I just saw a tight shot of Tebow...

#228
#228
Vercingetorix said:
Oh, come on. You live in a country in which every politician has to publicly and loudly proclaim allegiance to the Christian faith in order to have a career. Christianity is the established, dominant religion here. The only way you can claim Christians are "persecuted" here is if you petulantly stretch the word to include such crimes as "not being allowed to have Christianity taught in public schools" and "not being allowed to hang the Ten Commandments inside public buildings." The Christians who were being strung up on the side of the road and fed to the lions when that letter was written would want to puke.
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If you think Christians are not being persecuted today, then you are hiding under a rock. Its all about "what offends others"......you never hear about what "offends christians." Granted alot of the people arguing this point are not the brightest, and honestly still believe that women wearing pants will send them to hell.
 
#229
#229
volfanbill said:
not sure what you are trying to get at, but there are multiple verses of an outward show of faith and preaching the gospel. I've seen him point to the sky, but I've never seen him just start praying out loud during a game or during a presser
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Pointing to the sky to thank God for a play you just made on a football field is praying, right? (And if they're just "thanking God for their God-given talent," then why does nobody ever point to the sky after they get sacked or have a kicked blocked?)

I have no use for athletes or coaches who seem to believe that God cares about or influences what happens in a sporting event. Tebow crosses that line, IMO.
 
#230
#230
dantheman617 said:
If you think Christians are not being persecuted today, then you are hiding under a rock. Its all about "what offends others"......you never hear about what "offends christians." Granted alot of the people arguing this point are not the brightest, and honestly still believe that women wearing pants will send them to hell.
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Including "being offended" is stretching the word "persecuted" to the point where it doesn't mean anything.
 
#231
#231
dantheman617 said:
First of all we have no "rights" before God. He is our Creator and Sovereign over all creation. What He has given us is the gift of a free will to make choices. These choices are of our on choosing. This goes all the way back to Adam and Eve. They were given 2 choices one evil and one good.

"And if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve:..." Joshua 24:15
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exactly, so if i have been given the choice, to choose for myself what i want to believe, and we both agree that a supreme being has given us that option, why then, is there a need to ram your faith down my throat?

i should be able to choose for myself outside of your influence right?
 
#233
#233
Vercingetorix said:
Pointing to the sky to thank God for a play you just made on a football field is praying, right? (And if they're just "thanking God for their God-given talent," then why does nobody ever point to the sky after they get sacked or have a kicked blocked?)

I have no use for athletes or coaches who seem to believe that God cares about or influences what happens in a sporting event. Tebow crosses that line, IMO.
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I don't think he does. He just thanks God for the talents he has been given, imo. Also, God cares about everything. While the results may be insignificant, God's presence is there.
 
#235
#235
doozer said:
exactly, so if i have been given the choice, to choose for myself what i want to believe, and we both agree that a supreme being has given us that option, why then, is there a need to ram your faith down my throat?

i should be able to choose for myself outside of your influence right?
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No one is raming faith by having verses on eye black or simply sharing the gospel. Is knocking on someones door and talking to them for less than 5 minutes raming? How can someone chose to accept or reject Jesus without knowing who he is or what he did?
 
#236
#236
doozer said:
exactly, so if i have been given the choice, to choose for myself what i want to believe, and we both agree that a supreme being has given us that option, why then, is there a need to ram your faith down my throat?

i should be able to choose for myself outside of your influence right?
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1) I am not ramming any sort of religion down anyones throat

2) It is your choice, but with myself being a christian the bible commands christians to go out and preach unto the world. Problem is, most people mess that up. IMO, sitting on someones porch pleading with them for hours is not the way. Being "hollier than thou" isn't the way either. If someone chooses not to believe God and they turn out to be right, then we neither one of us loose anything. If christians turn out to be right, then there are alot of ppl going to be burning for a long time. I rather be safe than sorry. At the same time, accepting Christ shouldn't be just a "get out of jail free" card.
 
#237
#237
volfanbill said:
I don't think he does. He just thanks God for the talents he has been given, imo. Also, God cares about everything. While the results may be insignificant, God's presence is there.
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By "presence," do you mean that he influences what happens on a football field? Because a God who cared enough about a football game enough to affect it, but who was willing to stand by and watch, say, a tsunami kill 225,000 people would not be a God who deserved the worship of anybody.
 
#238
#238
Vercingetorix said:
By "presence," do you mean that he influences what happens on a football field? Because a God who cared enough about a football game enough to affect it, but who was willing to stand by and watch, say, a tsunami kill 225,000 people would not be a God who deserved the worship of anybody.
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our time on earth are just a mere part of our lives. Death is part of life here. It's all part of the cycle. How is standing by and letting a tsunami kill 225,000 people different than standing around and watching people suffer through and die from cancer?
 
