I have a question for some of the Political forum regulars....

#251
#251
droski said:
congrats. and what percentage of your tithing, not targeting giving on a random sunday, goes to charity? 100%? i guess that gods love pays the minister, pays for his car, pays for upkeep of the church, etc etc. if you wanted to give to charity giving to your church is a pretty bad return on your investment. i'll give you the name of many a local food bank that will give 90% of your donation to food for the poor.
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I give what I can, and it's with my heart. Of course, the church has a budget to maintain, how on Earth would they be able to do the things they are able to do everyday without it?? I really think you should go talk with a church and get educated on what they actually do, instead of trying to equate some TV preacher to what actually happens in a church. I'd be happy to give you my church's phone number, so you can ask them what all they do.
 
#252
#252
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Agreed, and those churches ARE not grounded in Christian teachings.
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and you know exactly when a church turns from one that is grounded in christian teachings and one that isn't? does your church have a sound system? flat screen tvs? cherry wood pews? what type of car does your minister drive? how big of a house? does he get a pension when he retires? how mcuch?
 
#253
#253
lumberjack4 said:
I fail to see where it says to give 10% of your income. It says to give freely. HUGE difference.
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Jesus also said he came to fulfill the law, not to abolish it....

And FWIW, I think the total tax/tithe on an OT Jewish person was roughly 23% once you factor everything in.
 
#254
#254
lumberjack4 said:
I fail to see where it says to give 10% of your income. It says to give freely. HUGE difference.
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The 10% number doesn't deal with us, it deals with the Jews, it's Old Testament. If you give what you can, when you can, that is the definition of tithing in today's church. There are some churches that use it as an example, but they don't condemn you if you don't. That's not the way it works.
 
#255
#255
droski said:
and you know exactly when a church turns from one that is grounded in christian teachings and one that isn't? does your church have a sound system? flat screen tvs? cherry wood pews? what type of car does your minister drive? how big of a house? does he get a pension when he retires? how mcuch?
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When eric knows, eric knows.
 
#256
#256
droski said:
congrats. and what percentage of your tithing, not targeting giving on a random sunday, goes to charity? 100%? i guess that gods love pays the minister, pays for his car, pays for upkeep of the church, etc etc. if you wanted to give to charity giving to your church is a pretty bad return on your investment. i'll give you the name of many a local food bank that will give 90% of your donation to food for the poor.
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You connect the command with the result. Those who misuse the givings are accountable. That does not detract from the teaching that giving is necessary. Perhaps giving to some churches are a bad return. That does not excuse non-giving. If it pays for Creflo Dollar's Rolls, then his followers should speak out.
 
#257
#257
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I give what I can, and it's with my heart. Of course, the church has a budget to maintain, how on Earth would they be able to do the things they are able to do everyday without it?? I really think you should go talk with a church and get educated on what they actually do, instead of trying to equate some TV preacher to what actually happens in a church. I'd be happy to give you my church's phone number, so you can ask them what all they do.
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i grew up in a presbyterian church. a very wealthy one that does many good things. i also went to catholic school. please stop condesending me. if i wanted your religion i'd have it by now. it has nothing to do with lack of information.
 
#258
#258
droski said:
i see. convienent no? and jesus was railing against what exactly?
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well... since you asked. in many cases Jesus was railing against "religion" and "churches". If you actually studied his teachings you would probably agree with most of what he taught.
 
#260
#260
droski said:
and you know exactly when a church turns from one that is grounded in christian teachings and one that isn't? does your church have a sound system? flat screen tvs? cherry wood pews? what type of car does your minister drive? how big of a house? does he get a pension when he retires? how mcuch?
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Again, does this give permission for a Christian to not give? Your original argument was that giving was not a teaching of Christ. Now your running loose on blasting churches who stupidly misuse money. You digress.
 
#261
#261
CSpindizzy said:
You connect the command with the result. Those who misuse the givings are accountable. That does not detract from the teaching that giving is necessary. Perhaps giving to some churches are a bad return. That does not excuse non-giving. If it pays for Creflo Dollar's Rolls, then his followers should speak out.
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but the question is what's a misuse of the giving? i've been to churches with extremely expensive sound systems, unbelievable facilites, etc etc. what do those things have to do with giving?
 
#263
#263
IBlvNTmWrk said:
well... since you asked. in many cases Jesus was railing against "religion" and "churches". If you actually studied his teachings you would probably agree with most of what he taught.
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i have studied his teachings and i do agree with most of what he taught. that doesn't mean i agree with your interpretation of his readings and the thought that i have to belong to your church or believe he is god to not go to hell.
 
