I just saw a tight shot of Tebow...

#251
#251
Vercingetorix said:
Death and suffering is clearly the Great Unknowable, and I don't seriously expect religion to be able to untangle it -- unless I'm being told that God is so intimately involved in what goes on here on earth that he influences which way a football bounces and whether a field goal is good. If he's messing around with the piddly little stuff, then he has to answer for the tsunami.
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That makes total sense.

I truthfully think people use "it is just God's will" during tragedies as a comforting mechanism.
 
#253
#253
JZVOL said:
That makes total sense.

I truthfully think people use "it is just God's will" during tragedies as a comforting mechanism.
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much as they use the fact that our departed loved ones are watching down on us right now. According to doctrine, they haven't entered Heaven yet.
 
#256
#256
TXVol_44 said:
Christianity, by definition, is an evangelical faith. Nowhere in Scripture are Christians told to keep quiet about their beliefs and not share with others. Its your choice to accept/believe or to ignore it altogether. Exercise that choice.
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I've made a choice and it's immaterial to the conversation. I would think that evangelizers want to be as effective as possible. The "if just one single kid comes to Jesus" argument undermines the idea that we want to be as effective as possible in spreading the word.
 
#257
#257
rbroyles said:
I know I don't have to tell you, they are speaking with hearts that cannot see beyond Florida colors. I hate Florida too, but I don't let it blind me.
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the colors of the jersey or the name on the back matters not.

football games and preaching God's word are mutually exclusive events. neither should be used as a platform to promote the other.
 
#258
#258
I will submitt this...I believe that TT has accomplished exactly what he wanted to by writing the verse on the glare strips.....discussion about Christianity
 
#262
#262
doozer said:
the colors of the jersey or the name on the back matters not.

football games and preaching God's word are mutually exclusive events. neither should be used as a platform to promote the other.
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What? aren't you big on freedom of speech???? Oh yeah, you are.....until they say something you disagree with.Typical atheist liberal and their "open minds."

:eek:lol:
 
#264
#264
doozer said:
the colors of the jersey or the name on the back matters not.

football games and preaching God's word are mutually exclusive events. neither should be used as a platform to promote the other.
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So you don't think God has blessed Tim Tebow and put him in this position to be one of the greatest college athletes of this generation? You can't turn on the tv or the internet without this guy being talked about - his character, his beliefs and his faith. I have a personal relationship with Jesus and I say he cares about everything, even the ball bouncing one way or the other. He cares about football and uses it as a door for people to hear the gospel. God works in all things. He loves us and lets us be our own person with our own love, passion and understanding for certain things. He blesses people who walk close and who have personal relationships with Him. Romans 8:28 says that "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." I'm always up for a discussion about God/Jesus. ALSO - I'm not trying to ram it down anyone's throat. I just like to voice an opinion on the matter. You are free to believe in who/what you would like. I will take my chances with the creator and know that he uses ALL things to glorify his name - even football.
 
#265
#265
VictoryVille101 said:
So you don't think God has blessed Tim Tebow and put him in this position to be one of the greatest college athletes of this generation? You can't turn on the tv or the internet without this guy being talked about - his character, his beliefs and his faith. I have a personal relationship with Jesus and I say he cares about everything, even the ball bouncing one way or the other. He cares about football and uses it as a door for people to hear the gospel. God works in all things. He loves us and lets us be our own person with our own love, passion and understanding for certain things. He blesses people who walk close and who have personal relationships with Him. Romans 8:28 says that "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." I'm always up for a discussion about God/Jesus. ALSO - I'm not trying to ram it down anyone's throat. I just like to voice an opinion on the matter. You are free to believe in who/what you would like. I will take my chances with the creator and know that he uses ALL things to glorify his name - even football.
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Only argument I have with your statement is I certainly can turn on the tv or internet and not hear the name Tim Tebow mentioned all night (have had the tv on all night tonight and haven't heard him mentioned). Other than that I agree with everything you have to say. Well except the part about the Lord caring about football and how the ball bounces.
 
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#266
#266
If Tebow wants to thank God for his abilities then why should it bother you? He's strong in his faith. Good for him. To each their own.
 
#267
#267
VictoryVille101 said:
So you don't think God has blessed Tim Tebow and put him in this position to be one of the greatest college athletes of this generation? You can't turn on the tv or the internet without this guy being talked about - his character, his beliefs and his faith. I have a personal relationship with Jesus and I say he cares about everything, even the ball bouncing one way or the other. He cares about football and uses it as a door for people to hear the gospel. God works in all things. He loves us and lets us be our own person with our own love, passion and understanding for certain things. He blesses people who walk close and who have personal relationships with Him. Romans 8:28 says that "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." I'm always up for a discussion about God/Jesus. ALSO - I'm not trying to ram it down anyone's throat. I just like to voice an opinion on the matter. You are free to believe in who/what you would like. I will take my chances with the creator and know that he uses ALL things to glorify his name - even football.
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All right, since you're a Gator, I'll bite.

