Hyatt sitting not an issue

[vols40]

That right there.
Call it what you want, but if you're using it to smear the guy's character, then don't be coy about it. @vols40



The season is done once the schedule is played out. The season is extended IF you win your division and play for conference title, and then IF you get a playoff spot; that's what guys play for, not a consolation bowl game. An elective bowl game in which none of that is on the line, is next year's winter practice and exhibition, and better spent - win or lose - on developing the guys who'll be on next year's squad and not those OPTING - yes, OPTING, OPTING - for the NFL. Bowls are fan-fun, player-fun, but mostly school and network revenue fun.

Early signing even diminishes bowl games as recruiting tools - our class is basically done, those guys signed on the recruiting expertise of the staff and our regular season performance. Hyatt is known quantity and being drafted high on that basis; he risks only downside in a meaningless bowl game. CJH not only discusses pro-bound players prospects with them but bring in 3rd party advisers to give players the most sober assessment of their opportunity. That type program will flourish in the new collegiate era because parents and players know if you don't care enough about me individually to do that, then your words about 'team' are self-serving.

Never did I say nor infer anything about Hyatt. My contention was that regardless of his decision I call that quitting not opting out. But once again thanks for the 500th 3 paragraph response.

Edit


@NCFisher feel free to look through my posts and if there's a personal attack I lobbed at Hyatt I will apologize right here because that was never my intention. My intention in this is to stop calling this opting out when it should be called quitting.

 

[vols40]

Funny quotes considering he coached professional athletes who are paid game checks to play. Under an actual contract. Like it or not college kids are still considered amateurs. NIL is good but no where near an NFL contract level good.

Have you paid any attention to the Vols since Pruitt was fired? We are allegedly having the coaches wife give players money. And there's plenty to suggest that is done around the country. Please with the "amateur athletes" reference. Comparing what players salaries in the Lombardi era to athletes today does not help prove your point.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Jaylin Hyatt is a VFL and the best wide receiver in college football.

I wish he was playing tonight, but with the Alabama game alone, he cemented himself a special place in Tennessee history. Nothing can diminish that.

 

[BowlBrother85]

That right there.
Call it what you want, but if you're using it to smear the guy's character, then don't be coy about it. @vols40



The season is done once the schedule is played out. The season is extended IF you win your division and play for conference title, and then IF you get a playoff spot; that's what guys play for, not a consolation bowl game. An elective bowl game in which none of that is on the line, is next year's winter practice and exhibition, and better spent - win or lose - on developing the guys who'll be on next year's squad and not those OPTING - yes, OPTING, OPTING - for the NFL. Bowls are fan-fun, player-fun, but mostly school and network revenue fun.

Early signing even diminishes bowl games as recruiting tools - our class is basically done, those guys signed on the recruiting expertise of the staff and our regular season performance. Hyatt is known quantity and being drafted high on that basis; he risks only downside in a meaningless bowl game. CJH not only discusses pro-bound players prospects with them but bring in 3rd party advisers to give players the most sober assessment of their opportunity. That type program will flourish in the new collegiate era because parents and players know if you don't care enough about me individually to do that, then your words about 'team' are self-serving.

I love how some people think that they are the anointed one who gets to define when a college football season ends and which games are important, and which games aren't ... as if their perception carries more weight than those who see things differently.

The Orange Bowl is one of the most prestigious post-season games. It is high profile and the result will count in the win/loss record and factor heavily in the final rankings. That doesn't sound like an exhibition game just played for fun to me.

Eventually, I suspect that NIL deals will be written to mandate participation in bowl games (provided the player is healthy, and cleared to play by the team doctor). That will alleviate some of this.

 

[NCFisher]

Never did I say nor infer anything about Hyatt. My contention was that regardless of his decision I call that quitting not opting out. But once again thanks for the 500th 3 paragraph response.

Edit


@NCFisher feel free to look through my posts and if there's a personal attack I lobbed at Hyatt I will apologize right here because that was never my intention. My intention in this is to stop calling this opting out when it should be called quitting.

Well, good on you then, mate.
Then you'll have no qualms with those using opt-out to purposely eliminate the negative connotation most are intending.

 

[vols40]

Well, good on you then, mate.
Then you'll have no qualms with those using opt-out to purposely eliminate the negative connotation most are intending.