#264
#264
droski said:
but the question is what's a misuse of the giving? i've been to churches with extremely expensive sound systems, unbelievable facilites, etc etc. what do those things have to do with giving?
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I fail to see where you ever said anything about the New Testament lacking some section about giving.
 
#265
#265
golfballs03 said:
For sure. I've seen Joel osteen getting fitted in armani suits at saks in nyc
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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"prosperity gospel" is about as far as one can stray off course on giving. Jim and Tammy Faye, Creflo, and endless others are not exactly standards of the faith with the actions they make.
 
#266
#266
droski said:
and you know exactly when a church turns from one that is grounded in christian teachings and one that isn't? does your church have a sound system? flat screen tvs? cherry wood pews? what type of car does your minister drive? how big of a house? does he get a pension when he retires? how mcuch?
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There are signs, this is where the church body follows the Bible, or their preacher. And as I stated before some churches have turned into money making scams for preachers/deacons/....etc. Its the duty of the church body to right the ship, if it gets off course.
 
#267
#267
droski said:
and you know exactly when a church turns from one that is grounded in christian teachings and one that isn't? does your church have a sound system? flat screen tvs? cherry wood pews? what type of car does your minister drive? how big of a house? does he get a pension when he retires? how mcuch?
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Alright man, you keep trying to cross your arms as say, "Well, I got him now." with almost every post you are posting in this thread. So, I'll put it to you like this, if a pastor at a church goes at 3am in the morning to sit beside someone's bedside who is dying and they request him being there, then he deserves whatever the Lord blesses him with. Your trying to corrupt the church and yet you know nothing about it. Sure, there are corrupt churches, but mine isn't, I can tell you that much for sure. In fact, I invite anyone on here who wants to go with me there to find out. Then, you can talk with the financial officers and they will be happy to go over things with you. We get a quarterly budget statement too, that lets us know where our money is going, every freaking penny.
 
#268
#268
CSpindizzy said:
Again, does this give permission for a Christian to not give? Your original argument was that giving was not a teaching of Christ. Now your running loose on blasting churches who stupidly misuse money. You digress.
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bs. i said TITHING wasn't a teaching of christ. i don't think christ would have agreed with 90% of the things churches spend money on.
 
#269
#269
g8terh8ter_eric said:
The 10% number doesn't deal with us, it deals with the Jews, it's Old Testament. If you give what you can, when you can, that is the definition of tithing in today's church. There are some churches that use it as an example, but they don't condemn you if you don't. That's not the way it works.
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Exactly tithing was old testament. And yes churches do condemn you you when you don't give and they can't afford their multi-million dollar facility and their preacher's $300K salary. Because if you are against their opulence then Jesus cries.
 
#271
#271
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Alright man, you keep trying to cross your arms as say, "Well, I got him now." with almost every post you are posting in this thread. So, I'll put it to you like this, if a pastor at a church goes at 3am in the morning to sit beside someone's bedside who is dying and they request him being there, then he deserves whatever the Lord blesses him with. Your trying to corrupt the church and yet you know nothing about it. Sure, there are corrupt churches, but mine isn't, I can tell you that much for sure. In fact, I invite anyone on here who wants to go with me there to find out. Then, you can talk with the financial officers and they will be happy to go over things with you. We get a quarterly budget statement too, that lets us know where our money is going, every freaking penny.
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once again stop telling me i know nothing about the church. you don't know me. i very much doubt your church will discuss it's finances with me. as for your quarterly budget statement i'm sure it's very detailed right?
 
#273
#273
lumberjack4 said:
Exactly tithing was old testament. And yes churches do condemn you you when you don't give and they can't afford their multi-million dollar facility and their preacher's $300K salary. Because if you are against their opulence then Jesus cries.
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I give $100 a month to my church, and that's not 10%, and I haven't been shown the door yet. Thanks for playing. I'd even tell you how much my church has collected in tithes, but you would just say they are money hungry and do nothing with it, without knowing anything about it.
 
#274
#274
CSpindizzy said:
Again, does this give permission for a Christian to not give? Your original argument was that giving was not a teaching of Christ. Now your running loose on blasting churches who stupidly misuse money. You digress.
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fwiw... i've agreed with all your posts and am also disappointed that droski has chosen to ignore and or dodge them by diverting the topic. However, any good politician will tell you... "if you don't have a good answer to the question that was asked, then just answer a question that wasn't asked and move on".
 
#275
#275
droski said:
bs. i said TITHING wasn't a teaching of christ. i don't think christ would have agreed with 90% of the things churches spend money on.
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But... but how can we reach the lost without a basketball gym and a renovated auditorium with plush cushioned pews?
 
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