I have a question for some of the Political forum regulars....

#326
#326
golfballs03 said:
It's a simple argument some of you are making. "Both religions have their radical fringe". Which is true. But it doesn't mean that one isn't worse than the other.
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I know you don't have sound, but go to about 7:40 into that video. All she is saying over what you're seeing is "This is war! This is war!"
 
#328
#328
droski said:
i saw the website. not sure what was on it that would prove it's not one of the wasteful ones. i hardly see how those 5,711 people needed such such a nice buidling to worship. my catholic high school auditorium (you know that religion you claim wastes money) could have fit that many and i guarantee you it cost 1/3 of that facility.
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Your focused on the building and not what happens on the inside. Man, there are SO many wonderful things our money does in this community, and world-wide. Here's a specific one for you....

Our church is building beds and orphanages in Haiti, which is still not back up from the earthquake that hit there. So, about as month ago, they had a special Sunday nigh worship. Do you know what they asked for us to bring in order to attend the service?? A set of twin bed sheets to go to those kids down there for their beds. That's charity right there. You have NO clue, and evidently others in these thread as well, what my church or other churches do with the money raised by offering. Sometimes they don't even ask for money, just some bed sheets to help out.

They have even helped people pay their utility bills, for those effected by the recession.
 
#329
#329
CSpindizzy said:
So Muhammed's actions and the references to command killing and beheading are just fairy tales and mindless digressions? And have nothing to do with the core?
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you don't seriously believe that the bible or the koran are accurate descriptions of the real life of jesus or mohammad do you? of course they are stories. do you know that the koran was verbally spoken in mohammeds time and wasn't actually written down for at least a century? the bible was written many years after jesus death. we really have no idea how accurate either book is.
 
#330
#330
Churches are like Hollywood movies. Hollywood makes a movie that's based off a book, the problem is they so warp and 'improve' the story to the point where the movie barely resembles the book it was based on. Same with churches, sure they share one or two common themes, but the rest is so bastardized that you end up with an institution that is unrecognizable.
 
#331
#331
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Your focused on the building and not what happens on the inside. Man, there are SO many wonderful things our money does in this community, and world-wide. Here's a specific one for you....

Our church is building beds and orphanages in Haiti, which is still not back up from the earthquake that hit there. So, about as month ago, they had a special Sunday nigh worship. Do you know what they asked for us to bring in order to attend the service?? A set of twin bed sheets to go to those kids down there for their beds. That's charity right there. You have NO clue, and evidently others in these thread as well, what my church or other churches do with the money raised by offering. Sometimes they don't even ask for money, just some bed sheets to help out.
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i don't care what you spend your money on. obviously this is something important to you. i spend money on cal football. hardly a selfless act. I just find it laughable you seem to think it's all going to charity when you have a $5 mil building or whatever as your church. do you think that's cheap? once again. if you wanted to give to haiti, i'm sure you could find a more efficient way than doing it through your church.
 
#332
#332
droski said:
i don't neccasarily disagree that the koran is more violent inherently and that isn't a small part of the problem. i just don't agree violence is a core part of the religion.
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I think we agree on most aspects of it. However, their radical fringe is undoubtedly larger, and much more violent than the radical Christian fringe, it's not even comparable. And like you said before, there are a lot of factors that go into it, perhaps the Koran is more inherently violent. But political, educational, and economic factors also make the situation much worse in the middle east. it's kind of like the perfect incubator for this type of radicalism.
 
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#333
#333
droski said:
i don't care what you spend your money on. obviously this is something important to you. i spend money on cal football. hardly a selfless act. I just find it laughable you seem to think it's all going to charity when you have a $5 mil building or whatever as your church. do you think that's cheap? once again. if you wanted to give to haiti, i'm sure you could find a more efficient way than doing it through your church.
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If we sold every church in this country that cost over 500,000$ to build... imagine all the positive things that could be done with the money.

Sorry, but no church needs a 15,000 dollar projection screen/sound system or marble columns. That's just ridiculous.
 
