the various tribes hated each other, fought (still fight), captured each other, enslaved each other and sold each other. And the West African slave trade had been around for centuries prior to the time that slaves came to North America (and continued after America stopped importing them). Great civilizations do not develop in that type of environment. Don't try to blame Western Europe and America for the state of affairs in western Africa. And, yes, the slaves who were purchased and brought to America were probably treated better by their "massa's" than they would have been by the rival tribe that originally captured them. There was a lot of barbaric behavior from the AFRICANS who captured and enslaved other AFRICANS for sale on the slave market. Are you aware that, of all the places where West African slaves were taken, only in North America did that slave population reproduce en mass, and only in North America did the slave population have a life expectancy equal to whites. So, perhaps, even the original slaves themselves were better off in America, yes. And as for their descendants, it is beyond argument that they are FAR better off in America than they would be today if they were still in Africa.

Furthermore, your comparisons to Native Americans and Jews during the Holocaust is so far off base and ludicrous that it doesn't even deserve a response.

You have, unfortunately, bought into the lie that the liberal democrats and media have been telling you for so long: that America is responsible for all of the world's problems.
Click to expand...

Two wrongs don't make a right so it is irrelavent what happened in Africa. I think TRUT was dead on with his response earlier.
 
#83
#83
emainvol said:
You cannot justify slavery, no matter how you cut it. Regardless of what would have happened, the simple fact is these people were taken from their homes. The slave trade destroyed generations upon generations of African families and tribes. The tribal leaders who sold these people into slavery only did it because there was a demand for it. Does that make it right? No, but the simple fact is, everyone who was involved in the slave trade was absolutely in the wrong. There is no grey area on this issue, to try to blur the line is irresponsible and flat out dumb.

This has nothing to do with the liberal media and the democrats, it's mindboggling that anyone thinks so.

I'll leave you with a question, if it is so bad over there, shouldn't we bring people from third world countries here now? I mean it would be cheap labor, and they would be better off right?
Click to expand...

I agree that there is no justification for slavery. However, is there any justification for it to continually be held above the heads of white Americans and used as a cudgel every time a member of the so-called black leadership has an axe to grind?
 
#84
#84
MG1968 said:
I agree that there is no justification for slavery. However, is there any justification for it to continually be held above the heads of white Americans and used as a cudgel every time a member of the so-called black leadership has an axe to grind?
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it's the easiest, garners the most news coverage and any public disagreement with the accuser results in immediate racist shouts, hence most are loathe to even debate it.
 
#85
#85
MG1968 said:
I agree that there is no justification for slavery. However, is there any justification for it to continually be held above the heads of white Americans and used as a cudgel every time a member of the so-called black leadership has an axe to grind?
Click to expand...

150+ years of oppression has a funny effect on people. I don't think that I should be held responsible for what my ancestors did, but I don't know how I would feel if the roles were reversed either.

There is a certain religious aspect to all this, you are born with the sins of the father and whatnot. Again, I don't necessarily agree with it, but unfortunately our ancestors were such idiots that we have a lot to make up for.

My short answer to your question was no, the abridged long answer is seen above.
 
#86
#86
emainvol said:
You cannot justify slavery, no matter how you cut it. Regardless of what would have happened, the simple fact is these people were taken from their homes. The slave trade destroyed generations upon generations of African families and tribes. The tribal leaders who sold these people into slavery only did it because there was a demand for it. Does that make it right? No, but the simple fact is, everyone who was involved in the slave trade was absolutely in the wrong. There is no grey area on this issue, to try to blur the line is irresponsible and flat out dumb.

This has nothing to do with the liberal media and the democrats, it's mindboggling that anyone thinks so.

I'll leave you with a question, if it is so bad over there, shouldn't we bring people from third world countries here now? I mean it would be cheap labor, and they would be better off right?
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to justify slavery. If you read my original post, I clearly said that slavery is evil. It is also a fact that the descendents of the North American slaves are better off than if their ancestors had remained in Africa. That is a fact.

Yes, the slave trade destroyed generations of African tribes and families, agreed. Where I disagree is that it is America's fault. Of all the slaves that came out of Africa, only a very small percentage came to North America. And as noted, the practice was in existence for centuries before North America ever had slave one. Don't blame America - that is what the libs want people to do.

And finally, as far as I know, we don't have a labor shortage here, so I don't follow your point about bringing third world population to the US now.
 
#87
#87
I do wish Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would quit championing themselves the voice of "Black America."
 