Call it what you will. It will never change the fact that someone quit.

 

[BigALWiLson]

Have you paid any attention to the Vols since Pruitt was fired? We are allegedly having the coaches wife give players money. And there's plenty to suggest that is done around the country. Please with the "amateur athletes" reference. Comparing what players salaries in the Lombardi era to athletes today does not help prove your point.

Nah man I dont pay attention to the Vols none at all. They are still amateurs no matter what you say. Until they turn pro. I agree about the Lombardi era they didnt pay what they do now back then. The game was played different. Everything is different including sitting out a bowl game, which back then was unheard of

 

[TNVOL68]

College football is changing so much and I’m not sure its all for the best.

 

[Good2bavol]

So, and this is purely curiosity, I promise; had Tennessee made the CFP, and reached a title game rematch against UGA, and let's say Hooker, Hyatt, and Tillman (or whoever, just anyone who'd have draft chances) all chose to sit ... that's okay? Like, you'd be okay with it?

I don't know how I'd feel in that situation. I'd understand guys making that choice, but at the same time, I don't know what I'd think about the game or the experience. Like, why do I care about the game at that point? I realize the response there is "it doesn't matter if you care," but I don't know how to square that one away.

I completely agree. So what happens of Stetson Bennet gets his knee blown out in the Championship game. It could mean a loss of millions in earnings. For what, an expensive ring and a trophy that he doesn't even get to take home? Should he be taking the risk? Using the logic that many are stating here, he should "opt-out". (quit)

 

[Good2bavol]

Funny quotes considering he coached professional athletes who are paid game checks to play. Under an actual contract. Like it or not college kids are still considered amateurs. NIL is good but no where near an NFL contract level good.

I don't think Vince was talking about football here specifically. The speech was more about the character of an individual. Some people believe that quitting is just an everyday thing and is okay, at least until someone quits on them which affects their lives. Then its not so cool.

 

[NCFisher]

I love how some people think that they are the anointed one who gets to define when a college football season ends and which games are important, and which games aren't ... as if their perception carries more weight than those who see things differently.

The Orange Bowl is one of the most prestigious post-season games. It is high profile and the result will count in the win/loss record and factor heavily in the final rankings. That doesn't sound like an exhibition game just played for fun to me.

Eventually, I suspect that NIL deals will be written to mandate participation in bowl games (provided the player is healthy, and cleared to play by the team doctor). That will alleviate some of this.

That's me - The Anointed One.

Are bowl games not elective? Do bowl games have even the slightest NC implication since BCS? Has CJH's recruiting and the portal not shown us bowl's don't even have recruiting value since our class is practically done based upon the regular, scheduled season performance? That's why even the prestigious OB means nothing except to us fans, players as a vacation, and revenue to schools and networks. It's practicality, it's 2023 winter camp.

Some fans need to accept the age of indentured players is over, it isn't coming back, and it's a good thing the court has restored their rights every other American enjoys. Bowl opt-outs are a leading indicator of that change.

Separate fan-feels from the equation and you'll see there is no reason that private business wanting player endorsements will burden their business opportunity with such 'mandates'. You want the guy fronting your product or you don't, and he's even worth more to you with an NFL contract. Is your mandate worth more than his high draft status to him? If you don't want Jalin or Nico selling Porsches for you without a bowl mandate, the Benz dealer does. It isn't even legal in some states, maybe most/all.

Are you going to send your 1st-2nd rounder to Dabo screeching about sitting out the who season if you sit a bowl, or Heupel telling your son we can't talk team without caring for the individual first? Stop holding onto the plantation system. Heupel is dealing with this exactly how he should, in order to have the program thrive in this new era.

 

[Good2bavol]

I love how some people think that they are the anointed one who gets to define when a college football season ends and which games are important, and which games aren't ... as if their perception carries more weight than those who see things differently.

The Orange Bowl is one of the most prestigious post-season games. It is high profile and the result will count in the win/loss record and factor heavily in the final rankings. That doesn't sound like an exhibition game just played for fun to me.

Eventually, I suspect that NIL deals will be written to mandate participation in bowl games (provided the player is healthy, and cleared to play by the team doctor). That will alleviate some of this.