#239
#239
Vercingetorix said:
By "presence," do you mean that he influences what happens on a football field? Because a God who cared enough about a football game enough to affect it, but who was willing to stand by and watch, say, a tsunami kill 225,000 people would not be a God who deserved the worship of anybody.
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God doesn't care about the result of the game, God cares about the hearts of the players on the field.God is all about his glory and Christians should be too. What would glorify God more...if a guy scored a TD and taunted another player, did a dance, or knelt in prayer?
 
#241
#241
Vercingetorix said:
Pointing to the sky to thank God for a play you just made on a football field is praying, right? (And if they're just "thanking God for their God-given talent," then why does nobody ever point to the sky after they get sacked or have a kicked blocked?)

I have no use for athletes or coaches who seem to believe that God cares about or influences what happens in a sporting event. Tebow crosses that line, IMO.
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Yea, I've wondered if Britton Colquitt pointed to the sky on any of his DUI arrests.
 
#242
#242
BigPapaVol said:
The hardcore proselytizing crowd has done more to hurt Christianity than any force in the history of man, IMO.
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Christianity, by definition, is an evangelical faith. Nowhere in Scripture are Christians told to keep quiet about their beliefs and not share with others. Its your choice to accept/believe or to ignore it altogether. Exercise that choice.
 
#243
#243
Mach5Vol said:
Everybody dies one way or another...this is no mystery or anomaly.
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exactly. Using the fact that God has people die on earth as the reason not to worship Him is a weak one. Because you die on earth, someone wouldn't accept their awards in Heaven and instead will be punished to Hell? Makes no sense to me.

I'm not saying you have to worship God as a Christian, Jew, Muslim or whatever, but we all die in some form or the other.
 
#244
#244
Vercingetorix said:
By "presence," do you mean that he influences what happens on a football field? Because a God who cared enough about a football game enough to affect it, but who was willing to stand by and watch, say, a tsunami kill 225,000 people would not be a God who deserved the worship of anybody.
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I don't think God influences football games and I'm a Christian. The fact is a Christian is on Christ's side, Christ isn't on a specific person's side.
 
#245
#245
JZVOL said:
Yea, I've wondered if Britton Colquitt pointed to the sky on any of his DUI arrests.
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I just wish Britton would check the scoreboard before doing that. He did that countless times this year because he punted about 10 times every game.
 
#246
#246
volfanbill said:
exactly. Using the fact that God has people die on earth as the reason not to worship Him is a weak one. Because you die on earth, someone wouldn't accept their awards in Heaven and instead will be punished to Hell? Makes no sense to me.

I'm not saying you have to worship God as a Christian, Jew, Muslim or whatever, but we all die in some form or the other.
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I agree. I think it's one of the most pathetic excuses for someone not to believe in God.
 
#247
#247
Mach5Vol said:
No one is raming faith by having verses on eye black or simply sharing the gospel. Is knocking on someones door and talking to them for less than 5 minutes raming? How can someone chose to accept or reject Jesus without knowing who he is or what he did?
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dantheman617 said:
1) I am not ramming any sort of religion down anyones throat

2) It is your choice, but with myself being a christian the bible commands christians to go out and preach unto the world. Problem is, most people mess that up. IMO, sitting on someones porch pleading with them for hours is not the way. Being "hollier than thou" isn't the way either. If someone chooses not to believe God and they turn out to be right, then we neither one of us loose anything. If christians turn out to be right, then there are alot of ppl going to be burning for a long time. I rather be safe than sorry. At the same time, accepting Christ shouldn't be just a "get out of jail free" card.
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i meant you in a figurative term, not a literal term.

when i want to hear about God's word, i go to church. i don't watch a football game.
 
#248
#248
volfanbill said:
our time on earth are just a mere part of our lives. Death is part of life here. It's all part of the cycle. How is standing by and letting a tsunami kill 225,000 people different than standing around and watching people suffer through and die from cancer?
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Death and suffering is clearly the Great Unknowable, and I don't seriously expect religion to be able to untangle it -- unless I'm being told that God is so intimately involved in what goes on here on earth that he influences which way a football bounces and whether a field goal is good. If he's messing around with the piddly little stuff, then he has to answer for the tsunami.
 
#249
#249
doozer said:
i meant you in a figurative term, not a literal term.

when i want to hear about God's word, i go to church. i don't watch a football game.
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Again, I'm a Christian but I tend to agree with you.

However the issue should be with the announcers and producers who choose to talk about and do pieces on Tebow.

I doubt Tebow calls and asks them to do pieces on him every Saturday.

TT also can't control what the guys in the booth choose to talk about while he's playing.

But they do it for the same reason Obama has been everywhere... it sells.
 
#250
#250
volfanbill said:
oh but they are...

you can't win for being a bad guy thug in athletics and you can't win for being a good guy Christian in athletics either for some.
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I know I don't have to tell you, they are speaking with hearts that cannot see beyond Florida colors. I hate Florida too, but I don't let it blind me.
 
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