#334
#334
droski said:
i don't care what you spend your money on. obviously this is something important to you. i spend money on cal football. hardly a selfless act. I just find it laughable you seem to think it's all going to charity when you have a $5 mil building or whatever as your church. do you think that's cheap? once again. if you wanted to give to haiti, i'm sure you could find a more efficient way than doing it through your church.
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So, do you think the people and things in the building doesn't help the community or help build people up that have been torn down by the world?? Do people honestly think you can do that in a high school gymnasium?? If you do, you are very naive, and have no clue what actually goes on in a church. Please, go to church and talk to people inside there, then get back with me. You will find the money is used for many things, including paying the pastor, whose job I don't want because you are on call 24/7, by not only the congregation, but God himself. That's too much responsibility for me to handle for free.
 
#335
#335
golfballs03 said:
I think we agree on most aspects of it. But I think their radical fringe is much larger, and more dangerous than the radical Christian fringe. And like you said before, there are a lot of factors that go into it, perhaps the Koran is more inherently violent. But political, educational, and economic factors also make the situation much worse in the middle east. it's kind of like the perfect incubator for this type of radicalism.
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of course their radical fringe is large. much much larger. i've never disagreed with that. i just believe enough about the human spirit to believe that educated people generally don't go around killing people in the name of religion no matter what mohammed says. it's a little different when your are illiterate and brainwashed from day 1 that america is the devil.
 
#336
#336
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, do you think the people and things in the building doesn't help the community or help build people up that have been torn down by the world?? Do people honestly think you can do that in a high school gymnasium?? If you do, you are very naive, and have no clue what actually goes on in a church. Please, go to church and talk to people inside there, then get back with me. You will find the money is used for many things, including paying the pastor, whose job I don't want because you are on call 24/7, by not only the congregation, but God himself. That's too much responsibility for me to handle for free.
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Because its not the message the lifts people up its the building.
 
#337
#337
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, do you think the people and things in the building doesn't help the community or help build people up that have been torn down by the world?? Do people honestly think you can do that in a high school gymnasium??
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it's done by all kinds of people in much worse places? Too bad Mother Teresa didn't grow up in Brentwood or she could have helped so many more people in that mega-church. To act like it's necessary or required is laughable
 
#338
#338
droski said:
you don't seriously believe that the bible or the koran are accurate descriptions of the real life of jesus or mohammad do you? of course they are stories. do you know that the koran was verbally spoken in mohammeds time and wasn't actually written down for at least a century? the bible was written many years after jesus death. we really have no idea how accurate either book is.
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So a book you first said was non-violent is now inaccurate? How can you claim something is non-violent if you cannot even determine its accuracy? Is this the new tactic? We're going down the accuracy path? We were comparing the teachings. When you had no basis in them being similar, you pull out an accuracy card. We're going by the actual teachings. If you want, we can compare the history from outside sources of both people and their followers up to the closed canon period as you now claim as a boundary. It's difficult to keep up with the goalposts being moved. Again, look at the actions of documented history with the immediate 100 year history from the "founding".

I'm still waiting for comparisons on teachings between the two. Right now I have endless evidence of commanded killing by the founder of one and the endless evidence of the command for peace and love of another founder. I see the immediate persecution and death of the followers of one leader and the immediate killing and conquering by the followers of another. If we want to stretch things out a few hundred years after that you will of course see deviations. But if you want to limit a faith on the actual core (teachings, followers, history) then you still have nothing to go on.
 
#339
#339
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, do you think the people and things in the building doesn't help the community or help build people up that have been torn down by the world?? Do people honestly think you can do that in a high school gymnasium?? If you do, you are very naive, and have no clue what actually goes on in a church. Please, go to church and talk to people inside there, then get back with me. You will find the money is used for many things, including paying the pastor, whose job I don't want because you are on call 24/7, by not only the congregation, but God himself. That's too much responsibility for me to handle for free.
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so you need shiny nice things to look at to love god more? as i said. spend your money where you like, but don't try to tell me it's any more noble than where i spend my money. that is garbage.
 
#340
#340
lumberjack4 said:
Because its not the message the lifts people up its the building.
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So, we should be relegated to sucky quarters, because you think the building costs too much?? That's a worldly view right there if I have ever heard one, and one I used to share as a Christian as well. It's not about the building, it's what happens inside that counts. Whether it be a shack or a palace, it's what you get our of that building during your time of worship that matters.
 
