I think I've found a reason to support Romney/Ryan in November

[PKT_VOL]

Let's throw a couple billion at researching making them permanently reversible. No kids until you request to have yourself unfixed. Oh wait, that reduces the current regime's voting pool also doesn't it.

I think just from a number's game, the government ought to pay for every woman to have birth control and every man to have condoms.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Quote One:



Quote Two:



Although you used a couple qualifier terms, you basically imply that men (as a whole) are incapable having a healthy, committed, and intellectual marriage. Probably not what you intended, but it came off that way.

I would say the use of "many" and "always" in the same sentence is definitely probably not what was meant either.

 

[volprof]

Quote One:



Quote Two:



Although you used a couple qualifier terms, you basically imply that men (as a whole) are incapable having a healthy, committed, and intellectual marriage. Probably not what you intended, but it came off that way.

I apologize if it came off that way; that wasn't what I meant to imply. Of course men aren't universally "goobified" in this country, although I do think it's a growing trend. I teach college age students, and the impression I generally get is that the female students are much more "with-it" in my class than their male counterparts. That's not to say, however, that some of my best students have not been male because they certainly have. And that's also not to say that the goobiness has not affected young females either. I blame it on Keeping up with the Kardashians. haha!

 

[82_VOL_83]

Could it be there is no more stigma attached to being on wellfare, being a single mom or a deadbeat dad? To me we as a country have become way too accepting. Now anything goes and those who disapprove of irresponsible behavior are labeled and ostracized.

As an old man, what you are talking about started with the wide acceptance of teen pregnancy as an "oh poor thing" situation instead of you F'd up and there are consequences. I noticed this happened between the time I was in HS and the very early 80's. JMO.

 

[volprof]

Well it's certainly not Prgressive, how dare you suggest that we do something the way it was always done just because it works!!!!

So we should marry out of economics instead of love, because I assure you that has been done traditionally much more than our "marriage out of romance and soul mate" concept that has only existed since the 1600s-onwards in the West? How many goats can a guy or gal's family provide another family by marrying off their daughters or sons sort of thing. We shifted from the economic marriage to one of romance, and now, perhaps our notion of family is changing again. Change...it happens sometimes.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I think just from a number's game, the government ought to pay for every woman to have birth control and every man to have condoms.

I was thinking more along the lines of something that could be performed as soon as they drop and then undone on request when the ability to be a functioning citizen was demonstrated. Fanciful I know, but a way of stopping baby daddy's and single parent households.

 

[82_VOL_83]

So we should marry out of economics instead of love, because I assure you that has been done traditionally much more than our "marriage out of romance and soul mate" concept that has only existed since the 1600s-onwards in the West? How many goats can a guy or gal's family provide another family by marrying off their daughters or sons sort of thing.

Remind me what we were talking about? 2 parent households vs single? Yet you talk about marriage which implies 2 parents. I'm confused....or maybe you are.

Your statement on demographics and middle class vs others is kind of self fulfilling don't you think?

 

[volprof]

Remind me what we were talking about? 2 parent households vs single? Yet you talk about marriage which implies 2 parents. I'm confused....or maybe you are.

You previously stated that we ought to do something the way it's always been done - that something being marriage. The fact is though that marriage has not always been done in the way we currently (or have) think of it in this country. I was simply saying that traditionally marriage was more motivated out of economics rather than love, romance, or soul-mates, which is what we tend to think of it today.

Your statement on demographics and middle class vs others is kind of self fulfilling don't you think?

Horatio Alger?

.

 

[82_VOL_83]

So we should marry out of economics instead of love, because I assure you that has been done traditionally much more than our "marriage out of romance and soul mate" concept that has only existed since the 1600s-onwards in the West? How many goats can a guy or gal's family provide another family by marrying off their daughters or sons sort of thing. We shifted from the economic marriage to one of romance, and now, perhaps my notion of family is changing again. Change...it happens sometimes and sometimes it sucks.

fyp

 

[theFallGuy]

The Economists Get It - By James Carter - The Corner - National Review Online

 

[hog88]

As an old man, what you are talking about started with the wide acceptance of teen pregnancy as an "oh poor thing" situation instead of you F'd up and there are consequences. I noticed this happened between the time I was in HS and the very early 80's. JMO.

As a HS kid in the 80's getting a girl pregnant was my biggest fear. Outside of Bigfoot.....