#88
#88
jamesd1628 said:
I'm not trying to justify slavery. If you read my original post, I clearly said that slavery is evil. It is also a fact that the descendents of the North American slaves are better off than if their ancestors had remained in Africa. That is a fact.

Yes, the slave trade destroyed generations of African tribes and families, agreed. Where I disagree is that it is America's fault. Of all the slaves that came out of Africa, only a very small percentage came to North America. And as noted, the practice was in existence for centuries before North American ever had slave one. Don't blame America - that is what the libs want people to do.

And finally, as far as I know, we don't have a labor shortage here, so I don't follow your point about bringing third world population to the US now.
Click to expand...

You can't say it's a fact, it's impossible. You simply don't know how the world would be different had this never happened.

As for your second part, whether or not it is completely America's fault is not the debate. Whether a certain portion of our forefathers are culpable is the question. The answer is yes, they are. Slavery was allowed to exist within borders, it doesn't make us any less to blame because it was going on everywhere else.

My question has nothing to do with labor shortages, you are dodging it. Do you think that since those people were "better off," that we should bring others over now since they would (at least by your logic) be better off in 150 years.
 
#89
#89
jamesd1628 said:
TRUT, I didn't realize you were the hate/blame America type.

The reason Africans were slaves in the first place is because the various tribes hated each other, fought (still fight), captured each other, enslaved each other and sold each other. And the West African slave trade had been around for centuries prior to the time that slaves came to North America (and continued after America stopped importing them). Great civilizations do not develop in that type of environment. Don't try to blame Western Europe and America for the state of affairs in western Africa. And, yes, the slaves who were purchased and brought to America were probably treated better by their "massa's" than they would have been by the rival tribe that originally captured them. There was a lot of barbaric behavior from the AFRICANS who captured and enslaved other AFRICANS for sale on the slave market. Are you aware that, of all the places where West African slaves were taken, only in North America did that slave population reproduce en mass, and only in North America did the slave population have a life expectancy equal to whites. So, perhaps, even the original slaves themselves were better off in America, yes. And as for their descendants, it is beyond argument that they are FAR better off in America than they would be today if they were still in Africa.

Furthermore, your comparisons to Native Americans and Jews during the Holocaust is so far off base and ludicrous that it doesn't even deserve a response.

You have, unfortunately, bought into the lie that the liberal democrats and media have been telling you for so long: that America is responsible for all of the world's problems.
Click to expand...

One of thoese people.......

Ugghh....

C.S.A.: The Confederate States of America (2004) - Trailers and Videos

Be sure to check out the trailer........

This describes every thing a little easier!
 
#90
#90
emainvol said:
You can't say it's a fact, it's impossible. You simply don't know how the world would be different had this never happened.

As for your second part, whether or not it is completely America's fault is not the debate. Whether a certain portion of our forefathers are culpable is the question. The answer is yes, they are. Slavery was allowed to exist within borders, it doesn't make us any less to blame because it was going on everywhere else.

My question has nothing to do with labor shortages, you are dodging it. Do you think that since those people were "better off," that we should bring others over now since they would (at least by your logic) be better off in 150 years.
Click to expand...

Unlike my liberal bretheren, I don't feel that it's America's job to save the world and make the life of everyone on the planet better.
 
#91
#91
emainvol said:
I have never had any kind of problem discussing race issues with my African American friends, and I also don't really know what you mean by "peace will never happen." I guess I missed the start of the race war.
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I'm saying IN MY EXPERIENCE ONLY
WITH ONLY THE EXPERIENCES I HAVE HAD
THROUGH DIFFERENT JOBS, EDUCATION AND TRAVELS
there seems to be a lot of racial tension in the south. That is all I'm saying. IN THE SOUTH. FROM MY EXPERIENCE ONLY IN THE SOUTH.

I went to a boarding school in Co for my senior year of academy and there was absolutely ZERO racial tension out there between whites and blacks. However, there seem to be quite a bit between whites and Hispanics, more specifically Mexican people.

I seriously dare one more person to try to make me appear as though I am a racist or unempathetic with any minority group. Everything I have stated has been IN MY OPINION ONLY AND FROM MY EXPERIENCES ONLY.
 
#92
#92
jamesd1628 said:
Unlike my liberal bretheren, I don't feel that it's America's job to save the world and make the life of everyone on the planet better.
Click to expand...

I love it, somewhere in this rhetoric filled response, he shoots a hole in his own argument.

So, if it isn't our job now, how can you use it to help support your argument that it actually made their lives better then?
 
