I think I've found a reason to support Romney/Ryan in November

#102
#102
utvolpj said:
actually doesn't seem too difficult IMO
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Ever told a lie?
Ever stolen anything?
Ever talked bad about someone behind their back?
Ever fudged your taxes just a little bit?
Ever driven your car to fast, or while taking cough meds?

Ever done any of this just once?
 
#103
#103
orangeslice13 said:
Ever told a lie?
Ever stolen anything?
Ever talked bad about someone behind their back?
Ever fudged your taxes just a little bit?
Ever driven your car to fast, or while taking cough meds?

Ever done any of this just once?
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maybe you missed the point.
 
#104
#104
orangeslice13 said:
Ever told a lie? Not to the point of harm (as he listed)
Ever stolen anything? Not since I was about 7yo and I felt so bad I turned myself in
Ever talked bad about someone behind their back? If I have something to say I tell them
Ever fudged your taxes just a little bit? No
Ever driven your car to fast, or while taking cough meds? Doesn't fit in anything he listed

Ever done any of this just once?
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doing it once does not make someone a bad person. Doing it over and over yet expecting some supreme being to absolve you of all responsibility is worse. I answer to myself and those around me
 
#105
#105
utvolpj said:
doing it once does not make someone a bad person. Doing it over and over yet expecting some supreme being to absolve you of all responsibility is worse. I answer to myself and those around me
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So taking the totality of your life and adding up you violation, the ones only you know about, and put them before a judge with the good person standard.
how do you think you would do?






" Doing it over and over yet expecting some supreme being to absolve you of all responsibility is worse."




Your point is slightly off as we are saying both believers and non believers are doing their best to be "good". The difference being is that good enough?
 
#106
#106
utvolpj said:
doing it once does not make someone a bad person. Doing it over and over yet expecting some supreme being to absolve you of all responsibility is worse. I answer to myself and those around me
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Robbery of 1 bank makes me a bank robber.
Killing 1 person in anger makes me a murderer.
one lie makes me a liar.
 
#107
#107
orangeslice13 said:
So taking the totality of your life and adding up you violation, the ones only you know about, and put them before a judge with the good person standard.
how do you think you would do?
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definitely better than most

orangeslice13 said:
Your point is slightly off as we are saying both believers and non believers are doing their best to be "good". The difference being is that good enough?
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good enough for whom? Personally, I answer only to myself. In the event I have to answer to another I am satisfied I could hold my own

orangeslice13 said:
Robbery of 1 bank makes me a bank robber.
Killing 1 person in anger makes me a murderer.
one lie makes me a liar.
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only by your definition
 
#110
#110
orangeslice13 said:
How would you define someone who kills, robs a bank, or lies?
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the act of killing does not make one a murderer. The act of one lie does not label someone a liar for life.

to answer your question, yes there are good people who have committed these acts. However they are not good people because they prayed for forgiveness and assumed it was granted. They become good people for their future acts
 
#111
#111
utvolpj said:
the act of killing does not make one a murderer. The act of one lie does not label someone a liar for life.

to answer your question, yes there are good people who have committed these acts. However they are not good people because they prayed for forgiveness and assumed it was granted. They become good people for their future acts
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Look at that, we agree.
Recognition of the flawed individual I am, bowing to the will of my creator, and doing everything in my power to behave in the best possible manner while knowing I will probably make more mistakes does not free me from punishment here. Just in the next life.

Ultimately each person has to make that choice for themselves
 
#112
#112
orangeslice13 said:
Look at that, we agree.
Recognition of the flawed individual I am, bowing to the will of my creator, and doing everything in my power to behave in the best possible manner while knowing I will probably make more mistakes does not free me from punishment here. Just in the next life.

Ultimately each person has to make that choice for themselves
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we agree except for why we do it. I don't act the way I do for fear of being judged later by someone else. I do it because that's the way I've chosen to live and the example I want to set for others. Never claimed to have always lived a life without "sin" but can say I do a decent job now. That is a personal choice and separate from any fear of judgement
 
#114
#114
utvolpj said:
we agree except for why we do it. I don't act the way I do for fear of being judged later by someone else. I do it because that's the way I've chosen to live and the example I want to set for others. Never claimed to have always lived a life without "sin" but can say I do a decent job now. That is a personal choice and separate from any fear of judgement
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+1
 
#118
#118
KoachKrab127 said:
I disagree. I am not a religious person for a couple of reasons.

