If Barnes retires when ZZ is done ......

#230
#230
VolGee4 said:
As an attorney, the charges being dismissed are great for him in the justice system. But it absolutely can be used by employers to determine someone’s character and whether or not they are fit to be employed.
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I never said they couldn't consider it. I said someone doesn't have the right to say you are necessarily guilty of a charge if it was never proven in a court of law.
Moreover, it shouldn't necessarily exclude you from hiring in regards (which is why Ole Miss had no problems hiring Beard) .
Most states are "at-will" states, so they can hire or fire you for any non-discrimatory reason they want.
Incidentally, discriminating someone solely on the basis of a dropped criminal charge could be an FCRA violation depending on the state you live in.
This is why most of the time an employer that doesn't want you because of a dropped/dismissed charge will chalk up not hiring you to some other reason.
 
#233
#233
Anti-shunshinepumper said:
I never said they couldn't consider it. I said someone doesn't have the right to say you are necessarily guilty of a charge if it was never proven in a court of law.
Moreover, it shouldn't necessarily exclude you from hiring in regards (which is why Ole Miss had no problems hiring Beard) .
Most states are "at-will" states, so they can hire or fire you for any non-discrimatory reason they want.
Incidentally, discriminating someone solely on the basis of a dropped criminal charge could be an FCRA violation depending on the state you live in.
This is why most of the time an employer that doesn't want you because of a dropped/dismissed charge will chalk up not hiring you to some other reason.
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I think some of this discussion is in circles. We are talking employment. There is no “right” to say one thing or another, and having a case dismissed doesn’t mean an employer has to consider you. People are terminated or not hired for mere allegations all of the time.
 
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#235
#235
VolGee4 said:
I think some of this discussion is in circles. We are talking employment. There is no “right” to say one thing or another, and having a case dismissed doesn’t mean an employer has to consider you. People are terminated or not hired for mere allegations all of the time.
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Also, a person who has a case dismissed isn't necessarily "innocent". The bottom line is that when Barnes decides to retire, neither Beard nor Pearl are getting anywhere near this job
 
#236
#236
BernardKingGOAT said:
Also, a person who has a case dismissed isn't necessarily "innocent". The bottom line is that when Barnes decides to retire, neither Beard nor Pearl are getting anywhere near this job
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The standard for employment at most places is going to be higher than a court of law. Most employers will fire you upon learning you were arrested for DV even if you are eventually acquitted or the charges are dropped.
 
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#237
#237
87Vol said:
Charges dropped doesn’t mean guilt either. In this country, a person is presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. I guess you don’t believe in that principle.
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Like "Freedom of Speech", "innocent until proven guilty" means by the government. That doesn't mean employers have to hire, or even consider, someone who has gone through that situation.
 
#239
#239
VolGee4 said:
I think some of this discussion is in circles. We are talking employment. There is no “right” to say one thing or another, and having a case dismissed doesn’t mean an employer has to consider you. People are terminated or not hired for mere allegations all of the time.
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TN is an At-will state so is outside of contracts. You can fire employees for any reason. Now if you are dumb enough to fire someone for something that could be seen as discriminatory and are dumb enough to make it known... you have problems. The lovely thing about it is, people that do fire people for such reasons are rarely smart enough to do it on the cool they have to make a point. Brag/complain to someone or announce it on social media. If you're gonna fire me for my race or religion don't telegraph it and let me start gathering evidence. just figured I'd give some advice to the buttholes out there.
 
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#242
#242
VolGee4 said:
I think some of this discussion is in circles. We are talking employment. There is no “right” to say one thing or another, and having a case dismissed doesn’t mean an employer has to consider you. People are terminated or not hired for mere allegations all of the time.
Click to expand...

I agree about the circles/strawmen.
I have never said they have HAVE to consider you (or even consider you like any allegations aren't true) for employment, but that it doesn't necessarily exclude you from being employed like a necessary conviction might exclude you.
When I said " right", I wasn't necessarily referring to legal authority.
Having said that, you can bet your sweet behind that you have to legally watch out necessarily saying someone is guilty of something they have not been convicted of. If you don't, you can open yourself up to a defamation lawsuit. It's why reporters on t.v say " allegedly " in respect. You're a lawyer, so I'm sure you are aware of this.

Ole Miss ended up hiring Beard, but if they hadn't and then released a statement like " we didn't hire Chris Beard because he beats his wife/ is a wife beater" then they would be wide open for a defamation lawsuit and maybe discrimination case depending on the state and circumstances. In reality, it's entirely possible (in this hypothetical scenario) they didn’t hire Chris because they believed the allegations to be true.