 

[82_VOL_83]

As a HS kid in the 80's getting a girl pregnant was my biggest fear. Outside of Bigfoot.....

or my dad......oh sorry, I apologize for coming from one of those traditional families that wasn't dysfunctional. BTW, my wife and I celebrate our 28th next Thursday....and I apologize for us not being dysfunctional also.

 

[PKT_VOL]

I apologize if it came off that way; that wasn't what I meant to imply. Of course men aren't universally "goobified" in this country, although I do think it's a growing trend. I teach college age students, and the impression I generally get is that the female students are much more "with-it" in my class than their male counterparts. That's not to say, however, that some of my best students have not been male because they certainly have. And that's also not to say that the goobiness has not affected young females either. I blame it on Keeping up with the Kardashians. haha!

That was my experience as well. Females would run circles around their male counterparts in the classroom. It was true with just about every class except for philosophy.

 

[PKT_VOL]

I was thinking more along the lines of something that could be performed as soon as they drop and then undone on request when the ability to be a functioning citizen was demonstrated. Fanciful I know, but a way of stopping baby daddy's and single parent households.

Yeah, in an ideal world.

 

[volprof]

or my dad......oh sorry, I apologize for coming from one of those traditional families that wasn't dysfunctional. BTW, my wife and I celebrate our 28th next Thursday....and I apologize for us not being dysfunctional also.

Congratulations to you and your wife! And I mean that in all sincerity. My parents celebrated their 30th anniversary back in May. Believe me, I like the idea of a two-parent, fully functional family. My parents provided me with that, and I intend on starting one myself within the next few years hopefully. I'm just saying that our notion of what constitutes the grounds of a traditional marriage/family has never been stable (in the course of all of human history, even the course of Western history), it is changing again, and we might as well just get used to it whether we like it or not because it's not going back for better or for worse.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Congratulations to you and your wife! And I mean that in all sincerity. My parents celebrated their 30th anniversary back in May. Believe me, I like the idea of a two-parent, fully functional family. My parents provided me with that, and I intend on starting one myself within the next few years hopefully. I'm just saying that our notion of what constitutes the grounds of a traditional marriage/family has never been stable (in the course of all of human history, even the course of Western history), it is changing again, and we might as well just get used to it whether we like it or not because it's not going back for better or for worse.

Did you take your birthday or age out of your profile? I thought you were listed as being 21. Maybe I have you confused with another poster. Not being critical, but at my age and after having paid as much income tax as my wife and I have, I don't think I should have to get used to anything I don't want to. This is not an age dig, it is an experience dig. When I was young, I thought I had a pretty good idea of how the world and society worked and should work. Now the only thing I know is that I don't know.

One of the biggest issues that our government from local to federal just doesn't understand is that you can legislate tolerance, but you can't legislate acceptance.

 

[hog88]

or my dad......oh sorry, I apologize for coming from one of those traditional families that wasn't dysfunctional. BTW, my wife and I celebrate our 28th next Thursday....and I apologize for us not being dysfunctional also.

What??? I think we got our wires crossed here. My parents will be married 44 years here shortly and me and my wife 20. I'll be danged if I apologize for being traditional.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Yeah, because men are never the source of broken homes. Got it.

Women wouldn't get pregnant if they wouldn't open their legs. Outside of rape, men have to be allowed to enter a woman. Women have the responsibility to make better choices.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

No, but it's awfully intrusive from a governmental standpoint to mandate it. That said, I agree in principle.

How would the govt be mandating it? They are just suggesting not rewarding bad behavior financially... not mandating good behavior.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I think just from a number's game, the government ought to pay for every woman to have birth control and every man to have condoms.

The govt already gives away plenty of birth control. Plus, you are creating a bogus argument that money is keeping poor people from buying condoms/birth control. Yet, they have enough money for weave, nails, rims, radios, big screen TV's, cable television, alcohol, reefer, etc...

Yeah, I went there...

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I apologize if it came off that way; that wasn't what I meant to imply. Of course men aren't universally "goobified" in this country, although I do think it's a growing trend. I teach college age students, and the impression I generally get is that the female students are much more "with-it" in my class than their male counterparts. That's not to say, however, that some of my best students have not been male because they certainly have. And that's also not to say that the goobiness has not affected young females either. I blame it on Keeping up with the Kardashians. haha!