#93
#93
Volnissniss said:
I'm saying IN MY EXPERIENCE ONLY
WITH ONLY THE EXPERIENCES I HAVE HAD
THROUGH DIFFERENT JOBS, EDUCATION AND TRAVELS
there seems to be a lot of racial tension in the south. That is all I'm saying. IN THE SOUTH. FROM MY EXPERIENCE ONLY IN THE SOUTH.

I went to a boarding school in Co for my senior year of academy and there was absolutely ZERO racial tension out there between whites and blacks. However, there seem to be quite a bit between whites and Hispanics, more specifically Mexican people.

I seriously dare one more person to try to make me appear as though I am a racist or unempathetic with any minority group. Everything I have stated has been IN MY OPINION ONLY AND FROM MY EXPERIENCES ONLY.
Click to expand...
so, since it's only your opinion and based upon solely your experiences, you cannot be a racist? That's rich.
 
#94
#94
Volnissniss said:
I'm saying IN MY EXPERIENCE ONLY
WITH ONLY THE EXPERIENCES I HAVE HAD
THROUGH DIFFERENT JOBS, EDUCATION AND TRAVELS
there seems to be a lot of racial tension in the south. That is all I'm saying. IN THE SOUTH. FROM MY EXPERIENCE ONLY IN THE SOUTH.

I went to a boarding school in Co for my senior year of academy and there was absolutely ZERO racial tension out there between whites and blacks. However, there seem to be quite a bit between whites and Hispanics, more specifically Mexican people.

I seriously dare one more person to try to make me appear as though I am a racist or unempathetic with any minority group. Everything I have stated has been IN MY OPINION ONLY AND FROM MY EXPERIENCES ONLY.
Click to expand...

You should really stop with the victimization crap. I am only challenging your argument, if you can't handle it, this probably isn't the forum for you. I am not accusing you of anything. I am speaking from my experience and challenging your "peace will never happen" statement.
 
#95
#95
Neither side of this issue will EVER let it die down to where we all feel completely reassured that it is no longer a problem. As long as there are the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons, Quanell X's, and Don Imus's of the world, this will be an issue that we must face. Race issues are alive in well ALL over the country, not just the south. I agree with the above that said "of his experience". From my vantage point, it is an overwhelming issue for politicians to attempt to face. It is also an alarming issue due to the idealogy of extremist who use it as a platform for personal gain. Aside from the fact that, to a degree racisim has reversed in some areas of our society, mainstream America cant fix it. Many say the right things, claim the redudant, "I have black friends" comments, and attend rallies promoting equality. That facts from my stance is this,

it is here, it has been here, and no one has the answers to make it go away. Both of you going back and forth on the past pages have good points. In no way do I view your arguments to indicate that yall are racisist nor do they appear that you condone it. It is gentelmen, what it is.

Just to rationalize and put my 2 pennies down.
 
#96
#96
emainvol said:
I love it, somewhere in this rhetoric filled response, he shoots a hole in his own argument.

So, if it isn't our job now, how can you use it to help support your argument that it actually made their lives better then?
Click to expand...

Rhetoric? Jeez. Emain, do you have any recognition of the difference between trying to explain something that has, in fact, already happened historically compared to trying to make a case for something that our county should/should not have an obligation to do now or in the future? Apparently not.
 
#97
#97
Racism = $$$ and power..... it will never go away.....

The democrats can't afford racsim to simply go away......
 
#99
#99
OrangeEmpire said:
Racism = $$$ and power..... it will never go away.....

The democrats can't afford racsim to simply go away......
Click to expand...

Truth, right there. It's just one more way (and a big way) to make whites feel guilty and dupe people into voting for democrats.
 
#100
#100
Volnissniss said:
I'm saying IN MY EXPERIENCE ONLY
WITH ONLY THE EXPERIENCES I HAVE HAD
THROUGH DIFFERENT JOBS, EDUCATION AND TRAVELS
there seems to be a lot of racial tension in the south. That is all I'm saying. IN THE SOUTH. FROM MY EXPERIENCE ONLY IN THE SOUTH.

I went to a boarding school in Co for my senior year of academy and there was absolutely ZERO racial tension out there between whites and blacks. However, there seem to be quite a bit between whites and Hispanics, more specifically Mexican people.

I seriously dare one more person to try to make me appear as though I am a racist or unempathetic with any minority group. Everything I have stated has been IN MY OPINION ONLY AND FROM MY EXPERIENCES ONLY.
Click to expand...

You need to get out of the south more. Racism is here and the north and probably worse than what you see in the South.

So I am not trying to make you appear more racist just pointing out your lack of experience. One year at an acadamy in Colorado does not make your opinion of the south show a lot of credibility.
 
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