Again, so there is no confusion, I am wholly aware that an employer can still consider any allegations against you when hiring or firing you.
Albeit it, there are some nuances to this.
 
#243
#243
Stoerner Fumbles said:
It’s the wrong timing for the retirement thread and it’s Barnes’ call when he wants to make it, not ours. I can say we better relish the time we have because many close to him feel like he won’t be here much longer. I hope they approve the additional year rule. It seems likely. I can see him staying another year with ZZ, and then cashing in his chips. I can also see him leaving after this year. I’d say it’s highly unlikely he’s here for more than another season or two at the outer limit. We absolutely will not hire Pearl or Beard, or any coach with baggage. I do not see us hiring another SEC coach, nor do we have the firepower to bring in a “proven” major coach. Sorry. DW has a great track record of finding undervalued talent. I’m sure that’ll be the road. He is close with Smart, and that’s definitely the right type of target if we want someone who has grown into a mature presence. He’s still young, and outside the Texas debacle he’s a 74% winning coach. Right now, I hope this team can itself again and pick up some more hard wins. With the right matchups, I still think we can make a run.
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🎯 I agree it’s the wrong time… it’s always the wrong time until we know he’s hanging it up for sure. I just keep waking up in Rome so, speaking for myself only, followed the crowd at chow time. I unusually avoid conversations because I’m more than a little superstitious if for nothing else, and don’t want to contribute. lol But I did, so I’ll own it.

Again speaking for myself only, I’m not just ecstatic about what Barnes has done for this program, but praying he gets at least as far as he’s ever gotten while here as well. The kind of story that has The End. GB🍊
 
#244
#244
pimo1 said:
TN is an At-will state so is outside of contracts. You can fire employees for any reason. Now if you are dumb enough to fire someone for something that could be seen as discriminatory and are dumb enough to make it known... you have problems. The lovely thing about it is, people that do fire people for such reasons are rarely smart enough to do it on the cool they have to make a point. Brag/complain to someone or announce it on social media. If you're gonna fire me for my race or religion don't telegraph it and let me start gathering evidence. just figured I'd give some advice to the buttholes out there.
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Thanks, Cliff Claven.
 
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#247
#247
pimo1 said:
TN is an At-will state so is outside of contracts. You can fire employees for any reason. Now if you are dumb enough to fire someone for something that could be seen as discriminatory and are dumb enough to make it known... you have problems. The lovely thing about it is, people that do fire people for such reasons are rarely smart enough to do it on the cool they have to make a point. Brag/complain to someone or announce it on social media. If you're gonna fire me for my race or religion don't telegraph it and let me start gathering evidence. just figured I'd give some advice to the buttholes out there.
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That's true, BUT in the rare occasions that someone is fired for no cause, and just because, the separation generally comes with some sort of severance, especially if it's a reputable company. Lots of settlements have been paid out by Tennessee employers after the fact if no reason was given. Especially for the "insubordination" claim without adequate documentation for it
 
#249
#249
BernardKingGOAT said:
That's true, BUT in the rare occasions that someone is fired for no cause, and just because, the separation generally comes with some sort of severance, especially if it's a reputable company. Lots of settlements have been paid out by Tennessee employers after the fact if no reason was given. Especially for the "insubordination" claim without adequate documentation for it
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Very true its a way to avoid bad blood. I went through a severance situation during covid. I was laid off during covid then a few days later, HR contacted me and is we are gonna give you 9 months of full pay as severance. I already had a situation in place. not a place I wanted to work perse and I didn't really have hard feelings to my former employer. but had they not paid me severance and I ended up taking this other job I had lined up that I didn't really want maybe I change my mind and take some legal action? Because they gave me severance, I was able to take a chance on a 'lesser' position at a smaller company that couldn't afford a big salary and by the time those 9 months were up I was already on track to be ahead of where I'd left off.

Severance is insurance basically. It greatly decreases the chances you might take some legal action or have super sour grapes. Even if you do turn around and buck later the fact they gave you severance puts them in a more positive light. 9/10 the person that is super big mad will refuse the severance. Its a genius move business-wise. No matter what your salary is, them paying you out 6-12 months of it will cost them immensely less than if you take legal action even if they do win. In fact the more you make the more they save by doing it. I am no expert, but usually severance pay is something restricted to contract employees right? I know there are probably instances of it happening outside of that but you'd think it would be very rare?
 
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