You judge a tree by its fruit. If you are complaining about the crop of men that are out there, maybe you need to look at the type of environment that created them. In the black community, the majority of boys/men today are raised in single female headed households. So instead of having a male role model in their home everyday, they have an emotional, illogical woman raising them to be overgrown mommas boys. And to be honest, this single woman lead household epidemic is starting to tear away at the white community, also. I see the samethings occuring in the white community now that I saw in the black community 20-25 years ago. It used to be a stigma attatched to out-of-wedlock births. Now, no one seems to pay it any mind. If you remove the incentives and bring back the stigma, you solve a lot of this country's problems within 2 generations.

 

[volprof]

Did you take your birthday or age out of your profile? I thought you were listed as being 21. Maybe I have you confused with another poster. Not being critical, but at my age and after having paid as much income tax as my wife and I have, I don't think I should have to get used to anything I don't want to. This is not an age dig, it is an experience dig. When I was young, I thought I had a pretty good idea of how the world and society worked and should work. Now the only thing I know is that I don't know.

One of the biggest issues that our government from local to federal just doesn't understand is that you can legislate tolerance, but you can't legislate acceptance.

I'm 27. And I agree with you that the more I learn the less I feel like I know about the world. I will say this, though, I used to think a lot differently about the world than I do today, particularly when it came time to how other people lived their lives. This was due, in large part, to my social upbringing. That cost me a lot of worry, grief, and anguish about things I simply had no control over and things that simply weren't going to go away no matter what I did. This is not to say that anyone should idly sit by and not defend what they believe in, but it is to say, in my opinion, that when it comes time to what other people do with themselves, we might as well just move on and get on with it. It's fine to disagree with that though if anyone chooses.

 

[volprof]

You judge a tree by its fruit. If you are complaining about the crop of men that are out there, maybe you need to look at the type of environment that created them. In the black community, the majority of boys/men today are raised in single female headed households. So instead of having a male role model in their home everyday, they have an emotional, illogical woman raising them to be overgrown mommas boys. And to be honest, this single woman lead household epidemic is starting to tear away at the white community, also. I see the samethings occuring in the white community now that I saw in the black community 20-25 years ago. It used to be a stigma attatched to out-of-wedlock births. Now, no one seems to pay it any mind. If you remove the incentives and bring back the stigma, you solve a lot of this country's problems within 2 generations.

So, by this logic, all of America's ills can be traced back to our black citizens and communities?

 

[OrangeYankee]

Whenever this debate comes up it always kills me when people talk as if the traditional two parent home is a pipe dream. Yes, a PERFECT traditional two parent home is pretty much hard to get. But we are so friggin whimpy we buckle in the face of conflict almost every time, especially in interpersonal relationships. Are there wife beaters, and sleaze balls who sleep around? Yep but honestly I think if there wasn't such a giant incentive for people to live so irresponsibly for the sake of the "chilren" you'd see things vastly shape up.

LG stated something about 1950's puritans. Let me ask you this how are things any better for society as a whole since the bras were burnt in the 60's? Because frankly I think we are in a much crappier world now then it was then. I understand there were some bad relationships back then, so please spare me the wild examples of wife beaters etc. The few do not make up the whole.

 

[volprof]

Whenever this debate comes up it always kills me when people talk as if the traditional two parent home is a pipe dream. Yes, a PERFECT traditional two parent home is pretty much hard to get. But we are so friggin whimpy we buckle in the face of conflict almost every time, especially in interpersonal relationships. Are there wife beaters, and sleaze balls who sleep around? Yep but honestly I think if there wasn't such a giant incentive for people to live so irresponsibly for the sake of the "chilren" you'd see things vastly shape up.

I would like for you to explain that statement a little further.

LG stated something about 1950's puritans. Let me ask you this how are things any better for society as a whole since the bras were burnt in the 60's? Because frankly I think we are in a much crappier world now then it was then. I understand there were some bad relationships back then, so please spare me the wild examples of wife beaters etc. The few do not make up the whole.

While I agree with you that there are some things enviable about the 1950s, say, there are numerous things to despise in that decade as well. For a comparison:

1950s - more fear of nuclear war and annihilation, more subjugation of racial/ethnic minorities and women, more subjugation of homosexuals, more subjugation of religious minorities and atheists/agnostics, more subjugation of political dissidents, etc.; less reports of domestic abuse due to social stigmas (not because they didn't happen but because the stigma of reporting them was stronger and because our legal system was less likely to care even if these incidents did occur), less legal routes for minorities to vote and share a voice in the decisions that also affected their lives, less opportunities for women to support themselves or find a life beyond simply raising children, etc.

.