You posit a God who's willing to pick sides in a football game in order to glorify his own self, but who then just deigns to stand aside and watch while genocide happens in Darfur, while children are raped by their relatives; while good Christian people die screaming of cancer, while a tsunami rises up out of the waves and wipes out a quarter of a million people in a dozen countries. Let me just stand up right now and say that, if that's the God who exists, then he is not worthy of the worship of moral beings. (Let me also bold it, so if that's an accurate depiction of the God that exists, he will be sure to notice it and strike me down right here.) Maybe they worship him out of fear, because they're afraid he might cast them into the fires of hell forever and ever, but they sure shouldn't worship him because he deserves it.

Seriously -- an "all-powerful," "all-loving" God is willing to make a football bounce one way or the other in order to aggrandize himself, but he's not willing to intervene while horrific things happen to good people? You cannot seriously believe this.
 
#269
#269
Vercingetorix said:
All right, since you're a Gator, I'll bite.

You posit a God who's willing to pick sides in a football game in order to glorify his own self, but who then just deigns to stand aside and watch while genocide happens in Darfur, while children are raped by their relatives; while good Christian people die screaming of cancer, while a tsunami rises up out of the waves and wipes out a quarter of a million people in a dozen countries. Let me just stand up right now and say that, if that's the God who exists, then he is not worthy of the worship of moral beings. (Let me also bold it, so if that's an accurate depiction of the God that exists, he will be sure to notice it and strike me down right here.) Maybe they worship him out of fear, because they're afraid he might cast them into the fires of hell forever and ever, but they sure shouldn't worship him because he deserves it.

Seriously -- an "all-powerful," "all-loving" God is willing to make a football bounce one way or the other in order to aggrandize himself, but he's not willing to intervene while horrific things happen to good people? You cannot seriously believe this.
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I'm sorry you have chosen to ignore God and all that He has made that is beautiful in this world. Could it possibly be that Satan could be responsible for the travesties you mention?
 
#271
#271
Vercingetorix said:
All right, since you're a Gator, I'll bite.

You posit a God who's willing to pick sides in a football game in order to glorify his own self, but who then just deigns to stand aside and watch while genocide happens in Darfur, while children are raped by their relatives; while good Christian people die screaming of cancer, while a tsunami rises up out of the waves and wipes out a quarter of a million people in a dozen countries. Let me just stand up right now and say that, if that's the God who exists, then he is not worthy of the worship of moral beings. (Let me also bold it, so if that's an accurate depiction of the God that exists, he will be sure to notice it and strike me down right here.) Maybe they worship him out of fear, because they're afraid he might cast them into the fires of hell forever and ever, but they sure shouldn't worship him because he deserves it.

Seriously -- an "all-powerful," "all-loving" God is willing to make a football bounce one way or the other in order to aggrandize himself, but he's not willing to intervene while horrific things happen to good people? You cannot seriously believe this.
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That is not at all what was said.
 
#272
#272
hmanvolfan said:
I'm sorry you have chosen to ignore God and all that He has made that is beautiful in this world. Could it possibly be that Satan could be responsible for the travesties you mention?
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God created the world. God made Satan. God made the rules. Right?

Look, as I indicated upthread, I absolutely understand that Good and Evil, Death and Suffering, Etc. are potentially problems that are well beyond our comprehension, and that God has his own reasons for letting us work those out on our own. Fine. I do not expect the full workings of the Mind of God to be effable to those of us crawling here in the mud. But you don't think that that notion's a little compromised by the idea that the same God who lets all the big horrible moral issues work themselves out here worries himself with tiny little things in order to make people like Tim Tebow look good?

I mean, I know a couple of people who pray for things like good parking places. They pray for what's going to happen on their TV shows. Any time anybody gets sick and gets better, it's because of the glory of God. But then any time anything awful happens, it's HEY HEY HEY, who are we to question God? It's impossible to take seriously any theological model that tries to have it both ways like that.
 
#273
#273
dickens821 said:
That is not at all what was said.
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Of course it wasn't what was said, because that would turn God into a monster. But it's a logical induction from the idea that God would use something as meaningless as a football game in order to glorify himself. As I said upthread, if God is bothering with the piddly little stuff like football, then he has to answer for the big stuff like Darfur and the tsunami.

I am not an atheist. I just reject this notion of an ATM-like God who is helping people find parking spots, pass drug tests, and win football games, but then turns around takes a huge "who-can-know-the-mind-of-God?" pass as soon as human suffering is involved.
 
#275
#275
Tebow can do whatever he wants. I just know that I change the channel everytime they run a story about going on a mission trip and doing whatever. I watch football to watch football, not lifetime network.
 
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