#341
#341
droski said:
of course their radical fringe is large. much much larger. i've never disagreed with that. i just believe enough about the human spirit to believe that educated people generally don't go around killing people in the name of religion no matter what mohammed says. it's a little different when your are illiterate and brainwashed from day 1 that america is the devil.
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i totally agree. radical clerics take advantage of the uneducated in order to empower themselves and enforce their demented ideas.
 
#342
#342
utvolpj said:
it's done by all kinds of people in much worse places? Too bad Mother Teresa didn't grow up in Brentwood or she could have helped so many more people in that mega-church. To act like it's necessary or required is laughable
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Name a worse place that can do what we do, all over the globe.
 
#343
#343
golfballs03 said:
I think we agree on most aspects of it. However, their radical fringe is undoubtedly larger, and much more violent than the radical Christian fringe, it's not even comparable. And like you said before, there are a lot of factors that go into it, perhaps the Koran is more inherently violent. But political, educational, and economic factors also make the situation much worse in the middle east. it's kind of like the perfect incubator for this type of radicalism.
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I can see why you'd think that, but it seems to me like Christianity is biding its time. Islam started out larger, and it has a larger population, but I'm curious to see how things will pan out when the tables turn, and Christianity is the dominant religion (fiscally, politically, and numerically speaking). It seems that when they were as close to being equal as they ever were, the Crusades happened.
 
#344
#344
CSpindizzy said:
So a book you first said was non-violent is now inaccurate? How can you claim something is non-violent if you cannot even determine its accuracy? Is this the new tactic? We're going down the accuracy path? We were comparing the teachings. When you had no basis in them being similar, you pull out an accuracy card. We're going by the actual teachings. If you want, we can compare the history from outside sources of both people and their followers up to the closed canon period as you now claim as a boundary. It's difficult to keep up with the goalposts being moved. Again, look at the actions of documented history with the immediate 100 year history from the "founding".

I'm still waiting for comparisons on teachings between the two. Right now I have endless evidence of commanded killing by the founder of one and the endless evidence of the command for peace and love of another founder. I see the immediate persecution and death of the followers of one leader and the immediate killing and conquering by the followers of another. If we want to stretch things out a few hundred years after that you will of course see deviations. But if you want to limit a faith on the actual core (teachings, followers, history) then you still have nothing to go on.
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my point is, once again, that interpretation is the difference. and once again the core teachings have changed over the years. a simple look at what catholics deem are most important (rituals etc) and what protestants deem are the most important (the book) tells you all you need to know. i think it's pure arrogance to imply that one version is more pure and right than the other.
 
#345
#345
it happens not just in religion. and is pretty much a recurring theme throughout history
 
#346
#346
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, we should be relegated to sucky quarters, because you think the building costs too much?? That's a worldly view right there if I have ever heard one, and one I used to share as a Christian as well. It's not about the building, it's what happens inside that counts. Whether it be a shack or a palace, it's what you get our of that building during your time of worship that matters.
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you can be as lavish as you like. just don't go around telling us your church and your tithing is 100% about charity because that is clearly garbage.
 
#348
#348
DinkinFlicka said:
I can see why you'd think that, but it seems to me like Christianity is biding its time. Islam started out larger, and it has a larger population, but I'm curious to see how things will pan out when the tables turn, and Christianity is the dominant religion (fiscally, politically, and numerically speaking). It seems that when they were as close to being equal as they ever were, the Crusades happened.
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Huh?
 
#349
#349
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, we should be relegated to sucky quarters, because you think the building costs too much?? That's a worldly view right there if I have ever heard one, and one I used to share as a Christian as well. It's not about the building, it's what happens inside that counts. Whether it be a shack or a palace, it's what you get our of that building during your time of worship that matters.
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I thought the world taught greed, not frugality.

If the church is, as you say, all about helping the poor then it would seem to me they would skimp on overhead as much as possible. If you are only at a church because you like the nice building, because you wouldn't be there otherwise, then what are you actually doing there?
 
#350
#350
droski said:
so you need shiny nice things to look at to love god more? as i said. spend your money where you like, but don't try to tell me it's any more noble than where i spend my money. that is garbage.
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Where on earth did you come up with that garbage?? No, you don't need a bunch of shiny things, but trying to knock people for wanting a nice place to worship in is pretty rotten itself. I like the fact I can enjoy myself there and be comfortable in my surroundings, but of course your just going to continue to curse my church because they have a nice campus to attend. When is the last time you went to church??
 
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