As a company owner, I pay a kid NIL not so that I feel good about myself, but as a marketing tool to generate more business. And after I pay a kid, he decides he is going to quit ?!?!?!? I would structure the NIL deal as bonus driven and a percentage held in reserve to pay out in at the end of the season and forfeiture for not participating.

 

[luthervol]

I wish he was playing tonight, but with the Alabama game alone, he cemented himself a special place in Tennessee history. Nothing can diminish that.

True. I'll never forget that. He will always be remembered as a TN legend.
It's just that a lot of people like and respect him just a little bit less than they would have had he played.
He went down from close to a 100 to about a 93 (still fantastic).
And that is a loss he obviously viewed as an acceptable price.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Do bowl games have even the slightest NC implication since BCS?

Did more than 3 out of the 15-30 bowl games per season EVER have even the slightest NC implication even BEFORE the BCS (1998)?

... and if NC implications is the criteria for designating games as being meaningful, then 75% of all college football games played in November by schools in the FBS from now are just exhibition games.

 

[NCFisher]

I completely agree. So what happens of Stetson Bennet gets his knee blown out in the Championship game. It could mean a loss of millions in earnings. For what, an expensive ring and a trophy that he doesn't even get to take home? Should he be taking the risk? Using the logic that many are stating here, he should "opt-out". (quit)

Let's do apples to apples.

Bowls game no longer have any title implications with BCS & CFP. In pre-BCS '97, TN had a title shot with a win over NU, who instead won and split the title with Michigan. No one comes to top 10 schools to play for the shot at a consolation bowl game; they come for conference and national titles, and for those with that potential, the NFL. That's it. Everything else is fan-fun and revenue for schools/networks.

As likely a tail-end draft pick, if he's drafted at all, Bennett's not the best example. Barring injury, he can only improve his prospects. Hyatt is a know quantity; a guy that needs to improve routes and separate from DBs better, but can 'take out the top of the defense'. His stock isn't going higher with even a great bowl game, or not enough to mitigate the risk.

There's no way Bennett or Hyatt pass on playing in the CFP, or SECC. Those games - title games - are simply different than playing Vandy in season, or Clemson post season. They came to GA and TN to play those games; titles are the whole point of the regular season at top 10 programs.

 

[Delmar]

Please explain how much higher rated prospects also ostensibly trying to protect their families so they "have what they need to thrive" chose to play in a meaningless bowl game. And the second part of my question... Are these higher rated prospects also selfish?

Nope I’m saying fans are selfish if they want a player to play just to satisfy their needy fan complex. Although I think it’s dumb for a top draft choice to play in a non-playoff bowl game, that is strictly their decision just like it’s Jalin’s decision not to play. Not going to quibble with either one.

Even Coach has the game in proper perspective. In a KNS article this morning, Josh stated that the bowl game is a nice reward for a great season but in the same breath he also said it’s the start of the 2023 season for the players who will be back. Personally I think the focus should be on the latter. Why fans can’t keep the same perspective is a mystery to me.

 

[luthervol]

Let's do apples to apples.

Bowls game no longer have any title implications with BCS & CFP. In pre-BCS '97, TN had a title shot with a win over NU, who instead won and split the title with Michigan. No one comes to top 10 schools to play for the shot at a consolation bowl game; they come for conference and national titles, and for those with that potential, the NFL. That's it. Everything else is fan-fun and revenue for schools/networks.

As likely a tail-end draft pick, if he's drafted at all, Bennett's not the best example. Barring injury, he can only improve his prospects. Hyatt is a know quantity; a guy that needs to improve routes and separate from DBs better, but can 'take out the top of the defense'. His stock isn't going higher with even a great bowl game, or not enough to mitigate the risk.

There's no way Bennett or Hyatt pass on playing in the CFP, or SECC. Those games - title games - are simply different than playing Vandy in season, or Clemson post season. They came to GA and TN to play those games; titles are the whole point of the regular season at top 10 programs.

And then you have Hooker in his farewell letter to TN fans talking about how important winning a bowl game was to him.

different strokes for different folks..........that's what the whole discussion is about.
Some do not view Hyatt's strokes in a favorable way. He will rightfully be viewed in a slightly less favorable way.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Bowls game no longer have any title implications with BCS & CFP. In pre-BCS '97, TN had a title shot with a win over NU, who instead won and split the title with Michigan.