The main reason is that according to Christians, all you have to do is pray for forgiveness and God will give it to you. You are not held accountable for your actions. If you sin, but then pray for forgiveness, you go to Heaven anyway. God doesn't think you should be punished as long as you pray.


The idea behind Christianity is that you can do whatever you want as long as you pray for forgiveness. I expect more out of people. And I also expect them to be understanding when others are put in similar situations, yet I see more hypocrisy than goodwill in religion.
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You see what you want to see I would guess. Also, not sure where you get your idea of Christianity. I certainly don't walk around thinking it is ok to perform any behavior I want with the idea that I can pray for forgiveness and all is good. Sure I believe in forgiveness but you can't walk around with an evil heart using forgiveness as some get out of jail free card.
 
#120
#120
KoachKrab127 said:
There's no way you can possibly believe that teen pregnancy or early adulthood pregnancy out of wedlock is just as difficult on the man as it is the woman.

It is much more difficult on the woman. If you look at the situation in depth, you'd understand. The woman has to carry the baby for 9 months. The woman cannot run away, but the man can. And it happens quite often.

If a woman gives birth to a child and the man runs away...yeah! The dude is a bad guy! That is when society calls the father a bad guy...when he runs away.

The problem is, the woman gets all the blame to her face, the man doesn't. There's no evidence (short of a DNA test) that a man got a woman pregnant.

Guys don't have to carry babies in their stomachs. Guys don't have to make sure they eat healthy, avoid caffeine, avoid drinking, smoking, etc. Guys don't have to go to the doctor every month to prevent problems. Guys aren't judged when people look at their stomachs.

Guys have it easy. They have all the fun and the girl does all the work.

This is coming from a guy who got a girl pregnant. I was 22, she was 21. People were constantly giving her the evil eye anytime she went somewhere in public just because she looked young. She was lucky to have me, a guy who made a commitment for her and the baby. We are now successful, married, and have a beautiful 5 year old. Not all girls/women get that.

To blame the woman and say the guy is the victim is just complete ignorance.
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Your age and lack of experience shows in your post. Thank you for the biology lesson. You need to reread my post and try to understand it. Then wake up and smell the reality of the world we live in.
 
#122
#122
allvol123 said:
Ok. So that means one failed, that does mean the idea is incorrect. I can't imagine a good argument for not being closely involved with a good community or church. It really makes no sense to me.
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Wrong again. Many fail.
I am not making an argument to not be involved in a good community or church.
The world would be a better place if everyone were involved in a good church and community programs.
Those program are good and do help in some situations but not all.
They will not keep an enraged drunk from finding his wife and give her a beating.

Do a little research. There are several cases where the woman had a restraining order or order of protection in place to no avail.

As in most programs, the system fails at times.
 
#123
#123
Gramps said:
Wrong again. Many fail.
I am not making an argument to not be involved in a good community or church.
The world would be a better place if everyone were involved in a good church and community programs.
Those program are good and do help in some situations but not all.
They will not keep an enraged drunk from finding his wife and give her a beating.

Do a little research. There are several cases where the woman had a restraining order or order of protection in place to no avail.

As in most programs, the system fails at times.
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Thus the importance of the word "good." if it fails that much, then it must not be "good."

Nothing is perfect. I'll take my chances with avenues I choose and cultivate verses government contrived ones.
 
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#124
#124
allvol123 said:
Thus the importance of the word "good." if it fails that much, then it must not be "good."

Nothing is perfect. I'll take my chances with avenues I choose and cultivate verses government contrived ones.
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This is a topic we are going to have to agree to disagree on.
 
#125
#125
NYT article from a few days ago...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/opinion/sunday/in-defense-of-single-motherhood.html?pagewanted=all

The writer waits until the last paragraph to reach what we already know... The problem isn't too many single mothers. It's not enough worker drones to keep the system afloat.

Attention should be paid to the serious underlying economic inequities, without the colorful surface distraction of concerned or judgmental prurience. Let’s abandon the fundamentally frothy question of who is wearing a ring. Young men need jobs so they can pay child support and contribute more meaningfully to the households they are living in. The real menace to America’s children is not single mothers, or unmarried or gay parents, but an economy that stokes an unconscionable divide between the rich and the not rich.
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