That isn't something new.

Most bowl games did not have any title implications even before the BCS and CFP.

By the time the 1998 Orange Bowl was played, Tennessee no longer had a shot at the National Championship. Michigan had won the Rose Bowl the night before over Washington State to complete an undefeated season. That did not prevent the #1 overall pick in the 1998 NFL Draft, Peyton Manning, from playing in the game, however ... even though he had injured his knee just a month prior in the SEC CG vs Auburn.

 

[Delmar]

lol......so is being selfish a good or bad thing? Hyatt is my son's favorite player; I'm just looking out for what is best for my family when thinking Hyatt should play.

Often times what is best for oneself is not what is best for others.
Simple example - someone comes to you and offers you the choice of giving you $10,000 or giving $100,000 to an orphanage in Africa. One or the other - what do you choose?
What if it was $10,000 to you or $10,000 to the orphanage?
$10,00 to you or $5000 to the orphanage?

Choices are constantly being made between what is best for you (the individual) weighed against what is best for others (society).
Your first priority in life should be to set a good example for your family of how a man should live his life......

So you would risk life changing money for your family? Yes, you should always set good examples. But to risk setting your family up for life ain’t a good decision for me just to satisfy the whims of needy fans. Ain’t going to happen if I have that choice for my family.

 

[BigALWiLson]

And then you have Hooker in his farewell letter to TN fans talking about how important winning a bowl game was to him.

different strokes for different folks..........that's what the whole discussion is about.
Some do not view Hyatt's strokes in a favorable way. He will rightfully be viewed in a slightly less favorable way.

Did you read the part Hooker talked about Hyatt ? Yeah I doubt there is any bitterness

 

[BigALWiLson]

That isn't something new.

Most bowl games did not have any title implications even before the BCS and CFP.

By the time the 1998 Orange Bowl was played, Tennessee no longer had a shot at the National Championship. Michigan had won the Rose Bowl the night before over Washington State to complete an undefeated season. That did not prevent the #1 overall pick in the 1998 NFL Draft, Peyton Manning, from playing in the game, however ... even though he had injured his knee just a month prior in the SEC CG vs Auburn.

Again you are talking a whole different era of football.... each player has his own path.

 

[luthervol]

So you would risk life changing money for your family? Yes, you should always set good examples. But to risk setting your family up for life ain’t a good decision for me just to satisfy the whims of needy fans. Ain’t going to happen if I have that choice for my family.

Sure he should risk it. Keeping your commitments and being a team player always comes with a risk.

 

[luthervol]

Did you read the part Hooker talked about Hyatt ? Yeah I doubt there is any bitterness

Who said Hooker was bitter?

 

[BowlBrother85]

Again you are talking a whole different era of football.... each player has his own path.

The circumstances are identical.

Was Tennessee playing for a National Championship in the 1998 Orange Bowl?
No, they were not. If Tennessee had beaten Nebraska, then Michigan would have been the unanimous 1997 National Champion.

Was Peyton Manning the clear cut #1 overall pick in the 1998 NFL Draft?
Yes, he was. He had nothing to gain personally from playing ... and despite already being injured, he played anyway.

 

[Voltopia]

Personally I think the focus should be on the latter. Why fans can’t keep the same perspective is a mystery to me.

Heupel can say "it's about 2023," but the Orange Bowl will not only go on Tennessee's 2022 record but will determine Tennessee's final ranking for their first good season in 15 years. It can either count or not count, but as of today? It counts. It's going to go on Tennessee's record. "Bowl game results don't matter." But they do. They put it on your record. It may be inconvenient for the "bowl games don't matter" perspective, but they put them on your record.

I suppose you could make bowl games not count, but then people wouldn't really watch or invest in them. No one wants to do that, of course, because they represent an institutionalized, reliable source of revenue. You can't make money if people don't care.

But to me, that's also what a lot of this boils down to. Different groups wanting people to care when it's convenient for them. The fans want everyone to care full blast - well, more or less. The schools want people to care a whole lot when it come to attendance or spending. The players want fans to care a whole lot when they play, but then also not care at all when they don't want to play. ESPN wants everyone to care about bowl games because of advertising revenue - but also not care about them when compared to the almighty CFP.